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Author Topic: Druidic Magic: Any thoughts?  (Read 39951 times)
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Pikel
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« Reply #60 on: 25 November 2005, 17:53:00 »

About the black druids, Oh ok...will be integrated.

about the love thing and multiple orders, won't be forgetting. will be diting soon.

As for the  Idea of special abilities for all orders....interesting...I shall see what i can cook up.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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Pikel
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« Reply #61 on: 25 November 2005, 18:07:00 »

AS to the special abilities, they will all end in death, including the fire dance.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #62 on: 25 November 2005, 19:18:00 »

'Well, that could be a solution. You become fire, but 'burn up' in the process.

Maybe it lets them become the element, but they can't return as they loose their sentient side (thus control)? Plant guy becoming a tree, fire guy becoming a flame...

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Pikel
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« Reply #63 on: 26 November 2005, 13:32:00 »

I took out the paragraph concerning the joining for two orders because that seemed like something that should be put int he druidicv orders entry, so thats where it is.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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Pikel
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« Reply #64 on: 30 November 2005, 21:38:00 »

AS the title says, ready for comments.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #65 on: 01 December 2005, 16:32:00 »

Okay, I shall go trough and comment. Also, I have few comments to add, it seems, and that's a good thing.

Quote:
Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and gravity took over, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay. However, for the most part, druids believe this only to be a fairy tale.


Gravity should be avoided. As in, the word.

Quote:
Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice


Not water? Movable ice is hard to do, you know, it's solid.

Quote:
Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for tree days.


Three days, I suppose. This is unclear, however  - if they use them less than three days, can they survive? Clear it up - not by just adding one sentence, but by rephrasing this point.

I have no further comments, but a question for Talia, perhaps, and also for you: Would druid ethics and such go here? You speak of protecting natur,e but in by-sentences, also of the taboo on tinkering with sentience, and so on.

Talia should look this over about "is this complete, and if not, why not".

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Pikel
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« Reply #66 on: 01 December 2005, 22:24:00 »

Gravity shall be avoided

Yes Ice....it is hard, but it is moveable (due to magic)....it was supposed to tie into the rock sentence right before it kinda...but it failed. will rephrase

will rephrase the three days thing....they have no choice as to the three days...they are like that for three days then they die. a cool explanation for this i just came up with while writing this post shall be incorporated.

thanks for the comments

EDIT: Entry = Edited




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 12/1/05 5:44
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #67 on: 02 December 2005, 07:11:00 »

I will try hard to get to your two submissions today -at least to one to give you something to do!! *sigh*

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« Reply #68 on: 07 December 2005, 10:33:00 »

 


Druidic magic is based on their belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their essence with that of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millennia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in its ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in its ways, and thus easier to merge with.

From your druids entry I had the impression, thy do the merger out of „fun“ as well, so without wanting to change something - is this so, or are they only doing it on purpose, when they want to achieve something with it.

Abilities: Once the merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he wants to change are one. The druid then has the chance to change what he wants. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes.

 This is a bit too vague and could be expressed in a shorter way. Give an example how you imagine it. Although there are limits. The druid must also maintain his meditation while performing what he wants to perform.
This is unclear phrased. I think you mean:
Although there are limits.The main problem (task, requirement?)is to maintain his mediation while performing what he has in mind (try to avoid repetitions please, this makes a text easier to read and understand)
If his concentration is broken, than the merger is also broken, and any control over his element is lost. Beyond that, the druid’s limits are few. He can change anything about the essence, as long as it remains based on the same category. Example: an Ithild druid can do anything he wants to an animal, except give it sentience, because that would change it from an animal based essence, to a sentient being based essence.
 „anything“ is a bit far fetched and would surely exceed the limits of this world compared with what other magical systems are able to do. You could add a „principally“, but again, be a bit more conctrete and give some examples

Druids, with the exception of Nor’sidian, and White druids, also have the ability to physically merge with their element.
Why is there a difference? If a animal druid can merge with a beast, why not a black druid with his victim? Where is there the basic difference? a black druid can overtake his victims mind completely, if I understood you right, so why should it not be possible?
Same with the wind druids - if fire druids can become flame - why can‘t wind druids wind? Is there a general difference in the essence?


