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Author Topic: The Serphelorian Tribe  (Read 10565 times)
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Grunok the Exile
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« Reply #15 on: 23 December 2007, 11:03:34 »

Ok.  An update on where I'm at:

I have added some information about the difference between the Serphelorians and the Sophronians (in gold). 

I will need to work on the history some more before I can add more about the different types of kingdom it has been, but once I have done that I will add it to the Government section.  I also plan to add interactions with the Darian, the hobbits of Elenveran, the Daran gnomes, various elves, and battles with Eyelians and others to history, so that is my next area to work on to get this up.

I think I should save adding anything about the way the Sophronians came to worship the Twelve until I update the Sophronians, assuming we do that, as it’s much more relevant to the Sophronians than to the Serphelorians, in my opinion.

I will add a little piece about similarities between the Shendar and the Serphelorians to the People section, possibly in conjunction with saying how the Serphelorians have influenced a different view of women across Santharia.

Once the army, nomenclature, language and childbearing submissions are done I will also add their overviews of to the entry.

Phew!  So I have a bit of work to do!  I will change the posticon back to Dev-1, as I think I know where I am going for now.  Comments on what I have there are still most welcome, though.  I will start on the history first, then change this entry as I develop the history. computer
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #16 on: 27 December 2007, 17:44:22 »

Ok, read the last sections of the entry now, here are some comments:

- I'm fine with it that the Natural Resources section isn't dealt with for now, one cannot do all at once properly. And if you plan further entries to add more depth to the Serphelorians, like a Places entry, then we'll get some more stuff anyway in the process. So this can wait indeed.

- In general there is also no problem with the Festival part, yet the Gods' role is still somewhat unclear, so that's why I get to that in the next paragraphs.

- I have some ideas that derive from the relgion concept and would like to explain that a bit. Of course this would affect Sophronians as well (perhaps mainly), but I think we should keep the religious background in mind, as we can deduce a few helpful things from that:

With the festivals we of course touch the religion issue again, which will be primarily something for a Sophronian entry. But with Sophronia as the Foresighted One (Destiny) we have a direct bridge to Seyella here. Plus with Arvins (Hunt), Armeros (War) and Jeyriall (Harvest) I guess the most important ones are mentioned that can play a role for a tribe that was always roaming around to finally find a land to settle. So Sophronian belief would have perhaps four Gods, with the Destiny Goddess (she was the tribe's leader) as the primary ones, and the others could serve as assistents. This just to sketch a possible background.

The question about Sophronian/Serphelorian belief also is important, because you mention for example that the feast of "Armeros the Just" is celebrated, which of course is how Santharians see this God. The Sophronians/Serphelorians however might accentuate attributes of their God of War differently, for example it could be the original belief of these tribes that the stronger one wins, and that you need to work towards that strength to earn the God's blessing and eventually prevail. So for the Sophronians that might correspond with the war god's "justice" - quite contrary to the Santharian belief, which is heavily influenced by the elven idea of the "balance of the world's powers". Such ideas could still dominate among these people. - Oh, and despite such an image of the God of War the Sophronians/Serphelorians of course wouldn't see the mingling with e.g. Avennorians as a defeat, because the Destiny Goddess stands above war and everything, and if the tribe's might isn't great enough to defeat another tribe, then the will of the Goddess is fulfilled nevertheless by strengthening their own ranks with mixing with the enemy.

To enable all that I could envision a certain naivity and determinism (see importance of the Destiny Goddess) prevalent at the Sophronians/Serphelorians that distinguishes them remarkably from other tribes. The reason why they accept for example other names for their Gods so readily might be that they see it as part of their destiny as a tribe. They still stick to their four Gods and their somewhat different interpretation, but other than that they are easier to assimilate than other tribes.

