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Author Topic: Kur'och fey Mologh / Northern Sarvonia / Horse  (Read 21036 times)
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #15 on: 15 May 2007, 05:22:17 »

Well, I don't see any difference between a cow and a horse. The cows served my grandparents as did the horse for the much richer people. They gave not only the milk, but where used as beast of burden as well.  I think my grandparents were as attached to their cows as other people may have been to horses. But nobody could afford to feed an old cow which could not do the work anymore or gave milk.
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #16 on: 15 May 2007, 05:48:14 »

I did say 'parts' of Europe....  :P   I know 'roekfleisch' (sp?) is still considered a treat in Holland, though it's hard to get real roekfleisch in Canada due to similar prejudices on the part of Import officials...   :D

Your quote is beautifully chosen, though!  I should feel guilty for insisting that the white horses would be preferable...  :)
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Curgan
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« Reply #17 on: 15 May 2007, 14:57:09 »

Don't!  grin
The Icemen SHOULD eat horse, since they do not have much to eat over there and the "d@mn horse is clean, tasty and full of calories. Well, too bad for the horse..."
Down in Centorauria they won't eat horses, because of their nomadic culture and the huge respect they have for this proud animal.

PS1 During the German/bulgarian/Italian occupation of Greece in WWII there was a severe lack of food in 1942-3. Many were forced to eat their horses (along with dogs, cats etc) and they still rememeber it with disgust (ommiting other animals), not because the horses weren't tasty enough, but because they killed an animal that could be considered as part of the family

PS2 Like i wrote before Takor, De coloribus et gustibus non disputandum est. Horses might be a very tasty food, and healthy too, but it's a sence of respect and gratitude that keeps some people from eating it. My grandmother said that animals with one hoof should not be eaten, cause they resemble to man (like horses, mules, donkeys...)
« Last Edit: 15 May 2007, 15:02:40 by Curgan » Logged

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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #18 on: 15 May 2007, 15:15:53 »

Curgan, I think my grandparents loved and respected their cows as did richer people respect their horses, they didn't eat beef normally either (they could not afford more than a small piece of pork on sunday anyhow), but if there was a cow too old to be of use, they cold not allow themselves not to eat it or sell it for eating. Feeding till it died a natural death was just not an option. That has nothing to do with respect or a lack of it.

And today - what does a horse do more for me than a cow, why should it be respected more than cows? Cows are as intelligent as horses, pigs even more. I know some nice horses as well, we have a friend in Hungary who breeds horses, but for me the only difference is that they are far more elegant than a cow.
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Curgan
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« Reply #19 on: 15 May 2007, 15:58:06 »

Well, it seems that we 've opened a large discussion about cultural differences... rolleyes one discussion I always enjoy (although off topic here  :P). What various people interpret as respect or lack of it varies greatly. For example here in Greece when I arrange a dinner with friends, whom I invite to a restaurant or at home let's say, I pay for it, while in some other countries everyone pay their share. And many, many more intersting and funny things that one can take for granted but others do not do so...

PS1 Respect is a complicated matter. In Greece -until very recently-the grandfathers have their hand kissed when they gave a little something to their grandchildren (now this habit is gone). In turkey the same is done even now and in much greater scale. In other parts of the world a kiss on the cheek is enough. In other this kiss is offending...
PS2 Maybe we should open a relevant thread...
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« Reply #20 on: 15 May 2007, 18:51:34 »

Here in Korea it is still quite easy to find dog in the small markets (not plastic-wrapped in the supermarkets) and back-alley 'poshintang' shops (dog soup) - while in most other parts of the world people recoil at the concept of eating dog.   Generally the 'part of the family' or 'eat a PET'? issue is raised.  However, in parts of Africa guinea pig is a delicacy, not a pet.  Cows may be sacred in parts of India but mere hamburger and methane factories elsewhere.   

And, as you note, Curgan, though food is a large part of culture, other differences can be even broader and more sensitive.   Korean grandfathers are accustomed to spitting where they please (though that custom is dying out due to Western prejudices) and to fondling children rather intimately to show their affection.  Strangers on the street think nothing of patting Katherine's head, stroking her cheek, or even grabbing her shoulder to turn her so they can see her face more clearly.  Of course she attracts more than her share of attention with her fair good looks and fantastic eyelashes, but any cute Korean child is used to a lot of physical demonstrations of affection as well.

Sorry!  We have rather hijacked this thread, haven't we?

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Curgan
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« Reply #21 on: 15 May 2007, 22:29:45 »

Yeah, but all those are so interesting! evil evil evil grin evil evil evil
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #22 on: 17 May 2007, 14:05:41 »

Very Very interesting, but that is because I was out of town for the last 4 days and could not respond, lol.  I have quickly read the replies, which have given me lots to think about.  I will read them again, closer, before I make any changes, but do want to make some off the cuff replies.

I did not intend for the culls to be eaten, as having once raised horses myself, I find the thought horrific.  BUT, I am not a northlander, whose very survival might depend on the protein that my family could receive.  It gives me another way to make the breed rare.  I don't want a million horses running the ice lands.  My original intent was that they were not allowed to breed.

Chestnut.  Yes, I know that is what the colour is called, but I looked to see if Santharia had a chestnut, which I could not find.  I seem to remember another horse having chestnut as a colour, but I could very well be wrong.  Regardless, as I could not find a chesnut, I figured I could not have a chestnut colour.

