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Author Topic: The Kaaer'dár'shín Half-Orcs - 1st Revision  (Read 25476 times)
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Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #30 on: 24 May 2008, 01:44:58 »

I've just read through your draft, Azhira, and like what I see so far.

There are a few typo's, but I'll do those when you get nearer the end, if you haven't found them already!

The sub-clan you mention with more of an Orcish influence, I may have an idea for you. The Ashz-oc are very prominent (GEDDIT?) in that region, and they are not beyond exiling tribe members for various reasons. These exiles, who I will write about at a later date, have tended to group together as a "safety in numbers" kind of thing. They would be searching for a place to settle, or at least a place to steal food/clothes/weapons from, and this would probably lead them into conflict or possibly even trade/partnership with those on the fringes of the Kaaer'dar'shin society.
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« Reply #31 on: 24 May 2008, 02:16:21 »

Well...I wasn't really planning to develop a sub-clan. At least not now.

However...

Your idea of perhaps an outcast group of orcs banding together and interacting/interbreeding with the newly settled humans long ago could be the genesis of the Kaaer'dár'shín as they are known today. Perhaps the orcen influence began when outcast Ashz-Oc got word that they could possibly find shelter and trade among a group of humans who recently settled nearby. Initially, relations were hostile, but the two races managed to help each other slowly by trading goods and services. After all, the humans and outcasts both had a mutual enemy from the main orc tribes anyway, so why not set aside some differences and begin a shaky alliance? Which leads to intermarriage and interbreeding...much like how the Mexican Indians came to be integrated with the Spanish conquerers.
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« Reply #32 on: 24 May 2008, 02:39:56 »

Well there you go! Easy when you know how, eh?
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« Reply #33 on: 24 May 2008, 05:30:11 »

Hey Azhira

Just some quick comments, I haven't made it all the way through yet. I've stayed away from the geography, as I've not even looked at a North Sarvonian map.

Quote
They are also shorter than most men, with both sexes standing an average of 1.5 peds. Due to this heavier build, their average weight is typically between 1.8 to 2.4 pygges

I don't know if this is a site-wide rule, but I know Talia doesn't like the idea of decimals in measurements, or numbers. i.e. 1.5 peds being one ped, a fore and two palmspans perhaps . Might be fine, but just mentioning it.

~

Quote
but the shape is square and blocked like that any other human tribe

As Tharoc said there's a few typos and things, and I was by no means looking for them all. This one leaped out, and wouldn't get spotted by a spell check so I'm pointing it out. You're missing an 'of' after 'like that'.

~

Quote
Even within the Kaaer'dár'shín, pointed ears signify a sort of special wisdom and tend to be revered moreso than someone with non-pointed ears.


I'm not sure the coloured part of this sentence really adds anything. But it does make it a little awkward to read. I think it works fine just ending at 'revered', but if you think that implies too much veneration, perhaps reword it slightly...  "...and tend to be treated with some reverence."

~

Quote
A boy with long hair is considered an outcast and brings dishonor to their families as only a male who has passed the age of manhood can choose to wear long hair.

This point seem odd, given that it is the fathers that shave their sons heads. Surely a father simply wouldn't allow a boy to grow his hair? I don't put them down as a tribe that would put up with a insolent child. He would simply be held down and his head shaved whether he wanted to or not.

~

Quote
It is here, between two rivers and two gulfs, is where the Kaaer'dár'shín thrive on the fishing and wooly boar that inhabit the area.

The 'is' isn't required.

~

Quote
They are isolated from other human tribes and their inter-breeding with orcs over the many years of the tribe's existence has cultivated in a culture of war

Cultivated seems the wrong word. Did you mean 'culminated'?

~

Quote
Warriors are expected to be in good physical shape and to be strong and agile.

This point seems moot, given that you explain how everyone is expected to be in peak physical fitness. Unless you intended for them to be 'in even greater physical shape' etc.

~

Quote
A skilled weaponsmith can produce finely honed daggers of steel that are very light in weight and easy to conceal.

There existence doesn't (so far as I've read) seem to indicated any need for subtefuge or concealment of weapons. Does it matter that these daggers are easy to conceal? Surely making weapons that are obvious and threatening would be more intimidating to their enemies? If there were heavy traders with tribes in the south, I would appreciate this could be a good selling point. But you state they aren't.

