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Author Topic: West Nybelmar Realms: The Western Bay  (Read 10467 times)
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Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #15 on: 22 November 2007, 21:19:13 »

Well I thank you for your apology, but where do we stand with this now?

And I mean generally, not just with these Inami-Orcs ideas...Everytime something new or (to be fair) important comes into existance through mine and Mira's joint discussions, it seems to be instantly disapproved because of previous plans. From my POV plans are non-existent unless specified somewhere publicly. Thats what we are doing here- rather than leaving ambigously labelled maps of an unexplained area- we are making rough outlines for future development, entry reference and consideration with the introduction of new proposals.

Also, the point somebody (Im not sure who, I just remembering picking it up) made about Nybelmar not being the main focus, so why are we making it a possiblity for others to come in and develop...This confuses me a little...The active Nybelmar team is quite low on numbers, and even if the occasional helper arises (like Arceon for example, who I am very thankful has appeared), we still need developers for progress.

As previously advertised by Mira- Nybelmar isnt the best place for a newbie, but I for one am not going to discourage anyone who wants to work on the continent regardless of experience.

These rough outlines help in a whole majority of ways:

- We know what is where- giving us insight into historical activites that may of occured, local political climate etc. etc.

Imagine for example if I only found out that a tribe of demon-men inhabited Zhun in huge numbers- all of my visions would be crushed....(perhaps and extreme example, but still)

- They allow new people to work in areas that arent neccesarily focused on to a great degree- Now this may be biased towards those with experience, but those who have proven themselves elsewhere would be a great asset in working with the Faen or Morcini after the groundwork had been laid, since they are neighbours of the (currently focused) Vikh

- Give us valid ground to negoiate new ideas brought forward- A rough map allows us to work out whether someones (including our own) ideas would work later on....If we had to navigate by someone else's invisible plans we might work on areas where something else was planned....through no fault of our own

Decipher Ziron
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #16 on: 23 November 2007, 04:55:34 »

I'd like to add here - though I'm in no way an expert on Nybelmarian things - that it is important that there needs to be a discussion between the people involved in this area to discuss the options and go for a compromise, which allows everyone to have their area of expertise, tribes and places and that it is clear who works on where there are the confines. Maybe adjustments can be made so that the envisioned scenario from both sides can somehow still work - perhaps not the way everyone initially intended it, but that is the way compromises work.
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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #17 on: 23 November 2007, 04:58:08 »

*Patiently await's Coren's return*

Without wanting to sound sarcastic.. ok, maybe a little.. but that might be a loooooong discussion ;)
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Avrah Kehabhra

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #18 on: 15 December 2007, 17:10:09 »

Hey there :)

I hope I'm not too late on this debate. First, I'm quite sorry about the tense aspect that this discussion turned to on occasions, so please, let us all shake hands and understand that we're not struggling against each other ;)

I looked at my profile and saw that I have my yahoo address on, I know I respond to any e-mail about santharian development, if I did not, it must be because of the huuuuge amounts of spam I keep getting into that yahoo address. I am deleting messages one by one though, so a "santharia" in one of their subject lines should have caught my eye I guess... Anyway, know that you can always send me e-mails. I also still check the boards even if I'm not posting. so a private message would do too.

Now for the things in question here. I have to say that I like the idea with that tribe of former orcs, but not really in that kind of relation with the Void Sails. The thing here is that if we draw such a precise history of Void Sails (and Void Sails, as the entry says are "Inami") we would lose the intended mysterious aura that they are supposed to have. Therefore I wouldn't favor at all, a story that would point to mages (or any other easily identifyiable cause) behind these creatures. On the other hand, the respective orcs (and I would venture to imagine humans too) deeply influenced by the presence of these creatures, sounds nice. In fact, Coren was referring to a tribe/nation of humans living in that far-west area, that built an "empire" under the heavy influence of these creatures (but think about this influence, more along the lines of contamination - as in radioactive contamination :) ).

These are just ideas anyway, we shouldn't get too fired up on them.

About "babies" (as Art mentioned) and abandoned (or not) projects, I can say that everything I did in the east tried to keep (and continue) the original sketches set by Koldar/Rakshiri. It's the only way to tie things together and develop a consistent vision of an area. Of course, I brought my own touch to everything and even start things from scratch (like Anpagan and Venlaken - roughly only names on Koldar's maps back then), but always keeping an eye to the old sketches and the rest of the continent development as well. So I wouldn't mind if somebody would do that to my own "stuff" as well, provided that I would know about it (unless I would announce the end of my collaboration with Santharia).

Anyway, I don't plan to leave the project :) and I do have more and more ideas to write about. I was going to set them at work for Kaleman, but now that this issue showed up I'm thinking that perhaps it would be better for me to switch to the far-west (I'm kinda lonely in the east too, and that's not fun :) ).

So yep, fire me e-mails, pm me, or even better, start new threads on this forum, I'm still around and willing to talk :D
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Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #19 on: 15 December 2007, 23:31:13 »

Well its good to hear from you Smith and nice to know you are still around...even if you do need a bit of prompting from time to time...

Just to summarise what I thought you said...is this correct:

You have no qualms about such changed orcs existing, as long as no concrete reference is made to the Inami's involvement....to keep the Inami more mysterious?

