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Author Topic: The Kyranian Men (Masterwork)  (Read 16436 times)
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Garret Arroway
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« Reply #45 on: 12 August 2008, 14:24:37 »

Can't hurt to take a shot at it. Worse case scenario, I can't help and your back where you started grin. If you'd be so kind and lead me in the right direction, I'll take a look at what your talking about tonight and/or tomorrow mornin or whenever you have time to send it and see what can be done off the top of my head and PM you some ideas/stuff. :)

I'd love some help on Religion if possible. I was going to dive into the religion section tomorrow and take in all I could and hopefully come up with something presentable (still probably will do some more readin in that area), but religion is a bit of a sore subject after spendin two weeks with my grandpa.

Edits: Tonight is now offically "Fable Fest" for me and my brother as we intend to beat the game before mornin (which my brother says can't be done but I've done it before on my own). Anyways, makin the best of my last two weeks before school. Edits to newly commented upon sections should be up late tomorrow or the next day depending when I wake up. grin Just another one of my pointless heads ups. *Wanders off to play Fable: The Lost Chapters*
« Last Edit: 12 August 2008, 14:37:39 by Garret Arroway » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: 12 August 2008, 14:46:52 »

Fab!   Have a look at the Caltharians, just a bit down the list:  http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,11948.0.html

There is a Caltharian Time Table on the site - I just haven't the energy to do anything realistic with it, or with the suggestions in the thread.

I shall throw some ideas out today/tonight, so you can have a look and see what you like tomorrow (er, when you wake up.  Don't strain your eyes or wrists on 'Fable Fest'!)
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« Reply #47 on: 13 August 2008, 04:32:41 »

That's a terrible long and detailed submission, Garret! Couldn't read all! (And it is still not finished) Must be at least one Coren! ;)
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« Reply #48 on: 19 August 2008, 13:47:41 »

An uri is in progress - but give it time, please! An entry as thorough and Corenesque as this needs not a rushing editor.
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« Reply #49 on: 19 August 2008, 16:05:47 »

Ah! This is over a Coren- Its about 1.4 actually- Gosh!

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« Reply #50 on: 20 August 2008, 00:06:50 »

*whispers* Is that possible?
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« Reply #51 on: 20 August 2008, 00:23:54 »

My Marmara is over 1 C and I've only done one section (excluding the overview)
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« Reply #52 on: 20 August 2008, 05:22:26 »

Ok, on we go with the detailed check - let's see what's still missing:

Occupations.
(Tenses problems as usual throughout the section... The question is also how you deal with it in current terms - the challenge here is to have Caltharian identity still preserved and get that across sections like this one.)
Kyranians usually had their hands in what every type of trade or task they could, finding where their talent hid and using it to their advantage, but like every tribe they also had their preferred areas. Many peasants believe that the nobility never worked, but that was untrue. If anything these people did all that was required of them most of the time, with some slacking in certain areas. They were landowners first and foremost and were charged with keeping peace over the land and people they had authority and protect those people as best as they could. When it came to the protection, some were rather lax, but if things got back for the people the King would send people to deal with it.

The other, less liked, jobs of these people were the role as tax collector and recruiter. While the first one explains itself the second one might not. It was their job to send out soldiers once a year to those within their area that showed signs of being larger than usual and the day after the Manhood Ceremony, they were sent to round up and take all those that wished to enlist in one of the four branches of the military (five branches for nobility) where stationed (the army in any city, the navy on the coast, the knights in the capital, the guard in any city, and the Pathfinders in the capital). (This part isn't formulated very well with all those brackets.)

The merchants of the cities had other business to attend to. They commonly supported and bought items like clothing, pelts, alcohol, weapons, beautifully crafted wood pieces, and more from the people of the city before going off to sell them elsewhere. When they returned they would bring goods from the various places they visited to please the market of their home city. It was common for a rich merchant to buy the services of a peasant who had never had the chance at an apprenticeship but had a knack for a certain task and unique style. That merchant paid a small fee a month plus the price they had set per item so that they could have something different to sell in their home city as well as foreign cities as well.

The men that enlisted into one of the branches of military had their own tasks to complete. Each branch had their own area to watch, protect, and control. The army was mainly concerned with the welfare of the entire kingdom and watching for trouble from all sides. Navy knew nothing more than the troubles at sea, and as small as it was they did a fair job of protecting the coasts throughout the years. (I miss the world of Caelereth here - who attacked, why? etc. Something that makes this entry better anchored in our world, should be added at such passages.) The guard was the main force seen by the people as they protected the cities while the hunters, scouts, and for a time, Wargriders of the Pathfinders protected the countryside. The knights on the other hand were revered but held no place in the daily lives of the people. (This is written very generally.)