~

Quote
The warriors are expected to function more or less as nomadic and can move their bromer with them when they travel.

"...as nomads,"

Also, something requiring a wagon and horse to move doesn't sound 'that' convenient to a warrior strike force. Is the whole warrior party fitting in one bromer? If so, then maybe.

But if there are several bromer per party, requiring several wagons and horses for dragging (their swift, stealthy war horses don't sound like the sort to pull wagons) it sounds rather cumbersome. Perhaps they establish a strike camp with their bromer, and then move out into 'no mans land' (where the skirmishes happen) and utilise some form of smaller, lighter tent structure for overnight camps?

~

That's all my comments for now. I'll get round to reading the rest soon, I'm sure.

Fascinating work, clearly tribe development is a big undertaking. I'm impressed.

Happy Dreamin' :)
« Last Edit: 24 May 2008, 06:53:15 by Smee » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: 25 May 2008, 11:31:17 »

Thanks for the comments, Smee!

Somebody stop me now if this sounds crazy...but I am thinking of changing the direction of where this tribe is going...

I've been looking deeper into the history of Caeel’heroth, and also thinking of Arti's comment (seen above) and I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have this tribe as first migrating to the area, descendants of the Kuglimz, and then during the Sarvonian Wars (whatever those were...someone help me there...) the Kaaer tribe were corrupted and subdued by the Osther-Oc (under orders from their masters, the dark elves) and were forced to submit to a life of servitude.

During this time, the orcs intermingled (forcibly, I might add...as in raped) these poor Kaaer humans and thus began the orcish influence in the tribe - culture, religion and half-orc children.

In fact, as Arti also suggested, there could be two clans - one human and one with the half-orc heritage. The tribe at some point fought for some independence and won it, or at least won a shaky cease fire with the Osther-Oc, and began to really grow as a tribe.

Crazy, I know...but perhaps it fits better given the dark influence of the Caeel’heroth region?  huh
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« Reply #35 on: 27 May 2008, 04:51:15 »

Well, the idea you pitch here in your last post definitely has some interesting aspects, Azhira. It would help establishing some connections between Northern Sarvonian tribes and history, leading consequently to a more darker chapter up northwest and make it more corrupt and bleak, or at least parts of it. The proud Kuglimz ancestry would then be mostly lost I think or perverted to a degree. This would really be something unique we don't have yet in a similar way on the site and there could be an half-orcen and a human heritage, and the later would be very much aware that the orcen side can be pretty strong, so that's why the human side might be more willing to play with corruption and such in order to keep the orcen influence at bay. Just something that developed from the historical development you sketched, Azhira. I guess it could work very well that way. It is definitely something to consider as it makes things really fascinating in my point of view.

Still need to read the most part of the entry, but as you're not excactly sure in which direction you want to progress, I thought I'd throw that comment at least in, I guess changing the direction at least somewhat towards such ideas would be very interesting in the long run.
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #36 on: 27 May 2008, 06:13:47 »

This is really looking impressive!  And all these great ideas!  I like Art's suggestion of a "darker chapter" of history up North.    Ashira seems to be working in that direction and I say it works for me.

 I'm sorry I haven't been able to do a  second complete check yet.  My daughter has a birthday party (mermaid theme) coming up and I am very busy organizing (in some cases inventing!) games, crafts, and other activities, not to mention all the shopping for loot bags, decorations, food, etc.  It's cheaper than renting one of those party places (which, on the low side run at $200 plus about $15 per guest--food is also an extra!) but it does mean a lot of extra work for me.

Anyway, I'll try to get to it yet, but I'm afraid my Prominent Mountains entry might not get done this week, never mind my (and Tharoc's!) plan for a....well, you'll just have to wait and see (chortles evilly before rushing off to get supper ready)

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« Reply #37 on: 27 May 2008, 08:33:21 »

Ok, Azhira, I've gone as far as weapons, but my eyes are going funny now, so I'll do the rest tomorrow night.