In Styruine Druids, this produces the Kroi’lon, or war dryad, a gigantic half man, half tree being. Please rephrase it so that it becomes more readableIn Red druids this produces the phenomenon known as the firedance. The Druids body is completely turned to flame, but retains its humanoid shape. See discussion in ordersIthild Druids can merge with an animal of their choosing. This often makes for interesting, often bizarre and horrific, transformations. Examples! The Brown druids can merge with the earth, making the Sfomm-Kereen, or stone baby, who have bodies of moveable rock, not unlike a golem. Stone baby is a misleading name although, for considering the Somm-kereen's size, very few of the people of Caelereth would consider it a 'baby'.  Tell some more about these, what are they doing? lying around? Walking? for what purpose? Similar to the Brown Druids, the Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice, again, not unlike a sentient golem. Ice is a special fornm of water - why not with water - ice is a very special thing, maybe even the essence is slightly different, add some more here, there is so much room for imagination! The druids all retain their sense of self, and their intelligence during these transformations. These transformations last for three days, always, in every case? Who has documented this, how is it known? and they cannot revert back during those three days, for that would require changing one's own essence, which is not only tabooed, it is thought to be impossible. Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for three days. Thus they are only used in a last desperate attempt to protect nature. Considering how formidable these transformations are, the attempt often works.
 I don‘t understand, why they can‘t reverse the merging, it works in a ess intense stae as well - what is the difference?

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. Thus, if an inexperienced druid is added to the task, the task will get done faster, but not nearly as fast as if an experienced druid was there, for experience is another factor. An experienced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how often a druid has merged with a particular essence, the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.
Do the druids merge with each other in these cases, are they touching the minds of each other somehow, how do they know, what the other has in mind or wants to achieve? How do they communicate during these combined mergers if at all?

Limitations: It should be noted here, that druids are not able to change their own essences, for they have nothing to merge with. Not only that, one would have to be a Nor’sidian druid to do it (for changing oneself would usually mean changing a sentient being essence, unless one is less than sentient) and thus, there is a taboo on even trying to tinker with one’s own essence. There are stories of the elven Nor’sidian druid, Mehán’chón, who figured out how to change his own essence. The stories say he made himself grow wings, and jumped off a cliff to learn how try them out. Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay, he remade acquaintanceship with the ground much sooner than he originally intended. However, for the most part, druids believe the story of Mehán’chón to be only a fairy tale.

It should be made clear that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in a fight. Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role. Druids are capable of creating smaller effects; it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.
ow would the firedruid achieve this? does he need a fire to merge with first? why not just putting a normal fire to the tree?

Training: Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training, one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that are required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of mass amounts of time meditating, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. Nor’sidian druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, and then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. They are able to do this because they already know the basics of merging with essences, even though they know not how to merge with a sentient one. Thus it takes much longer to learn to become a Nor’sidian druid than any other druid. Nor’sidian druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on Nor’sidian druidism. Thus, there are very few Nor’sidian druids in the world.
 I would like to know, how a druid of one of the six orders comes to be a black druid - what gives him the idea? I think, not much is known about them in the druidic orders themselves - so you have to get the idea first, that you want to be one.

Essences: All things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, so to does it's material counterpart. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. Example, A human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as it's counterpart, but like it's counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their counterparts are, but the essences are still earth based.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to Influence the essence of the other object, thus changing it's make-up. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow , and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Sentient essences recognize that an essence is trying to merge with it, and resists. Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.


 What you have so far isa good idea and  generally ok . What still is lacking a bit is the general layout, an introductuion, writing parts in a more relative way. I will try to set up a template for stuff of this kind as soon as posible, then you can adjust your entry to it and I will make some proposals to it as well. But apart from this there are some other things to mend or consider as well. Till then! :)

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Pikel
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« Reply #69 on: 10 December 2005, 22:53:00 »

Quote:
From your druids entry I had the impression, thy do the merger out of „fun“ as well, so without wanting to change something - is this so, or are they only doing it on purpose, when they want to achieve something with it.


This has been removed from the Druidic orders entry, for it now seems nonsensical to me.

Quote:
„anything“ is a bit far fetched and would surely exceed the limits of this world compared with what other magical systems are able to do. You could add a „principally“, but again, be a bit more conctrete and give some examples


I have talked to A few magic experts (Mina and silfer) and they see nothing wrong with how far druids can go with their magic...considering how long it usually takes.

Quote:
Tell some more about these, what are they doing? lying around? Walking? for what purpose?


the purpose of all the transformations is in that paragraph...at the bottom to be precise.

Quote:
Why is there a difference? If a animal druid can merge with a beast, why not a black druid with his victim? Where is there the basic difference? a black druid can overtake his victims mind completely, if I understood you right, so why should it not be possible?


Will explain better in teh entry....It is for lack of inclination, as opposed to ability....Wind druids do not care enough to do defend a certain area, and black druids do not love sentient beings enough to do it.

