* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Author Topic: Kavogerim - Dwarven Tongue  (Read 11234 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: 24 March 2008, 10:57:24 »

How about P/B instead of F/V?  I don't know about slurring, but it would sound different.  Or, for something softer, perhaps H or W? 
Logged

Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: 24 March 2008, 22:19:33 »

Yes, I did remove F/V to make the sound harder to the ear.

Hmmmm... the tenses made me thinking. I think I'll add one more tense.

Past tense - ate
"Just" past tense - just ate 
Present Progressive - Eating
Future Tense - Will eat

Just using english as my example  grin

The Just past tense (sorry no name for it yet) would be like a past tense but the action just happened not a long time ago. Of course, the length of time that would still be considered as "just happened" would be for the speaker.

And also, I am thinking of having the Kavogerim no consonant cluster (except for digraphs that are included in the alphabet). Meaning consonants are not allowed to be consecutive (most of the time). The regular formation of the words would be Consonant-Vowel-Consonant (like in Japanese).

All dipthongs (vowels pronounced like one syllable) would be formed mostly by "y" and "w" - semivowels. So for example (Not real Dwarven words): Ataul will have a and u will be pronounced as seperate letters. A'ta'ul not like if you would pronounce it in english as A'tau'l

What do you think???
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: 25 March 2008, 02:00:00 »

According to Wikipedia, that would be the immediate past tense.  But I have no idea how accurate that information is. 

The idea of there being no consonant clusters should be alright in itself, you might want to consider how this came about, as it could affect the vocabulary.  The Kavogerim and Thergerim languages have a common origin, I assume, and ThergerimTaal does have consonant clusters.  Did the ThergerimTaal clusters arise from vowels being lost in certain contexts, or did Kavogerim clusters collapse to become single consonants? 

Most likely both occurred to some extent, but giving some thought to that might help with deciding what cognate words look like.  For example, suppose the ancestor of both languages had the cluster /nb/, which ThergerimTaal preserved, but in the Kavogerim language became just /m/ , so the Kavogerim terms for 'mother' and 'son' might perhaps look something like 'Eemar' and 'Umol'.  Of course, you don't have to go around working out every single change, unless you really want to.  It'd be more realistic, but probably also a lot more tedious. 
Logged

Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: 25 March 2008, 03:31:44 »

Well I was thinking of this language having the rule: How you spell it is how you pronounce it or vice versa.
So foreign words will be "Kagoverimarized" (I have my own dictionary  :P )

Example the word: yehbol will be spelled as yebol (since I suppose h is silent)
Most th will become t
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: 27 March 2008, 14:46:46 »

I have finsihed the language here offline and I will be posting it within the next five days since I am quite busy. Then people can check if it is dwarven enough :)

How many words should I create????
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.650


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #20 on: 27 March 2008, 16:59:17 »

Well, unless you have a substantial vocabulary worth making an actual dictionary for (about a thousand), I would go for a simple list that has examples of how Kav differs from Ther, then perhaps the hundred basic words that every dwarf child should know :)  Some verbs, some nouns, a scattering of adjectives - people are not going to be translating texts into this tongue on a regular basic, so we don't really need more.

Say:  rock / deity / food / light / travel / eat / ... yanno, all the important ones!
Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: 28 March 2008, 03:09:27 »

Hmmm... words that they might actually use in daily activites makes sense  grin . Since the Kavogerim and trading dwarves then maybe they'll have more words concerning communication with other races than the Thergerim
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: 01 April 2008, 20:34:47 »

Sorry but this will have te be delayed. I have college things to fix now :) Just graduated  grin
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: 07 April 2008, 16:34:06 »

Ready for comments... a part of it anyway :)
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: 10 May 2008, 16:51:36 »

Quote
Dipthongs:
Ay, Ey, Iy, Oy, Uy
I'm not so familiar with these sorts of diphthongs, so I can't say for sure, but won't Iy be more or less the same as [i:] anyway? 

Quote
Kavogerim Alphabet: (Kavogerim adds the vowel "a" when reciting the alphabet)
A Ba Ka Da Dya E Ga Ha I La Ma Na O Pa Ra Sa Sya Ta Tsa U Ya
Um... this is not quite an abugida.  When representing the language with the roman alphabet, I think it's best to use it as an alphabet, rather than try to get it to work as an abugida-like system.  The actual script the Kavogerim use could be an abugida though.  Speaking of which, have you made one?  If not, maybe I'll have a go at it. 

Quote
Example: OKaanAtaUm = O (do) + Kaan (close) + Ata (eye) + Um (ing) = Sleeping
              Bag-oKita= Bag-o (before) + Kita (us) = Older or elder
This is mostly just compounding, which is a fairly common way of forming words.  You might want to include more information on other ways of deriving words, such as the Um suffix in your first example. 

Also, the examples you have seem quite oligosynthetic, with even a rather basic word like 'sleep' being a compound.  It's usually considered quite unrealistic, so you might want to avoid doing this too much.  Most of the basic words, like those Bard Judith mentioned, should probably be single morphemes. 
Logged

Helvíl Ypherén
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 313



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: 10 May 2008, 21:55:37 »

Yeah sure you can create the orthography (I am quite horrible when it comes to drawing)  grin

The letters will be same but it will no longer be an Abugida as well.
Logged

I was known as Shansi before :)
My Development Schedule
Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: 11 May 2008, 05:04:00 »

I'll see what I can come up with then.  Might take a while though, depending on how long it takes for me to get inspired.  Is there any particular style the characters should have? 

I just noticed, you have phonemes represented by 'd', 's', 'y', 'dy', and 'sy', which might get confusing.  It shouldn't matter too often, since as you said consonant clusters are rare, but when clusters like s+y appear, is there any way to distinguish them from 'sy' in writing?  Also, your diphthongs end in 'y', which might cause similar problems. 
Logged

Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: 12 September 2008, 18:19:32 »

Are you still around, Helvil?  I just realised a possible problem: you can't say 'Kavogerim' in the language, because there's no 'v' sound.  Would only be a problem if you want 'Kavogerim' to be what they call themselves and not merely what others call them though. 
Logged

Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.650


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #28 on: 12 September 2008, 21:21:14 »

Haven't seen any progress on this for a while.  Not holding breath.   I do not think a separate dwarven language has a great deal of priority for other developers, so it can wait for Helvil indefinitely afaic.   


Mina - totally correct.  It'd have to be 'Kah-boh-gae-rrrim'  - rather like Korean, actually.... :)
Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Pages: 1 [2]
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[27 March 2019, 00:01:57]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1019
Latest: lolanixon
Stats
Total Posts: 144588
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 45
Online Ever: 700
(23 January 2020, 20:05:39)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 23
Total: 23

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx