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Author Topic: Naming  (Read 7169 times)
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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« on: 15 January 2007, 09:33:55 »

What happened to the thread that described differant races nomenclature?
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #1 on: 17 January 2007, 04:40:15 »

Well, that's something creative minds could continue if they have time... The sections "Nomenclature" and "Tribal Languages" were completed and integrated for the Erpheronians so far, and if done at other tribes it should be similar to that.

Regarding Tribal Language Judy has posted something in the Languages section on all human tribes, so there's something to use there, and I guess there was a first start on the Avennorians (see History section, Santharian Timeline). But the logical thing would be to continue with the Avennorians. If someone has the time and collect existing Avennorian names from the site (male and females) we could try to derive schemes and nail things down for this tribe.

Personally I see that as a very important issue, so if anyone's willing to do some homework - be my guest :)
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #2 on: 17 January 2007, 07:23:30 »

This is an early draft. I have read the Avennorian entry and the person entries to find Avennorian names. I will read the Avennorian cities entries (Marcogg, Ciosa... Any I forgot?) tomorrow, I have to go to sleep now. It might also be later because tomorrow evening I leave for the Czech Republic again (only for ten days.)

Avennorian Names

Male
Thyrram Knaast
Troi Ciosa
Thorgeir
Liemolf Marcogg
Barek Swanhild
Okar Snivild
Rekj
Eyfi Swanhild
Anir Snivild
Annils Norgerinth
Daimen Athsinth
Knupp
Monsonius
Alex Jovier

Female
Thea Snivild
Stela Thinval
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Stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus.
Irid al'Menie
Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #3 on: 17 January 2007, 11:40:05 »

Not really any good link, hmmm?
They seem to prefer Th over T, the seem a bit consonant heavy, if you read them through, the names are very vikingish, something I would expect from the Kuglmiz. They like thier Ks and Rs.
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
Bard Judith
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« Reply #4 on: 17 January 2007, 14:10:05 »

Artimidor - I had a bit of a brainstorm over this naming thing.

There are a number of 'random name generators' on the web, which we've all played around with, I'm sure.... but their databases are already set with syllables (  Seventh Sanctum's name generator is amazing in the amount of choice it lets you have, though...  http://www.seventhsanctum.com/gens/namer.html   inspired by Arabic, Egyptian, Hebraic, Celtic, Oriental, and many more....

However, those all work from someone else's set of data - so I was thinking - what if we had our OWN database with the unique syllablary of our world?  Sort of a reverse name generator program?

  Anyhow, what I did was go looking for a random text display script/program into which I could 'plug' the existing syllables, so that we could literally 'generate' Avennorian names, Barbarian names, Tharian names, and even ThergerimTaal names - by having separate databases for each.

This site http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/ has Perl scripts to make your own, but I couldn't make it work in Dreamweaver.  Don't laugh, *I'M* the bard, not the computer programmer around here!  There are lots more - Java, Perl, etc.

Could you write - or adapt - such a random text program, which would allow me (us) to type in all the separate syllables that currently exist in Avennorian, add a few more which seem 'compatible', and generate a list of 'names' by simply choosing two, three, and four syllable combinations?  It doesn't even have to be formal syllables - certain characteristic combinations of letters such as 'oi', or double letters like 'rr' or 'kk' give it personality as well!

Here's a breakdown with which one could start.... (looks invitingly at Art, winks at Irid)

ram
kna
ast
oi
io
sa
th
org
eir
ie
olf
ogg
ek
bar
hild
vild
ild
kar
sn
ekj
ey
fi
swa
nir
sni
ann
nil
nor
ger
rin
inth
ai
men
ath
ier
lex
son
mon
ea
ela
knu
upp
th
kk
rr
gg
...

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Mina
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« Reply #5 on: 17 January 2007, 14:59:46 »

I still intend to come up with 'naming languages' for the human tribes of Santharia.  I just haven't been getting much inspiration in that area lately.  However, I could have a try at coming up with something; I'd just need to know if you have any specific ideas for it, what sort of 'flavour' it should have (not sure if I can pull off this one, actually), and if there are any names (perhaps those already on the site) that absolutely must be possible. 

I don't know anything about Perl, but I have heard of word-generating programs that some people use to create vocabularies for their conlangs; I assume they work in a similar manner. 
Edit: And I just found one.  Look here
« Last Edit: 17 January 2007, 15:12:33 by Mina » Logged

xerampelinae deicida
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« Reply #6 on: 18 January 2007, 04:40:05 »

looking at this list certain patterns can be noticed an compared to earth naming conventions

hild and vild these could be equivalent to son on the end of an Anglo Saxon name the pronunciation of the first consonant having changed over time.

so Swanhild is equivalent to swanson

some of these could be declinsional endings such as inth

this would suggest the nominative case is for their name is inth

eir and ier could be the same thing just a letter transposed.