From the importance of Sophronia/Seyella as the Goddess of Destiny I would also suggest to deduce a sort of "positive fatalism" in general. Which means: Sophronians/Serphelorians perhaps believe strongly that their lives lie safely in the Goddesses of Destiny's hand, which allows a certain carefree attitude, and that reflects in their overall gayness. A side effect might be that they are much more receptive to superstition and the like as such things could be signs of the Goddesses will (this could also be worked into the entry a bit).

- You write: "the best foods left over after the winter are eaten" - well, winter (and thus the cold months) stretch over Yearturn, so the winter hasn't passed when there's that celebration. Actually it's in the middle of the celebration. But of course Kiwis rarely have snow when they're barbecuing once the New Year begins, so you don't have that experience, Grun... lol

- Ok, I see that most names of the History tables should be ok, so then I'll start converting them into database format (taken from the second page of the Modern Sophronian History thread) and check them in detail when I do so, writing down names that occur in order to see which ones will need to be changed. That will be my next task while you get to final edits for the main entry here, okeydokey?
« Last Edit: 27 December 2007, 17:50:17 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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Grunok the Exile
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« Reply #17 on: 28 December 2007, 10:59:34 »

Hi Art  wave  I have just responded here to what you have said above, as I read it, so all the grey bits are just what you said.

With the festivals we of course touch the religion issue again, which will be primarily something for a Sophronian entry. But with Sophronia as the Foresighted One (Destiny) we have a direct bridge to Seyella here. Plus with Arvins (Hunt), Armeros (War) and Jeyriall (Harvest) I guess the most important ones are mentioned that can play a role for a tribe that was always roaming around to finally find a land to settle. So Sophronian belief would have perhaps four Gods, with the Destiny Goddess (she was the tribe's leader) as the primary ones, and the others could serve as assistents. This just to sketch a possible background.

Good idea!  I was thinking about having Sophronia as some sort of incarnation of Seyella.  I think I will definitely put her in, and maybe de-emphasise Jeyriall more.  I had her because it was in the Sophronian entry, but perhaps at this temporal distance we can now drop Jeyriall in favour of Seyella, with Armeros and Arvins supporting. It seems to me as if it would be hard for a nomadic people to have a harvest at all, so I think Seyella, supported by Arvins and Armeros, makes much more sense!

The question about Sophronian/Serphelorian belief also is important, because you mention for example that the feast of "Armeros the Just" is celebrated, which of course is how Santharians see this God. The Sophronians/Serphelorians however might accentuate attributes of their God of War differently, for example it could be the original belief of these tribes that the stronger one wins, and that you need to work towards that strength to earn the God's blessing and eventually prevail. So for the Sophronians that might correspond with the war god's "justice" - quite contrary to the Santharian belief, which is heavily influenced by the elven idea of the "balance of the world's powers". Such ideas could still dominate among these people. - Oh, and despite such an image of the God of War the Sophronians/Serphelorians of course wouldn't see the mingling with e.g. Avennorians as a defeat, because the Destiny Goddess stands above war and everything, and if the tribe's might isn't great enough to defeat another tribe, then the will of the Goddess is fulfilled nevertheless by strengthening their own ranks with mixing with the enemy.

I picked his appelation “the Just”, because that is a central tenet of how the Serphelorians believe – it is important to be just and fair, with an emphasis on the rights of the weak, not just those who are stronger.  So it’s less about becoming strong than it is about using the strength you have to protect the weak.  Same with Arvins – it’s about hunting the hunters, to protect the prey, in the course of which you become a hunter yuorself… so definitely an instance of a skewed type of “Arvins’ balance” there.  Heh, I feel an entry on Serphelorian religion coming on, I think  :p  Definitely too much to put in to a main entry, but I will put it on my list of things to do. 

To enable all that I could envision a certain naivity and determinism (see importance of the Destiny Goddess) prevalent at the Sophronians/Serphelorians that distinguishes them remarkably from other tribes. The reason why they accept for example other names for their Gods so readily might be that they see it as part of their destiny as a tribe. They still stick to their four Gods and their somewhat different interpretation, but other than that they are easier to assimilate than other tribes.

