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Author Topic: A quick question for Talia: time-zones  (Read 9178 times)
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #30 on: 20 December 2006, 17:26:10 »

@ Judy

In earthen analogy I would say, that most people think/know, that Caelereth is flat (more or less), for that is what you see. And that there is a kind of cheese cover (well, half sphere) which covers the world.

How the world looks underneath - nobody can really know, so your dwarves may well imagine, that it has endless layers till it merges with the realms of Trum Baroll. They don‘t have to accept what human and elven sages believe. However, even some dwarves are occasionally above earth (apart form those who live more above), so they see as well, that the sun sets and rises - so where does it go? They (a few) surely know the theories of the the above-world people and that may give them to think about their own believes.

(There are dwarves in Aeruillin (east), but they came there very early, so they might not had to cross vast bodies of water, but what about this seafaring dwarf?)

Human /elves of Santharia would think that the model is the best approach to how the world will look most probably, though we can of course introduce different schools which dispute about how it looks underneath. If there is the netherworld (or if the netherworld is in the centre of the disk ) or if there is a „paradise“. Or if it is covered with water..

As I said elsewhere, I don‘t want to do all arbitrarily, but try to find out first, what our researchers could have deduced with simply measurements like the Greeks found out that the earth is a sphere. but this needs some  mind twisting I don‘t have the time for now. Maybe I write a request to find it out on the boards - but not now - I don‘t want to add to the model now. Other things have to  come first, though it would be nice to do it now.

Generally I would say, that the sages of Santharia believe following

- the world is flat , possibly a disk
- the sun moves as described in the entry and in the model (no distances known though, that I have to find out, or somebody else)
- the moon moves as described

All this we have already stated in the myths of Santharia and I don‘t think, that the people made a sharp distinction between myth and what they really could experience.

That they can know, that the sun is a sphere (glowing ball of fire) is easy - we just need to introduce some sunspots which the first telescopes discovered  - the sun has to rotated for this though. (These sunspots could cause a discussion about purity etc..)

Is this ok, Judy?

After a night‘s sleep I found the flaws in your construction :)

- sundial - I don‘t see yet, why it should not work with the proper calibration? It may look a bit weird though.

Apart from that, that I think time zones are an arbitrary thing, I would, if we want to define something like that for development purposes propose a different scheme: Not the four time zones you have, but three:

East - Yamalquain, (cyhalloi, though in the north things are a bit different anyway)

Mid Santharia

West Nybelmar.

Now, I might be wrong, but I think your assumptions from above are wrong.
If we take the earth conventions we can either define it as mid day or when the sun is nearest the zenith.

On a disk these aren't logically equivalent.

This is true for a disk as well, the difference between Santharia and Nybelmar is, that in Santharia you see the path of the sun as a half circle (more or less) and on Nybelmar as the half of an ellipse , but the highest point of this path (zenith ) is always at the same time. The problem is that while the Santharians look straight in the direction we call south, the Nybelmarian have to look in the direction of southeast. The sun is therefore NOT in the „south“ in its zenith as we are used to on earth!

That may cause some problems with defining directions (where is then south?), so I would propose now, that we introduce a magic(magnetic) field which is strictly directed from south to north , all field lines (to describe it with physics) vertical to the planes of sun and moon.
(I hope I don‘t need to draw a pic now)

Then we can invent such magical device as an compass, which would be a great help for our sailors.

South, north, east and west would then not defined through the sun, but strictly where to the needle of the compass shows.

  If the sun comes out and moves across southern Aeruillin then there will be points east of the point it rises at as well as point west of where it sets.

Not for Aeruillin, but for northern Yamalquain it rises in the south and sets in the southwest, for nybelmar it rises in the southeast and sets in the south.

Please note, that it never moves „across“ any part of the disk. you would need to stand in the void on the edge of the disk to see the sun in your zenith.

I would really like to close this topic for the next half year. Let us concentrate on the MONEY.

"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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« Reply #31 on: 20 December 2006, 17:34:02 »

I would agree that if you want timezones, it would not cut a continent in half :)
This would mean that Sarvonia and Aerullin have the same time, akdor and nybelmar another and cyhalloi / yamalquain another as well.

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Bard Judith
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« Reply #32 on: 21 December 2006, 01:38:00 »

Sorry, didn't mean to keep dragging this back up - but that explanation REALLY helped!   Thanks for taking the time to look at my sketches and answer my naive questions...


"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #33 on: 21 December 2006, 06:13:17 »

Oh MY! My questions do really have a habit of transforming themselves into complex debates!

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

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"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
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Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #34 on: 21 December 2006, 08:47:48 »

it would be fun however, to have 'going south' mean you're going to follow a curved line, yet never stray from your intended direction.

Avrah Kehabhra

"The whole POINT of Nybelmar is that no one has any idea whats going on, overly long entries keep it that way." - Decipher Ziron
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