Here's what I've found so far, in yellow:

APPEARANCE:
the tribes orcen ancestry has given

interestingly enough, the the  -  remove one of the the's

do not possess pointed front teeth  -  neither do the Ashz-oc (see pic in tribe entry)

square and blocked like that of any other

as many as five or more fewer teeth  -  with five or more fewer teeth

shaved with a sharp blade  -  just as a point of possible interest, having access to the coast, they could use shells such as scallop. This is an ancient practice still in use today in some areas. Just a thought.

the boy must choose (or sometimes have chosen

Kaaer'dar'shin women are often wearing plain clothing with very little styles done to their hair.  -  Kaaer'dar'shin women usually wear plain clothing, with equally plain hairstyles to match.

with no notable appearances  -  with nothing of note about their appearance.

COAT OF ARMS:
with two prongs branching off of it  -  delete the "of"

each representing one of the two

a dagger is engraved in the wood and pointing at an angle, a representation of long ago.  -  why is the dagger at an angle, and why is it a representation of long ago?

TERRITORY:
Question. Is there any particular reason they chose this place as their home?

Kaaer'dar'shins main area of occupation

between two rivers and two gulfs.  -  do the rivers and gulfs have names?

is where the Kaaer'dar'shin thrive  -  delete this "is", you already used it at the start of the sentence, this one is extra.

PEOPLE:
harsh environment from which they found themselves in  -  delete this "from" 

from the age of five to the age of manhood, at age thirteen  -  one of these has got to go

all boys are assumed to become warriors   -  it is assumed that all boys will become warriors

masters of the "hit and run" style of tactics

a typical war party is composed of ten warriors, sometimes more or less, depending....

skill in making lightweight metal weapons is renowned  -  and do these weapons have special names?

HOUSING:
mountain bison, which also provides them

these housings  -  houses or dwellings

are composed of a wooden frame of logs  -  what, no walls or roof?

within the main colony and inhabit these larger buildings

CLOTHING:
the north can be a quite cold with  -  delete

as well as lightweight movement

hide of the woolly boar or the mountain bison

hide of thewoolly boar makes

leather sole pads for stealth, with the hide

woolly boar tusks

carry round three pronged bucklers  -  do they carry them around, or are the bucklers round?

DIET:
their main staple diet  -  you could delete either of these words

fish are also an occasional source of meat

berries and vegetables  -  which ones?

WEAPONS:
and upon horseback

made from the trees of the Themed'lon forest  -  any particular species?

the buckler is the most prized possession

made of wood, bound with the hide

a boy who makes a kill on his first raid is deemed especially talented and blessed, and is steered towards the path of becoming a shaman one day  -  surely they would consider him more suited to follow the path of the warrior?

Anyway, I'm really enjoying reading this entry, and they seem like they will be formidable enemies for my Orcs! I think I may "borrow" your lizard armour for the Ashz-oc. Well, when I say borrow, I actually mean I'll get the Orcs to kill a few of your tribe and steal it!
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« Reply #38 on: 27 May 2008, 21:35:46 »

Thanks Tharoc!

I think I found my direction... :D I've re-written the overview and it summarizes where I plan to go now.

"Overview:

The Kaaer'dár'shín is a tribe composed of  two similarly distinct clans – a pure-blooded human clan and a human clan with orcen ancestry. This clan was originally an offshoot of the Kuglimz tribe and broke off from the main Kuglimz before the major Sarvonian wars. This large group of Kuglimz migrated to the north western Sarvonian region of Caael'heroth in the Themed'lon forest, northwest of the Imlith Mountains along the southwest coast of the Gulf of Oh'Cant'aelwyn. Soon after establishing their colony, the humans encountered dark and corrupt tribes from northern Caael'heroth, most notably the Osther-Oc orcs, and the tribe soon fell into corruption and forsook the noble Kuglimz ways and was forced to embrace much of the orcen culture, most notably, the interbreeding with the Osther-Oc producing many half-orc children. Both clans of the Kaaer'dár'shín now exist in a bleak, ravaged culture, and fight constant battles for territory with the Ashz-Oc orcs to the south and their Osther-Oc cousins to the north. The Kaaer'dár'shín are a barbaric, hunter/gatherer tribe, with very few similarities to their Kuglimz ancestors and are a tribe that the Kuglimz would rather forget."
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« Reply #39 on: 27 May 2008, 22:38:09 »

Actually, we Kuglimz typically won't admit to any blood relationship with these...people... (disdainful sniff)  They rank right down there with the Ashmari tribe( rabid wolf people) and we are quite infuriated that tales about the Kaaer and the Ashmari have given southerners the idea that we are all "crazy barbarian killers"--with orcish blood yet!-- up there in the North.