From the importance of Sophronia/Seyella as the Goddess of Destiny I would also suggest to deduce a sort of "positive fatalism" in general. Which means: Sophronians/Serphelorians perhaps believe strongly that their lives lie safely in the Goddesses of Destiny's hand, which allows a certain carefree attitude, and that reflects in their overall gayness. A side effect might be that they are much more receptive to superstition and the like as such things could be signs of the Goddesses will (this could also be worked into the entry a bit).


Yeah, cool!  You will definitely have to wait for the religion entry then Big Grin  I will get on to it soon, since it will affect more than just the religion section.

- You write: "the best foods left over after the winter are eaten" - well, winter (and thus the cold months) stretch over Yearturn, so the winter hasn't passed when there's that celebration. Actually it's in the middle of the celebration. But of course Kiwis rarely have snow when they're barbecuing once the New Year begins, so you don't have that experience, Grun... 

Hehe, yeah, I did think about that, but it must have been lost in all the other things I was tweaking / writing / doing in general on the boards.  I have changed it to “the best foods available are eaten” – that way they can be eating things saved from summer, imported from warmer climates, or just meat they have recently killed.

- Ok, I see that most names of the History tables should be ok, so then I'll start converting them into database format (taken from the second page of the Modern Sophronian History thread) and check them in detail when I do so, writing down names that occur in order to see which ones will need to be changed. That will be my next task while you get to final edits for the main entry here, okeydokey?

Okay, sounds good, though there will be a bit to do here before it can go up, and I am off for about three days while I go up north to spend some time with my partner’s family, as of tonight.  As far as the history goes, I am planning to add a lot, though the things which are already there are unlikely to change, so whether you go ahead with getting it up on the site or not is up to you.  I will go through and check the names now, just to make sure :)
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Grunok the Exile
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« Reply #18 on: 02 January 2008, 12:30:58 »

Hi Art (or whoever else is reading),

I am currently working on an entry for Serphelorian religion (as it will have an effect on this entry).  It has brought up a question I have been thinking on for a while, as to what role the Serphelorian Army, which is a big thing in Serphelorian society, might play in the Santharian kingdom.

The Serphelorians have a history (coming) of being fairly warlike, so I'm fairly certain that Thar and his advisors would have seen the sense in putting the easily led warriors of this tribe to some use, so that they would not turn on them.  The question is, how?

I am am also thinking of putting a prophecy in the history of the tribe, where Sophronia (having just left the splintering Mynian kingdom with her charges) makes a speech reassuring them that they will find their place protected by a stonger power, but able to in turn offer their strength to the power to help maintain it.  It would have been no more than a leader making a speech to try to keep morale up at the time, but over the millennia it has become a "prophecy" imbued with significance.  If Thar was able to offer the Serphelorians a use for their army, as would have been sensible whether he knew about the prophecy or not, we then can have a very tidy reason as to why the Serphelorians joined the Santharian kingdom, too.

So, any ideas what the Army can be used for?
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« Reply #19 on: 02 January 2008, 19:47:46 »

Added two paragraphs in red at the end of the People main section:

One is on Serphelorian religion.  This is the overview from the religion entry; it replaces a meandering former paragraph, the substance of which will be covered in the religion entry (to follow soon).

The other, as requested by Talia, touches on how the Serphelorians affected the Darian, and also the rest of the kingdom, in their attitude toward women.

Still working on the religion entry, although I am pretty close to having something to post.  The question about the army, above, still stands  :)
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« Reply #20 on: 02 January 2008, 23:59:49 »

Well, on that army thing... Mayhaps - as we've been talking about the tribe's religion lately - the Serphelorian's (ot their elite) could form one of the Santhran's Orders deciated to Seyella? Quoted from the Santharian entry:

Quote
The Santhran's actual power comes from a series of orders, who swear an oath of loyalty to the kingdom of Santharia to preserve its boundaries and laws. More importantly they swear alligance to the Santhran. In return, the orders receive certain privileges and status.