Quote:
Ice is a special fornm of water - why not with water - ice is a very special thing, maybe even the essence is slightly different, add some more here, there is so much room for imagination!


Ice is a form of water, thus it is water based. It has an Ice essence, as opposed to a water essence, but both of those are water based. so both would beunder the domain of blue druids. I figured ice was mroe formidale than water, so i decided to go with Ice as opposed to water with teh transformation.

Quote:
always, in every case? Who has documented this, how is it known?


Explained in entry

Quote:
Do the druids merge with each other in these cases, are they touching the minds of each other somehow, how do they know, what the other has in mind or wants to achieve? How do they communicate during these combined mergers if at all?


The druids are not merging with eachother, for that is black druidism. They know what they want to perform, for before they start, they tell eachother what they want to go down. multiple people merging with one essence for the same effect makes the merger go that much faster.

Quote:
I don‘t understand, why they can‘t reverse the merging, it works in a ess intense stae as well - what is the difference?


Was explained in a different part of the entry, made it mroe clear

Quote:
ow would the firedruid achieve this? does he need a fire to merge with first? why not just putting a normal fire to the tree?


he could do all those things....i was just using the axe as an example.

Quote:
I would like to know, how a druid of one of the six orders comes to be a black druid - what gives him the idea? I think, not much is known about them in the druidic orders themselves - so you have to get the idea first, that you want to be one.


explained in teh newly edited druidic orders

AS for the firedance issue.....i do not see a probelm....they merely become very much like a sentient Fire elemental....see here




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #70 on: 11 December 2005, 13:09:00 »

As for the "druids can do anything" - Well, yes, just a Ximaxian fire mage of sufficient level can do anything with a fire/with fire car'all. However, a) Some things are harder than others, b)There is a reason Ximax has spells, and that is to be able to control what they do. So for a druid, it would also be a challenge at times to know what he/she is doing, otherwise the results might be nasty. (Consider a fire druid manipulating fire to say form a firewall, need to be careful or else he might get a big fire instead of a firewall.) The morale here is thus: Talia is a layman to magic, and that is very good, for "anything" for her and for me are different things, and thus you should perhaps add what I wrote here to the entry, so that laymen who read about druids get the right picture, and not a wrong one. (Provided you agree with what i wrote, but even if you don't, think of the layman and specify what exactly falls under "anything" and what problems may arise)

And yes, I did not think of this before. It is good to have other people with less habituated eyes look upon stuff.

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Pikel
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« Reply #71 on: 11 December 2005, 22:08:00 »

Yes, I agree that druids may "mess up" what they are doing...especially with fire....or what they do have certain side affects....and i will mention it in the entry.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #72 on: 30 December 2005, 15:01:00 »

Pikel, could you please rearrange your entry according this sheme? Though Artimidor has not given his last ok, it will come out nearly as it is now, I implemented all comments.
And add something about origin, it is too cheap to just say, it is not known. At least there are rumours, people have an opinion, even if it might not be the truth. You need to state of course, that this may be pure lore, but add something nevertheless!

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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« Reply #73 on: 30 December 2005, 16:52:00 »

rearranging shall occur, but it will be awhile, for i have to come up with something for the origin.

I'll ring ya when it's done



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

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« Reply #74 on: 05 January 2006, 09:02:00 »

comments in red

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to Influence the essence of the other object, thus changing it's make-up. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Sentient essences recognize that an essence is trying to merge with it, and resists. Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Here I would like some clarification. By your wording, the essence of a sentient being is itself sentient, and can feel and be strongwilled. It is a little like saying that the essence of a plant is itself a plant. Is this intended? And, if it is, is this wise?

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids.

How do the druids coordinate their actions? Not in merging, but after they merge, how do they coordinate their actions to keep working on the same goal? They don't merge with eachother, I guess, but they could, say, have some kind of contact trough whatever they all merged with. This should be added.

Origins: This compendium holds no concrete evidence on the actual origins of the magic of Druids, although there are several reports, stories, and myths concerning it, and depending on which druid you ask, you will likely get a different story, assuming that the druid would be willing to tell you his stories in the first place, which is not likely unless you have proven your worth to him. Elven Druids tend to tell people that Avá, Coór, and the Aeolía placed the essences, or énh’cár'ámn in their tongue, in to their physical ‘bodies’. Some druids say that the first person to access an essence was an old farm lady, who managed to merge with one of her many cats, although this story is unlikely. Some Druids say that everything started as one essence, and thus one body, and slowly split into many, until finally all the essence that exist today, exist, as do all the bodies.

I would love some myth here... If you allow, I can try to write one.

I like the organised version, it is quite good now, and you can find your way around it.  

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