Perfect.  Well, perfect is in the eye of the beholder.  What the ice tribes considered perfect is definately not what the desert people would consider perfect.  I did not intend for this horse to be the "perfect horse", only the Ice Tribes version of it.  It is a smaller horse, with a smooth gait, and extreme endurance.  To them, this is their idea of perfection.  And the Remusians I do not consider "backward".  They may not be as civilized as those in sounthern Sarvonia, but backward is not the correct term.  Natice americans were once called backward, or savage, and they bred some of the finest war ponies on the continent.

Colour.  There are examples in RL of breeds that have strict colour rules.  I wanted to add that flavour into the mix with my horse.  As well, most of the developed breeds in Santharia are very light in colour, lots of whites, buckskins and palamino types.  I figured we should have a darker breed.  Personally, I LOVE the bay.  I used to raise Morgan horses, and the bay has always been my favorite.

Name.  I think Remusian Horse could be another name, though not the one the native Ice Tribes would use, especially those tribes NOT Remusian.  If it was to be used, it would be a name that only those from Southern areas would use.  I had thought Remusian Horse originally, but decided against it for those reasons.

Blue horses.  Interesting.  It could be a rare birth, maybe an important omen or something, celabrated or whatever the word is for opposite celebrated (I'm too tired to look it up).  Could use some suggestions in that regard.

That ends my reply.   Goodnight till tomorrow.
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #23 on: 17 May 2007, 15:00:45 »

Altario, see my comment about cows , they might have to eat the horse at some point, could well be a special ceremony .

I thought it might be a good idea to not  spread it to far in the north. Maybe only the Remusian and the adjacent tribes use them? I'm no breeder, but can you change an animal in 300 years this much that it gets the properites of a native one? I don't think, they are very suited for the north of the icelands coast.

Looking forward to your next edit.
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #24 on: 17 May 2007, 23:59:09 »

Being a horse devotee myself, I don't like the idea of eating them either, though the practicality of it does have a point.  But a horse probably wouldn't provide the high-fat quality of meat that Icelanders would require, anyway.  They'd likely eat seal and whale meat for that.  Perhaps they just geld the (male) culls and use them as trade goods to southern tribes?

The idea of eating the horse meat in a special ceremony does have merit.  Many of the Celtic tribes had religious ceremonies involving various animals being killed as special sacrifices to gods/nature spirits, etc., and this would certainly add some interest.  But in most traditions, only "perfect" animals would be used as sacrifices, not the "unsuitable" culls.

A small, short-legged horse, with a heavy coat and perhaps a higher proportion of fat (as an insulator)  with a great deal of endurance--perhaps the breeding includes the little curlycoated Hobbithorse, or Sarvonian draught pony, as well as the Tirpan and possibly a Centaurorian Horse or two, (of the heavier war horse type, NOT the slender racers) to add some grace and beauty to the breed.  That's the picture I'm getting of this animal.  Altario has a good point, that things which people breed for are not necessarily the most desirable "wild animal traits".  Mutations such as shorter legs, atypical coat colours, etc., might not be desirable in a wild beast but people might prefer these things and thus allow the animal to breed for them.

And if you restrict the use of it to the Remusians and possibly some adjacent tribes, that makes it a bit more unusual and therefore special.   Altario,  you may want to specify more precisely what they use it for, too--I think it might be even more valuable as a draught animal (carrying heavy loads of whale, seal or deer meat, trade goods on southern trips and the like) than a riding animal, though both uses certainly are possible.  A travois-style load carrier might also be practical, or something like a cart on skis, for pulling loads in snow.

Just a couple extra thoughts to throw into the mix.

Alysse

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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #25 on: 18 May 2007, 00:08:22 »

Yes, a travois and a sled are two items I am working on now that would be items the horses are used for. 

Yes, my idea for the horse was to have it predominately in Remusiat, as they are the most "civilized" of the differing tribes.  The other tribes would not be able to support a large population of the horses.

Thank you all for the interest this animal has gotten. (as opposed to my poor snail, lol)
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Curgan
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« Reply #26 on: 18 May 2007, 01:25:33 »

Well, they should eat it as they are low on proteins. The environment ensures that there won't be many of them around  grin
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #27 on: 18 May 2007, 02:39:52 »

Perhaps you could call the ideal colour "pinnip-eye".

Pinnips are the Santharian seal.  All the Ice tribes would be quite familiar with this beautiful blue animal, (which they DO eat) that has eyes of a very deep rich brown.  It's darker than adlemarine, something like the eophan brown colour (search "colours and hues" for the references).  I can see an early Remusian breeder saying, "Now, this is the ideal colour , my son--the shade of a pinnip's eye."   Thus, "pinnipeye".

What do you think?

Alysse
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Curgan
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« Reply #28 on: 18 May 2007, 07:41:25 »

Not bad, not bad...        cool
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #29 on: 18 May 2007, 11:17:38 »

I have made some changes, in red, and added to the entry.  After much thought, I have decided to keep the colours as they are.  Remember that Kor'och rides a giant BLACK horse, therefore the black horses, and dark colours, would be more closely revered than would a light coloured animal.  I have integrated the blue coloured anomaly, but again, did not see that as a colour that they would want more than the black of Kor'och's mount.

I liked the pinnipeye colour idea very much, and the Berg Pony ideas.  Thank you for the contributions and more thoughts are definately wanted.
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"Lather...Rinse...Repeat"   Why has God made my life so complicated?

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