Craftsmen specialized in certain areas and sold their own works, often competing with the other craftsmen in the city. Among the many crafts of cities, the Kyranians had a good deal of talented smiths throughout the years and one of their trade goods were the works of these men, sold to allies during times of war. Bowyers and carpenters were also fairly skilled at what they did and there was often much competition between the workers of the crafts (bowyers competing with bowyers and carpenters competing with carpenters) within the marketplace. The lesser renown but necessary crafts included clothiers/tailors, cobblers, furriers, and leather workers. Of course those that went without saying among these people were brewers, weavers, and stone cutters as they were never really recognized for their work, but it was all around them.

Peasants often focused on the simple things such as herding, raising livestock, breeding the Rusik horses that lived on their land, fishing, and some hunting. The kingdom had some of the best livestock for a time and their horses, while not commonly expensive, where well liked. The inn-keeps, tavern owners, cooks, bartenders, and waitresses of the city came from this crowd along with the make-shift storytellers and minstrels more often than not in that area. A variety of other tasks could be completed by these people and some even made a living working with what they could and selling their works to merchants that would take them.

(This could have been catgeorized a bit better as well, so that we can make sections with captions. Like military professions, and more basic professions, maybe split into own paragraphs if you find proper names. The ideal tribe entry for me features an Occupation section where you can view the absolute key professions instantly, or at least the categories and read details in the description. Example: Look at the Erpheronian entry. Here you'll see immediately that the Erpheronians are fully centered around the military, that smiths are the next in line and that the other aspects of this tribe are covered with the miners, the traders and the scholars. All of that has an importance for the tribe as a whole, and the priorities are pretty clear. This isn't so obvious in this section here. Important is to work on what the tribe is really about, where it focusses on - this should be prominently featured in sections like this.)

Government.
Throughout the life of the Kyranian Kingdom, a typical monarchy was the favoured system of government. From the beginning of the Kingdom of Towers (11640 b.S.) until the fall of the Kyranian Kingdom (806 b.S.) the system held, though changes were made, which is to be expected in government. The most basic and regal of ranks were always present, while lesser titles (numerous one created at the King’s whim for little more than decoration) showing up every now and then. The most majestic and respected (though sometimes hated) persons were the monarchs themselves.

While technically, the ruler could be a king or queen, the Kyranian’s only had a few known queens since only those that could prove themselves in the three tests were to be considered an heir. Most of the queens of the Kyranian Kingdom were the only childs of their family and their father (the king) forced them to learn the skills needed to claim their rights as heir to the throne. When the former ruler died in times of peace, a week of mourning would be called for. During that time, no court sessions were called and the King’s children were allowed time to mourn and prepare their father's funeral. After the period of inactivity, the heir or next king would prepare for their coronation.

(It's not clear if the position is inherited or if a test is always taken after the king's death or how this works precisely. Also, whenever I read tribe entries, I'm looking for things that are very specific for that tribe, that stand out, that make the difference. This is seriously lacking here. It could be any kingdom you're describing here, and that's not overly exciting.

Here's an idea I got when read through these passages: You could for example invent a title, say, the "Thromgolin" after Cyroan Thromgolin. A king would be awarded the title "Thromgolin" once the work he made for the kingdom was officially approved by a certain kind of council after a bunch of years. So this could be something traditional. Some kings might get that title pretty soon for excellent leadership. However, if this approval isn't given in a certain amount of time, the king would know that his main objective should be to take care of a decent succession. He could then e.g. call for the tests to be made in order to make way ofr a new king. If the call for the tests come in time, he will also receive the honourary title "Thromgolin", as he showed foresight. Once the title "Thromgolin" is awarded, the king can choose his successor, usually of course it would be a son/daughter etc. - That's just an idea of course, which I think could make succession however somewhat interesting as it adds a nice little twist that is quite unique.)


When Cyroan Thromgolin stepped down from the throne in favour of his eldest son, Dyarettin, he had his son alter the tattoo of the Kyranian Coat of Arms that he had had embedded into his back at fourteen. A light, silvery grey circlet, that matched the crown of the Kyranian Kings, was inked in atop the stag head, cradling the gem. This tradition lasted many years, survived the War of the Chosen, and was honoured by each king until Viginold Dereswungen took the throne. At that time the crown, crafted by the Cyroan’s brother was lost as well. (Remember to adjust names here as well...)

The princes and/or princesses of the Kingdom were directly beneath the King, but they didn’t always have the authority to get things done. Until the King’s children reached adulthood, they were tutored on every aspect of ruling, even if they were not the heirs. Once they reached their adulthood they were given tasks by the King to see to or selected to work with others in areas that were their strength or weakness. The King’s offspring rarely had more power than the King’s Council, but in times of trouble they had the benefit of their status and relationship to the ruler of the kingdom.