We could also have sir names based on the occupation of ancestors not only smith but Santharian names such as Amanter, or Mage
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #7 on: 18 January 2007, 04:45:04 »

@Irid: Thanks for putting this list together, Irid - I'm sure in various Manthrian entries you'll find quite a bunch of more! This will give us a solid base to operate from.

@Judy: A name generator is a great idea, absolutely no doubt about that! Perl scripts however cannot be used without a server usually, so you won't have much luck to get it running on your computer.

I cannot really program any Pearl, but I could put together a decent visual basic program for offline use pretty fast for starters. There's really not much needed in order to put some random syllables together. The advantage of doing it on my own would be that I could add any features I want (and what people who use it suggest), and as the application is quite simple I could put weight into the features.

Example: You could select the tribe, specify a gender, and either say just "generate" or say "3 syllables" generation. In this case the program would make a name with 3 syllables. There could be a syllable display together with the display of the generated word, e.g. Wengerim  and Wen - ger - im. If you like e.g. the beginning or the ending, you could click on a syllable to get a new one until you're satisfied. Or click on several - like in a slot machine, like hold 1 and 3... lol And so on. Syllables maintenance could be added as well in an improved version. Typical beginning and ending syllables (gender specific) could also be defined.

In the long run I could port it to Flash, display a tribe picture near it and offer RPG players and developers something to effectively create appropriate names. At the moment downside of a program would be that it is not available directly on the site, and that I'm quite busy with Santhworld stuff - or at least there exists a long feature list for that.
« Last Edit: 18 January 2007, 04:50:04 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #8 on: 19 January 2007, 20:56:03 »

Some rough midday break work:
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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Mina
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« Reply #9 on: 19 January 2007, 21:49:47 »

"Midday break work"?  Wow, you work fast.  It should be possible to adapt it to generate strings of letters instead of syllables (ie. like the one I linked to), right?  For languages that have very large numbers of possible syllables, that would probably be better. 
« Last Edit: 19 January 2007, 21:51:22 by Mina » Logged

Bard Judith
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« Reply #10 on: 20 January 2007, 00:02:43 »

(blinks in amazement)

I like it muchly!   'Oan' is a great name - and so is 'Ash' - especially if joined to a last name or descriptor... the longer ones make much more visual sense than anything I could get out of the link Mina posted or the one I found... and you've even incorporated accent marks...

(begins to chant gleefully:) "Art is smart! Art is smart!"
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #11 on: 20 January 2007, 00:11:41 »

It's still very simple yet, but already serves the purpose to a good deal methinks. It works already because the groundwork has been laid with the definitions we've already made for the Erpheronians. So we need to complete more groundwork basically. If we have that for the Avennorians, you get hundreds of Avennorians names instantly.

Brainstorming: We could also allow to choose and save the names we like. This could have an effect in the program, as it could do statistical weighting of syllables, in the way it decides what syllables to pick next time predominantely (feature could be turned on/off), so that we really can work towards a certain style of names.
« Last Edit: 20 January 2007, 00:42:27 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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Mina
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« Reply #12 on: 20 January 2007, 00:38:32 »

@Bard Judith: The one I linked to requires a bit of linguistic knowledge to work properly.  However, if the settings could be made an integral part of the program, a user wouldn't need any such knowledge; they'd just have to specify the number of syllables and words they want. 
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #13 on: 20 January 2007, 12:11:46 »

"We could also allow to choose and save the names we like. This could have an effect in the program, as it could do statistical weighting of syllables, in the way it decides what syllables to pick next time predominantly (feature could be turned on/off), so that we really can work towards a certain style of names."

You CAN?  (jaw drops in amazement)   I'm even more impressed.  One might even say you are developing "ARTI-official Intelligence" in this 'rough midday break work' program....

However,  just to demonstrate the superiority of man over machine - here are some randomly-generated names.... from my mother!  She is remarkably good at Babble and Gobbledegook, and has some fluency in Whatsit.   (After we finished writing down the names we couldn't resist giving them all characters as well!  Feel free to disagree with our definitions... :)



Cothe  (young bride)   Klothi (wise old man with a long beard)   Kothen ( a taciturn smith) 

 Garoth  (tomboy rebel)     Ithlen ( slim and slender blonde, a shy beauty)     Saratha ( middle-aged woman with boisterous sense of humour)   

Hegmoth (a villain!)   Kishma (a young girl)  Tanaugh (handsome young man)   Hasken (older merchant)

Vishira (a barren woman)   Hautrig  (young boy)   Akjin (neutral)    Ildbara (mother of eight) 
« Last Edit: 20 January 2007, 12:50:19 by Bard Judith » Logged

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Mina
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« Reply #14 on: 21 January 2007, 01:41:55 »

...and after more tries with that generator I think I've found a problem: it's too simple.  Darn.  That's probably why the results you got didn't tend to make sense.  My earlier attempts used very simple phonologies, which worked well enough, but trying it with something more complex causes it to produce some really odd (well, more like improbable) results.  Well, at least it's got me working a little on Erpheronian again; maybe I'll post something soon. 
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