You say that Serphelorian philosophy means "using the strength you have to protect the weak", so in this respect they could primarily be used as bodyguards or escorts (well, not in today's Earthen sense of "escort services"... lol ) - so as protectors in general. They could be quite famous for these services as protection is deeply anchored in their mind as a result from their long history. As they fully trust the Goddess of Destiny they are not afraid to give their life, should the Goddess demand such a sacrifice.

So these could be ideas how the Serphelorian army fits into Santharian society.
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« Reply #21 on: 03 January 2008, 01:22:35 »

Trade routes across Santharia aren't necessarily protected by the royal standing army (assuming we have such a thing in this Pax Trevala (or whatever our current king's name IS! ) (blushes for not remembering) - time of peace, that is.

I'd think merchants would be more than happy to have a pool of well-trained fighters / trustworthy mercenaries to draw from as 'caravan escorts', don't you?
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« Reply #22 on: 22 January 2008, 10:32:00 »

A few updates here (in orchid), including a preview of the overview to the Army.

Now working on the History, and the some details around Marriage and Childbearing.
« Last Edit: 23 January 2008, 04:15:50 by Grunok the Exile » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: 26 January 2008, 04:32:56 »

Question, Grun: Can we put some sort of label on this tribe? You know, Erpheronians are "Proudman", Sophronians are the "Misfit Tribe", Eyelians the "Tamers" etc. - what did we establish that "Serpheloria" could mean in detail? Did we define that already? Don't remember right now. huh
« Last Edit: 26 January 2008, 04:38:21 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #24 on: 26 January 2008, 05:15:57 »

It just means "from the city" - "ser" = from / around, phelor = city.  The '-ians' suffix is a Tharanian addition.  The name came about as they settled, and was then applied to the whole tribe with Quesvath.  It points to the difference between the nomadic previous life (Sophronians) and the settled new life (Serphelorians).

I thought of suggesting 'warriors' as a title, but there are so many people whom this would not fit.  'Protectors' could work, or something relating to their carefree nature (which should probably be in the overview - I will just fix that now). 

While we are talking about this sort of thing, please make sure you don't list them as the "Serphelorian Men"!  lol  Just "Serphelorians" would be much better I think! 
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« Reply #25 on: 26 January 2008, 05:21:40 »

Well, the second part of the tribe caption usually is the race. Otherwise you look at the titlle and don't know what race it is...
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« Reply #26 on: 26 January 2008, 05:30:28 »

Oh, I see... Perhaps 'Humans' might be a better way of putting it?  It might not fit as easily, but after all, we don't say the Quaelhoirhim Styros. 
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« Reply #27 on: 26 January 2008, 05:39:18 »

I can use "humans", ok. But well, "men" unfortunately is a very common abbreviation for humans, "human" sounds already pretty anthropological while "men" is the regular term. I didn't invent it personally...  grin
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« Reply #28 on: 26 January 2008, 06:45:31 »

Just make sure it's capitalized and you won't have any problem even with ardent rightists like myself, dear Sage.... :D

"The battle was won by Dwarves and Men
Making a stand for the border then,
Wielding their blades at the Venlaken,
Ready to face their fears...."
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« Reply #29 on: 26 January 2008, 16:35:05 »

Well, we have used races names throughout the site without capitalization, so it would be weird to introduce that here. I'll use "humans" then, just to avoid persecution...  grin

On the name: Ah, yes, you also have that explanation in the entry, but that explanation doesn't work too well as a label. Anyway, I was also thinking about the "Protectors" idea, and would consider "Warden" or shorter: "Ward". 'Serphelor' means 'from the city', so maybe they needed mainly people to protect others outside, and these were the "Wardens", sent out from the main city? Later this became synonymous for the whole tribe. Nowadays if you meet a strong lady in the tavern you might ask: "Now you aren't a Ward, aren't ya?"
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