The Kings selected their own councilors after their coronation, but more often than not, the son or daughter kept most of their father’s councilors. The King’s Council was made up of a mix of lesser and greater nobility, allowing both to have a voice in the various discussions that were brought before the council and keeping one group from overpowering the other. When the council gave sound advice (which they often did) the King would agree with them, but sometimes he would go to others that he relied on for advice before deciding.

The next in line were the greater nobility, which consisted of the Dukes and Duchesses, and Barons and Baronesses. Dukes and Duchesses were in charge of the large cities and castles spread throughout the kingdom. They were responsible for the things within their cities, collection of tax from the Barons/Baronesses that were responsible for the land around their city, execution of the King’s Justice, and more. If it happened in their city or in the areas surrounding, it was their job to see that it was taken care of. Within the capital city, there were men and women of this rank who were in charge of various areas such as relations with foreign kingdoms, ceremonies, the King’s City and more. Along with this responsibility, they were given one of the loudest voices in the General Court.

The Barons/Baronesses were responsible for a certain area of land and those that lived in their area. Most of these land-owners lived in the cities of the Duke or Duchess they served. They often had a small manor in one of the largest cities/villages on their land that they would visit once or twice a year, but for the most part their children or, in the case of a barren Baron/Baroness, a trusted lackey would see to the running of the land they owned. Within the land owned by the Barons, was land granted by the King to Lords. These Lords had tenants that answered to them, who answered to the Baron who in turn answered to the Dukes, who in turn answered to the King.

Beneath the Lords/Ladies, there were the other various ranks of people who did nothing but enjoy the King's, Duke's, Baron's, or Lord's hospitality for little reason. These were often part of the families of the various nobles, up-start peasants, merchants, and/or soldiers that were granted a title and privileges for services to the Kingdom. They usually had no land to speak of, but inhabited one of the many rooms of the spacious castles of the Kyranians.

Outside of the downward spiral of nobility were military officers. The leaders, captains, and other privileged military members served under the General of the King’s Forces who would construct a council that would approach the King in times of need. At all other times, the General of the King’s Forces, Commander of the Army, Admiral of the Navy, Commander of the Guard, Commander of the Knights (armed nobility) and Commander of the Pathfinders/Hunters would be included in meetings of the King’s Council and General Court. The rest of the Knights (who were often the nobility that chose to serve the kingdom as fighters and soldiers that rose high enough in the ranks of the military) were allowed to attend the General Court, but only the senior members were heard.

The General Court was called when needed. Some times it might be called once a week while others there might be a General Court meeting every day of a week. In this court, any person of nobility in the capital city could have a voice in the various discussions that took place. When matters of great importance were being discussed the King would be present, but when problems the monarch decided were trivial were on the list of things to be discussed, of the King’s Head Councilor and the Duke of the King’s City would be sent to record and report the things discussed during the meeting. The nobles in other cities would travel to the capital city every now and then to pay tribute to their King and take part in the discussions of the General Court. An issue of lesser importance might take a month or two before enough people of the court decided to write up a petition for the King with the signatures of all those that supported it. These petitions would end up in the King’s Council and there they would come up with results for the various things going on within the Kingdom.

So, as I said already above: I very much miss the Kyranian profile, at least some very specific things. You barely mention the regular folk here for example. If the focus is more on a simple folk, maybe there could be some instruments like protests and demonstrations that have a larger role for these people than for other kingdoms? Because these people are more down-to-earth type of guys? Well, anything that somehow connects with what they represent...

Ok, as for the Army section: I can tell you already before I read it in detail, that this kind of massive section, shouldn't be as it is in the main entry. We also have made own entries for Erpheronian Clothing e.g., because a tribe entry should focus on the important stuff and not on the hundreds of details on how a Kyranian army is constructed. I suggest to try to provide a short version that contains the key things that need to be said on the topic, and then we can link to the sub-entry for the whole thing.
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« Reply #53 on: 20 August 2008, 06:33:43 »

I'll get around to edits this weekend at the latest. Sorry for delays.
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« Reply #54 on: 22 August 2008, 16:42:09 »

I'll tackle the government section tomorrow since its 12:30am here and I'm tired. Most of the things before that have been edited in sea green in the entry, other than the religion section.

As for the Military sections, having bullets within bullets within more bullets bugs me to no end so I made one section for each. I figured that the first paragraph that introduces the sections could be used under the topic Military and it could have a link to the rest (units/ranks/uniform) at the end, and a link under the tribe link in the list. If that makes sense. If I need to make a new thread for the entire set of information and just organize it with those little paragraphs under the title Military that can easily be done, just let me know.

