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Author Topic: People Proposal - Anti-Magic Political Movement  (Read 6676 times)
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #15 on: 05 September 2007, 06:04:42 »

Ximax city is not entirely inhabited by mages, but by common people, as the province. The mages are learning and teaching at the academy, and there might be servants without magical inclination. and Santharia is big, so the absolvents disperse!

However, your last part might be true at times.
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Fox
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« Reply #16 on: 05 September 2007, 06:14:02 »

Ximax city is not entirely inhabited by mages, but by common people, as the province. The mages are learning and teaching at the academy, and there might be servants without magical inclination. and Santharia is big, so the absolvents disperse!

I wasn't implying that every person in Ximax was a mage. Most aren't. But it is the City of Magic. When people look at Ximax, they cannot help but think about magic. It doesn't matter even if the city is only populated by 0.5% mages... it is globally viewed as a city of magic. In other words, magic is well-known enough to be a constant of the world. IE, it's not so rare as people will go 'magic, oh that stuff doesn't exist'.

Rarity is a point of view, in my opinion. Even if the physical numbers of mages is very few, magic as a whole is very large and well known as not a strange mysterious medium, but as something where there exists an official organization that can be reached by anyone who wishes to. Physically, individual mages are rare. But in terms of global impact, they are profoundly important.

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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #17 on: 05 September 2007, 06:44:19 »

Yes, but I don't think that the people think at Ximax first, they will see more the daily magic, Ximax is just one aspect and far away, at least for half the country.

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Some  more ideas and comments.


Maybe we should clear up some things, especially terms first.

Utopia - I do not see that there is a danger that the current Santharia would be this way as most people understand „Utopia“ (in a Utopian society everything is solved and people live in eternal bliss) . I don‘t see any single entry which would point in this direction. Fact is, that not much or nothing is written at all and only „peaceful time“ might be interpreted in this way.

What is „peaceful“ - and is it still desired? Many of the older developers who wished it this way are not here often anymore and I don‘t remember if Art agreed or was just outnumbered.

„Peaceful“ means for me if a society is concerned that not only no major wars occur, but that the society itself is „sane“ and „healthy“ to a certain extent. That does not mean, that there are no conflicts in this society,  riots or opposition, even violent ones to the government. It is a matter of how serious or widespread they are.

When I asked for a beginning and end I meant an open conflict which endangers the whole society as does a war. When nobody can sleep in peace for he has to fear his neighbour might accuse him of magic tomorrow just because he is jealous because he has a cow more than him, when things as the belief in the evil eye and much more in this way is not only believed, but has consequences. I would not call this a sane nor peaceful society and it is surely not the soil a country could thrive in how we had it planned for the last half century at least.

Of course superstition, misinformation and all such trouble which never ceases would still be present.   It is the amount of trouble which counts, which makes the difference between peace and war.

„Utopia“ ?? - I see here mostly the wish to describe evil and nasty things - how many wars have we described and how many peaceful times? (Thar and Santhros, and not even he has an entry yet) and what for „friendly“ approach to describe our current time has been attempted yet? None, so were is Utopia?

A last thought: We take the way magic is seen quite directly from our earthen medieval heritage. (Magic is evil, a lot of superstition is around.. ), but have we thought what for an effect might the difference between earth and Caelereth create, namely that magic is here real and back on earth not? Do the people here behave different because of that and if how?? Magic on earth is the unknown, but it is not as unknown here, wild magic can be encountered fairly easily, I assume. Anybody thought about that already?


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Fox
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« Reply #18 on: 05 September 2007, 07:29:24 »

Utopia - I do not see that there is a danger that the current Santharia would be this way as most people understand „Utopia“ (in a Utopian society everything is solved and people live in eternal bliss) . I don‘t see any single entry which would point in this direction. Fact is, that not much or nothing is written at all and only „peaceful time“ might be interpreted in this way.

What is „peaceful“ - and is it still desired? Many of the older developers who wished it this way are not here often anymore and I don‘t remember if Art agreed or was just outnumbered.

„Peaceful“ means for me if a society is concerned that not only no major wars occur, but that the society itself is „sane“ and „healthy“ to a certain extent. That does not mean, that there are no conflicts in this society,  riots or opposition, even violent ones to the government. It is a matter of how serious or widespread they are.

What I personally meant as utopia was along the lines that, in a search through the site for current issues, I was unable to find any. We see numerous assassins, mercenaries, fighters, bodyguards, and so on on the RP board, and I continually find myself wondering -- how do these people find jobs? What do they actually do for a living when we have such a peaceful society? I jokingly suggested in IRC the other day that the CD mods should start telling new assassin characters to have a weakness of being unable to find any contracts because the massive amount of assassins in the world have already killed everyone who people wanted to be killed.

