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Author Topic: Tribal/clan/race tattoos  (Read 7319 times)
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Tharoc Wargrider
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« on: 11 May 2008, 04:46:19 »

Hi, everybody, I don't usually come in here, but I find myself in need of your expert help.
I am in the very early stages of preparing what I hope will become the definative work on tattooing in Santharia, to include tribal/clan/race tattoos/ists, as well as equipment, methods, meanings, images etc. I could spend the next 20 years reading through every entry in the compendium, or I could come to you, the experts, and ask if you could point me in the direction of anyone in Santharia who wears tattoos, for any reason. I'll take it from there, but will work with the relevant person if there is anything which needs resolving, ie: what dyes are used, what images are worn and why.

Anything you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Tharoc  cool

Er, I've just realised how much work this will involve, because I want to do it properly. Do you think I should keep it as an ongoing project to eventually use as my masterwork? Or would that have to be something even bigger? I was originally planning on doing an in-depth work on the Ashz-oc as a masterwork. What do y'all think?
« Last Edit: 11 May 2008, 05:01:41 by Tharoc Wargrider » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 11 May 2008, 05:21:53 »

Did you find a reference to a project like this in the Misc. forum? I feel like someone else had this idea a year back...

Tharoc, while Tattoos are considerably smaller, I attempted something like this with ships when I started. As you've obviously realized, it is an immense amount of work and you might consider focusing on the Tattoos of just one tribal group. I mentioned the Tethinrhim because while Uragel was the official expert, I was hoping personally to try and fill his shoes so to speak and continue work on that tribes' things. The tattooing for them is extensive, involving a complex birth tattoo, (a picture of which is on the site) and tattoos for the Kaierian warriors. (I'm luring you in to do my work for me, aren't I crafty! ;))

So my 2 sans is that you pick a smaller group and work on their tattoos. Of course, if others feel differently I will write you a more detailed description of what i'm kind've thinking about for the Tethinrhim, and you can include it as one of your sections. The choice, of course, will eventually be yours. :)

Other opinions?
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Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #2 on: 11 May 2008, 05:28:24 »

Thanks, Dru. Yes, I realise what I'm letting myself in for, but I've made my mind up, so that's that. I will try to find the mention in the Misc. forum, just to make sure I'm not treading on any toes, though.
I accept what you say about breaking it down into smaller chunks, I had already decided that was the way forward, but eventually, I hope to build it up into a cohesive whole and provide a definative view of the art of tattooing in Santharia. It may take a while but, hey, I'm going nowhere.

So, if anybody has any info for me, just send it in. It may not appear for quite a while, but it will appear, you can be sure of that!
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Drúadan
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« Reply #3 on: 11 May 2008, 05:30:33 »

I don't think you are stepping on anybody's toes, if I remember the guy who wanted to do it was only a couple days into coming here...

Very well, I'll get you lots of info on Tethinrhim tattoos, though might be a day or two, cause im pretty busy with RL at the moment.

Good Luck! :)
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Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind,
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves,
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach,
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.


-Bob Dylan "Mr. Tambourine Man"
Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #4 on: 11 May 2008, 05:33:27 »

RL? Ye Gods, man, forget that. There are far more important things to do!

I've already seen the birth tatto stuff, and made a note of it. But any other info on it would be great.

Is there any way of printing pages off the site, to save me writing reams of stuff out?
I bet there is, isn't there, and I'm just to dumb to have seen it! If I try to copy/paste, I just get squiggly lines printed.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2008, 05:39:35 by Tharoc Wargrider » Logged

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Drúadan
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« Reply #5 on: 11 May 2008, 05:42:47 »

I copy paste to microsoft word and it works fine for me... did you change to text coloer to black in your word processor?

Forgetting RL means ignoring Mother's Day. I choose life.  ;)
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Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind,
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves,
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach,
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.


-Bob Dylan "Mr. Tambourine Man"
Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #6 on: 11 May 2008, 05:53:15 »

Ah, point taken!

DOH! *changes font colour to black, hoping nobody notices*

I've just found the original entry on the Misc. board. No new posts since May last year, so I assume it's ok to continue. I got some good leads from it as well, so that's a bonus!
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #7 on: 11 May 2008, 05:54:44 »

Tharoc, take Dru's advice and start smaller. There is more than one example that people had great plans and it was hard to follow them. Well, at least you said Santharia and not Caelereth ;)

The Shendar, especially the Shen-D'auras have henna tattoos on hands and feet. The problem is, I have mentioned them, but not yet described and don't want to do this soon. But I do want to design them myself.

There might be another problem. Even if you use the General Bellring, there might be a lot of stuff nobody here recalls. You can use the search function though and type in "tattoo" or "pattern" and look through all the relevant entries and read and collect stuff first. Then you can see, if what we have is worth an entry. You can't invent tattoos for tribes yourself you have not written or are working with, if that was what you intended, just collect them . So, tattoos are surely a look worth, but if there is enough on the site to justify an entry you have to find out first.
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Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #8 on: 11 May 2008, 06:08:22 »

Thanks, Talia. I've already agreed that breaking this topic down into smaller chunks would be best, ie: a tribe/clan at a time.

I plan on doing a search for tattoo references tomorrow.

I accept what you say about people starting with big plans, but the difference is that I've realised what lies ahead early on, not started and then thought "OMG. What have I got myself into."

I already have quite an extensive knowledge of the history of tattooing, and the methods used (including tribal methods), and the equipment (old and new), so that part would just be a case of fitting it into Santharian boundaries.

And I do intend to keep this to Santharia/Sarvonia at the moment, possibly including Nybelmar if anyone requests it.