Decipher
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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #20 on: 16 December 2007, 13:24:37 »

Well, I said that I like the idea, so I'd say it's definitely worth looking into. I'm thinking we could place them in Naezhan Kaerath and maybe in between Orcal and those Nermarein mountains. The humans that Coren was referring to would live west of those mountains (and that's why I was saying that we could think not of just changed orcs but changed humans too). I can probably take care of the humans.

That entire deserted area in the far-west should really have an eerie look/feel to it. I think I already mentioned bone trees there and the eye-crabs. The "changelings" (we need a new name) certainly add to this.
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Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #21 on: 16 December 2007, 22:24:54 »

So...In the area marked as Inami...in the north we would have the Changed orcs and in the south the changed men...or are you talking in the terms of the changed orcs live in the Inami area and the changed humans live in the maroony red area....

I was confused to what you meant by 'those mountains'....

Personally I would prefer the Void Orcs to live in the north...in the part marked Naezshan Kaereth...
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Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #22 on: 17 December 2007, 07:14:38 »

Which is a desert, and might explain for their semi barbaric state.. the Changeling humans then might be much more civilised?

Also, even though Decipher and myself completely "explained" the relation between the Changelings and the Inami, i don't see why we wouldnhave to tell this to the compendium. it can easilly be classified as Develompent Only material :)
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Avrah Kehabhra

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #23 on: 17 December 2007, 16:19:08 »

I'm talking about the whole area marked as "Inami" plus the brownish area beyond the mountains west of the "Inami" area.

To the changed orcs "tribe" idea I was proposing humans too. So not only that orcs (from the east) wander so far into that territory and got changed but humans (from the west) do that too. So the "tribe" itself would have not only orc changelings but humans too (with the same dominant traits). I'm imagining this "tribe" wandering mostly around the Kaerath desert as well (the northern part of "Inami" marked area). Beyond the mountains (in the brownish colored area west of the "Inami" marked one) would be that tribe of humans-only deeply influenced by Inami - that Coren referred to as an "empire" and as having connections with his "light ones".

I would be completely against that explanation for Void Sails (=Inami, btw) even in a Santharian Compendium context. In my opinion, that would just ruin their "mystical"/mysterious apparition. They should stay as they are, an unexplained phenomenon, an eerie sight and an unbelievable appearance, not at all common to the "everyday" eyes. As a traveler in those parts of Nybelmar, you might be lucky to spot one floating above the horizon, and you might be able to hear stories about interactions with such beings, but that's all... And then you would be wandering away towards your ship (or whatever brought you there) followed by a flock of eye-crabs, with the horrifying shrieks of the changelings still ringing in your ears from the night before... See what I mean?
« Last Edit: 17 December 2007, 16:23:53 by Smith in Exile » Logged
Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #24 on: 18 December 2007, 01:22:12 »

Maybe we should bring back Bertrand d'Alba to tell us more about the Changelings?
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Avrah Kehabhra

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #25 on: 18 December 2007, 01:27:20 »

Not necessarily. He was maybe the first Anpagan explorer to reach that area, but that doesn't mean there weren't anymore people to go there after that. :)
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Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #26 on: 18 December 2007, 02:08:18 »

Yeah, but his reports will make any entry sound a bit less credulous, adding mystery..
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Avrah Kehabhra

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #27 on: 18 December 2007, 05:51:24 »

I'm not gonna respond to that.  :)
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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #28 on: 18 December 2007, 06:08:25 »

Ok, I will   :P

Here is the passage taken from the Void Sail entry with the myth of their possible origin.

Quote
Myth/Lore. Every single bit of knowledge about the Void Sails (or Inamis) might be considered mythical. Yet there is one very interesting interpretation (and perhaps the most coherent) that is worth mentioning here. It is based upon the Anpagans' belief that once, on their lands, a long lost and forgotten civilization had met its fate. Probably contemporary with the fabled dark wizard Menemronn or even older, this great civilization perished in an unimaginable cataclysm. Such the Anpagans explain the long abandoned ruins that they found when they first settled in the Venlaken area. And such, some of them explain these majestic creatures. The Void Sails are actually some of the last vestiges of this ancient civilization. They were their means of transportation, their "Pacifier" galleys. Embedded in the gelatinous body of a Void Sail they were sailing them as the Anpagans are now sailing their galleys on the vast seas. And the myth also claims that these ancient Void Sails were far more larger than the largest ever seen by now. Some say that after the great cataclysm the Void Sails disappeared in the great Ethereal Void, drawn to it by their very own magic. And so the ones that can be seen now are those that have lost their way and are searching it ever since. Perhaps someone will be able to tame them once, as Armand Da'Ran tamed the great sea serpents. Yet every scholar on the Ansaran Island warns about the possibility that a Daedhirian mage would accomplish that (considering the Void Sails spotted north of Venlaken). Should the twisted mages of the Enclave ever tame these creatures that would spell the doom of us all.


That's why I didn't like the idea of "Inami-mages," and I was trying to say that in a less blunt manner :) On the other hand, I liked the changelings idea, and I was just making suggestions to it. You don't have to change it according to those suggestions if you don't want to.
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Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #29 on: 18 December 2007, 06:16:22 »

In fact, this is one of the subjects the compendium can be inconsistent on, as we have no way to determine which theory is correct...
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Avrah Kehabhra

"The whole POINT of Nybelmar is that no one has any idea whats going on, overly long entries keep it that way." - Decipher Ziron
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