 The Kuglimz version of this is that these people were criminals and tribal exiles (which may have some veracity--somewhat like England's criminals being shipped off to Australia, for an RL example)  and that little better can be expected from their descendants than to breed with orcs.

(I personally do recognize that this is rather unfair, but bigotry, discrimination, and class distinctions did and do exist in RL and it's unrealistic to assume they would not raise their ugly heads here, hmm?)

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« Reply #40 on: 28 May 2008, 02:58:17 »

Yeah, I like that approach very much you've sketched there (obviousy, because I suggested something in this direction) - but as Alysse also said the not-so-nice things make things realistic. Now you have them linked to the Kuglimz, but not so that both sides would be proud of it. And we have the orcs there on the other side, determining the fate of the tribe. And of course all those evil things that go on up there by default. This is a cool development and provides nice conflict potentional for everyone (see e.g. Alysse's post... *hehe*). Very different to southern Sarvonian tribes of today - lots of potential therefore to expand whenever you need something interesting to happen! Just continue on with that twist, I love it! thumbup
« Last Edit: 28 May 2008, 03:00:34 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #41 on: 28 May 2008, 03:06:58 »

I can see a slight issue with the fighting fot territory with the Ashz-oc. The Ashz-oc are listed as not being interested in fighting for more territory, but concern themselves with defending what they have. Perhaps you should reflect this in your entry, ie, it' is the Kaaer'dar'shin who cause the fighting, not the Ashz-oc. I don't really want to change the Ashz-oc temperament, as I intend to keep them as "cool headed" as possible.
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« Reply #42 on: 28 May 2008, 03:37:55 »

Thanks for all the comments!

I will definitely keep going in this direction and perhaps change the history to reflect that the Kaaer tribe were originally exiles and criminals forced to leave the Kuglimz homeland and find somewhere else to dwell. They journeyed northeast and founded a new colony in the Themed'lon area (ie as in the Australian example).

Now, if I take Tharoc's suggestion...which makes sense...I could have the Kaaer's conflict mostly with the Osther-Oc. Those orcs tend to move south into Kaaer territory and vice versa...the Kaaer moving north to expand. Instant conflict.

I'd say that the Kaaer wouldn't move south as there lies the Ashz-Oc and the main Kuglimz peoples which wouldn't desire the Kaaer back anyway.

Essentially, the Kaaer are an unpredictable tribe, bitter at having been exiled so long ago and with orcen influence making them not only formidable in battle, but with a mixed, corrupt culture - almost similar to the Ashmari, but under orc control rather than dark elven control.

Whew! Now we're starting to make some sense here... :D
« Last Edit: 28 May 2008, 03:39:31 by Azhira El´rosse » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: 28 May 2008, 03:52:51 »

And don't forget that the Osther-oc are usualy mercenaries, they will fight for themselves, but they prefer to be paid. And they aren't above a little double-dealing, so that could work in your favour!
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« Reply #44 on: 28 May 2008, 23:44:12 »

Second draft ready for comment!

I've tweaked some of the entry...

 - Removed the hair styles (too clunky)

 - Added the Blood Defender (a separate entry to be made at a later time)

 - Added Religion

 - Added History

I decided not to create two separate tribes of humans and half-orcs. I've instead kept the original intent of fully integrating them as humans with orcen blood and making them more along the lines of Osther-Oc culture. The Kaaer'dár'shín haven't sank to the low of the Ashmari, but are still quite distant from their Kuglimz cousins. I tried to make a middle ground somewhere.
« Last Edit: 29 May 2008, 00:06:21 by Azhira El´rosse » Logged

No, I would not want to live in a world without dragons, as I would not want to live in a world without magic, for that is a world without mystery, and that is a world without faith. And that, I fear, for any reasoning, conscious being, would be the cruelest trick of all.
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