Thanks again for your input, Talia, it's much appreciated.
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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #9 on: 11 May 2008, 06:29:50 »

My personal reccomendation? Start with the tatoos of the Ashz-oc orcs, or mabye just do a general overview on tattooing for know. Perhaps a template something like the Industry one
Overview
Description (certain popular designs, eg. do Thegrim runes hold popularity over the younger Erephonians?)
Method of Production (materials, etc.)
Usage (Here would be a good place to put a brief blurb about various races and tribes. if you choose to mention Eyelians, I have a few ideas there....)
History of Tattooing (what culture "invented" it, how long has it been allowed, any laws passed forbidding them, etc.)
Lore and Legend (No end to the possibilities her. Do tattos give warriors strength? Do they act as ragents for spells? The possibilities of urban myth here are endless)
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

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Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #10 on: 11 May 2008, 06:38:20 »

This is brilliant! I didn't realise how much interest this would provoke. Don't worry, everyone, I'm keeping my feet firmly on the ground with this.  It's a subject I'm very passionate about (for those of you who don't know, I'm training to be a tattooist. I've been at it for four years now, in my spare time.), so I want to make sure its done right. And for me, that means taking my time with it, not biting off to big a chunk at one time, and doing the proper research. But with the reaction I've had so far, I don't think the research is going to be too much of a problem!

Oh, and Nsikigan, PM me your ideas and I'll see where they will fit. Any questions and I'll let you know.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2008, 06:40:17 by Tharoc Wargrider » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2008, 00:23:09 »

I am eager to see this one comint Tharoc, it will be thoroughly referred to in the (eventual) Faen Tribe Entry, as these merchants are covered in one expansive tattoo detailing their life.
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« Reply #12 on: 12 May 2008, 00:50:21 »

I don't know why many people always assume that starting with an Overview is a bad thing -  especially when a subject is not fully developed -  and that it then becomes sacred and definitive and can never be altered or added to.

 I am firmly in the other camp:  I believe that a) an Overview provides guidance, a helpful outline of what HAS been developed and what needs yet to be done, b) an ideal organizational tool which allows dev'ers to find what they are looking for more swiftly c) examples and standards of 'award-winning' entries, acceptable entries, and undeveloped / 'need redoing' entries  all in one place.

I'm all for creating Overviews at the beginning of a project rather than the end.  An overview should be regarded as flexible and updateable from time to time as new information is filled in.  In fact, the information an Overview gives should be as brief and distinctive as possible in order to allow for other developers' creativity and involvement later on.

 The entry on Musical Instruments, for example, if I were ever to actually put it up... er... perhaps that's not the best example...  but have a look at Snacks of Santharia, or Drinks....   new foodstuffs can be added in as they are created, making it a useful 'dictionary' of items already sorted out.   

Perhaps now WOULD be a good time to create the Tattoos, Scarifications, and Body Paintings Overview for Santharia.  There's plenty to put in, even just the undeveloped mentions, and lots of space for adding more as new tribes (the Faen, for one) are written up. 

Oh, did I forget d) in the list above?  Overviews make great Team projects - people who are all interested in the same general area suddenly have a spot to fill in and a place for their hitherto aimless random ideas.  "Oh, hey, I was just thinking about giving the XXXerim Dwarves some unique facial scars to indicate their status in the tribe!"  "Great, come on over and write a paragraph as a placeholder for now and I'll add them in."  And lo and behold, the XXXerim Dwarves have their scars cross-referenced even before they have their own entry - possibly encouraging that developer to put them back on the front burner... :)

My two or three sans' worth - other thoughts on this?
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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #13 on: 12 May 2008, 00:58:45 »

I too, am firmly in your camp Judy. I find overviews not only to be helpful and easily updatable, but they provide a lot of guidence, and can easily act as templates for the more detailed entries. They also help the general orginization of the site.
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

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Tharoc Wargrider
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« Reply #14 on: 12 May 2008, 01:37:12 »

So, do you think I should create a new post outlining what I'm aiming to do, and ask anyone with any info to post it? I already have 5 different tribes who have tattoo's of some description, and Rookie is going to give the Rat Brownies some kind of mark.

Questions for greater minds than mine :

I was directed to the Sor'inyt, or Sand Sisters (facial tat's), but the person who dev'd them doesn't seem to be around anymore. I need to know what pigments the tat's were made with, there is some info on a berry they use for dying cloth, could I use a derivative of that? And don't you think their name suits having a tattoo? It sounds like Sore, Innit?

As an Ashz-oc member, and seeing as how the dev. of that tribe also doesn't seem to be around anymore, could I take responsibility for creating their tat's? It will tie in nicely with the creation myth I'm doing, and will give us a tribal "coat of arms" to boot, and maybe some individual clan badges. And I hope to be able to do a full revision of the Ashz-oc entry at some time. Any objections?

You raised an interesting point there, Judith. Should I go the whole hog and include scarification, branding, piercing, henna, etc? Perhaps include all forms of body modification? I can't see it being too much extra work. And if everything is in one place like you say, it will be a useful tool for everyone to use. Mrs Wargrider has suggested including any unusual hairstyles as well, but I don't know. Maybe if it is a distinct tribal marker it would be useful?

I'm going to have a think for a couple of days about how best to set everything out, then I'll post it and we can jiggle it about 'till it's right.

Once again, thanks for everyones input  grin


I think it's a good idea to keep this as an ongoing project. After all, new tribes and races are being discovered all the time, so it would be silly to set a deadline on entries.

I'm amazed at the response/interest my initial post on this created. I was only trying to sound people out, get a little feedback etc. It seems it's a subject no-one really thinks about until someone mentions it. I'm commited (maybe I should be!) to carrying this project through and hope to get as many people as possible involved.

I would be interested to hear your views, Arti, when you've finished messing about with the update!
« Last Edit: 12 May 2008, 02:01:47 by Tharoc Wargrider » Logged

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