Now, I know that we shouldn't design the world for the RP board. And I do believe that a relatively peaceful, sane society is best. My thing was, that I really couldn't find any references at all to any conflicts whatsoever, serious or not. Maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough. Or, I am not sure if that is because we simply have not done very much history for the current era at all (where the Compendium is pretty much the only major history icon over the past 500+ years). I mean, what I see is a stable society, really. Where trade is active, society is building, no threat of wars, no threat of conflicts, and so on. A sane and healthy society, as you said.

I'm not necessarily saying that I desire wars, conflicts, etc, either. But what I was more looking for was something out there in our current era which people might be divisive on. In our modern era, we have very many things that are controversial, ranging from abortion, the war in Iraq, homosexuality and marriage, religion, etc. I was hoping for something like that in Santharia... where we have conflicts, without actually having conflicts. Divisive issues of the mind, rather than people running around spilling blood. 


My Utopia statement was probably flawed. All I meant was, that I felt modern Santharia was lacking any real non-criminal "dirt".


Quote
When I asked for a beginning and end I meant an open conflict which endangers the whole society as does a war. When nobody can sleep in peace for he has to fear his neighbour might accuse him of magic tomorrow just because he is jealous because he has a cow more than him, when things as the belief in the evil eye and much more in this way is not only believed, but has consequences. I would not call this a sane nor peaceful society and it is surely not the soil a country could thrive in how we had it planned for the last half century at least.

This is not what I am trying to do. I apologize if some of my examples were that extreme, but I am definitely not trying to go this route. I'd much rather have peaceful political movements backed by propaganda, where there is more court drama and controversial debate rather than any outright violence and nightly fear. I definitely am not trying to create something that is going to cause major societal disruption and threat of collapse etc. No witchhunts, Inquisitions, etc. Just a controversial subject that people might argue about over dinner time, a mage might worry that taxes in Ximax could go up or that he has to register as a mage when entering a new city as a result of new policies (but that such policies are *not* already in place), etc. Very minor issues of rights and suspicion and stuff, not all-out war at all.


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„Utopia“ ?? - I see here mostly the wish to describe evil and nasty things

That is not my intent. As much as I may personally prefer working on those periods of history (mainly because I like brewing struggles where emotion on the characters and people is high), I do not want that for modern Santharia. I am looking for court and debate intrigue only, which thus allows some few isolated cases of things flaring up but ultimately is a non-violent movement.


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A last thought: We take the way magic is seen quite directly from our earthen medieval heritage. (Magic is evil, a lot of superstition is around.. ), but have we thought what for an effect might the difference between earth and Caelereth create, namely that magic is here real and back on earth not? Do the people here behave different because of that and if how?? Magic on earth is the unknown, but it is not as unknown here, wild magic can be encountered fairly easily, I assume. Anybody thought about that already?

What I see personally is that magic has played a large part of history, a largely negative aspect. It is something used by those who are gifted, it is not something everyone has access to, which breeds jealousy. It is something that is often the partaking of nobility rather than the common person due to the money needed to attend Ximax. At the same time, people view it with awe and wonder, because it is something that they do not regularly see.

I personally prefer the 'rare and superstitious' over the 'common and light-hearted' approach. I am not a fan of how lightly magic has been used in other high fantasy worlds like Dungeons and Dragons, WarCraft, and so on, where enchanted items are everywhere, magic operates the simplest machines in every city, etc. I like magic as something that is rare, powerful, not understood, and is something that most non-magi simultaneously fear and awe.
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #19 on: 05 September 2007, 15:57:01 »

Well, then, maybe it was just a misunderstanding or we didn't say clearly what we meant, what was intended. I never wanted the Santharian society to be more peaceful than ours, but Europe did have by now nearly 60 years of peace (despite the riots in France, the different mafias throughout the whole continent and racial motivated beatings in eastern Germany) and that's what I envisioned for the last years of our current time. Enough space for assassins. (And yes, one that finds no work might be interesting to play! ;) )
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Mina
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« Reply #20 on: 06 September 2007, 00:43:19 »

I think, during the Santhmoot, they laid down plans for a centuries-long conflict that only ended a few decades ago or something of that sort.  I don't remember it very clearly anymore, but I think there was a war with Shan'thai and something about a tyrant.  The thread is probably still in the history forum. 
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Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #21 on: 11 September 2007, 20:00:31 »

Ximax is the only city with enough mages to have an anti-mage movement IMHO. If you can count the mages of importance in your province on one hand, why bother having a political movement against them? In Ximax people also see the every day applications (the good side) of magic though, so if it has opponents they would be very few and not that influential.

Quote
We take the way magic is seen quite directly from our earthen medieval heritage. (Magic is evil, a lot of superstition is around.. ), but have we thought what for an effect might the difference between earth and Caelereth create, namely that magic is here real and back on earth not? Do the people here behave different because of that and if how?

People used to be/are afraid of things they don't understand, so mages would be looked at with a lot of superstition IMHO. I could easily see people chasing mages out of the city because their Light spell made the cows give sour milk or something. I don't see them discussing mages over a beer though, but rather tell spooky stories about those dense woods next door.
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