Hopefully the rest of my edits are making a bit of a difference. As the government section and not really mentioning the common folk. Government is another of my weak areas and I didn't really want to bring in the common folk too much and make it more of a matter for the noblility, but I'll try and add in what I can tomorrow. Right now Imma head off to my bed before I fall asleep at the computer.
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« Reply #55 on: 25 August 2008, 07:08:50 »

Alright, quick update as this is my last day of freedom before school starts again, so I figured I'd get this organized for my use and others if need be.

First Round Edits: Alright, most of the sections commented on have been completely, hopefully moving in the right direction now if not already there. These sections include: Overview, Appearance, Coat of Arms (No Change/No Comments), Territory, People, Housing, Clothing, Diet, Weapons, Occupation, Government, Production/Trade, Natural Resources, Nomenclature, and Holidays / Festivals / Observances.

Comments (But No Edits): Only have two sections left that have gotten comments, but I haven't gotten around to editing them (still kinda avoiding them grin). I'm still avoiding Religion a bit, but I'll try my hand at it next weekend I hope. Government will hopefully get some attention throughout the week, if the first week of school isn't too hectic.

Still Needin Comments: Alright, just to bring it up, as its a big entry (though only two posts now that the Military sections been moved. Yay!). There are a couple sections left that haven't gotten first round comments. No hurry on the comments, but just putting the sections out there so it can be somewhat easier to find. The only areas needing attention is the Military section and History (though not sure if that's going to be looked through or not *shrugs*) section.

Military: Alright, just saying, nearly ripped my heart out to cut that out and have a tiny section put in its place, but I'll be alright, eventually.  grin Anyways, started another thread for that and can become a subsection while the basic overviews of the different branches are under the title Military. Hopefully that's all alright.

Anyways, that's it. Thanks to those that have taken a look at this. And thanks a ton Artimidor, for having patience with this out of control entry so far. :)
« Last Edit: 27 August 2008, 14:05:40 by Garret Arroway » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: 27 August 2008, 14:08:43 »

Alright, finally stopped avoiding government and got it done. Hopefully what I did with it works well. Loved the idea Artimidor, thanks, got it in there and hopefully it works well. I added a couple bits for the commoners that might work out alright. Anyways, there it is. Had to move that section down to the second post though. Luckily I didn't have to recode it. *Got smart and learned to copy the stuff at the bottom of the post before hitting post so I don't lose the coding.*
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« Reply #57 on: 02 September 2008, 04:25:42 »

Ok, checked the Government section for now, and I think it's much better. It has a much more unique touch this way, it feels more Kyranian and not so general. That's what we need to accomplish here.

I'm a little confused, though, because the Government section is in the first post, then there's an extended version in the next post etc. Ideally the final versions should all be in the first post, otherwise it gets confusing. You don't have to add much more to the main entry however regarding Government than is in the first post, you have so much stuff that it could as well make another sub entry. Keep it short and straight in the main entry, summarize things if necessary, and everything that goes deep into the matter should be made into an own entry.

So make sure to update the first post with the fínal version.

P.S. Didn't we want to change that Dereswungen name?

Spotted a few things that need to be adjusted, see here:

Government.
Throughout the life of the Kyranian Kingdom, a typical monarchy was the favoured system of government. From the beginning of the Kingdom of Towers (11640 b.S.) until the fall of the Kyranian Kingdom (806 b.S.) the system held, though changes were made, which is to be expected in government. The most basic and regal of ranks were always present, while lesser titles (numerous one created at the King’s whim for little more than decoration) showing up every now and then. The most majestic and respected (though sometimes hated) persons were the monarchs themselves.

Monarch - While technically, the ruler could be a king or queen, the Kyranian’s only had a few known queens since only those that could prove themselves in the three tests were to be considered the heir. Most of the queens of the Kyranian Kingdom were the only children of their family and their father (the king) forced them to learn the skills needed to claim their rights as heir to the throne. These tests were mostly used among those beneath the king as a way to claim the rights of their family, though one such example of the test being used was to secure the succession.

Each king throughout the years worked towards appeasing the people, but more importantly the Council of Elders. This group of men and women from all rankings of the Kyranian society were selected by their people and the previous elder. These people would judge the monarch and their children, while observing other things such as: the way they deal with the different situations and different people throughout their kingdom. During times of war the monarch's leadership skills were watched and victories with minimal losses worked in the king's favour.

As a rule, within the first ten years of their rule, they must secure the title "Thromgolin", one given to each king when they fulfilled the tasks required of a king and showed they were worthy. The title, chosen in honour of the tribe's founder, Cyroan Thromgolin and his strong line (that ruled for many years), was a sign to the people of the kingdom that their King was ready and his/her line was strong. It allowed one of the monarch's children to ascend to the throne when their father passed on or stepped down. At this point the first area of the tests would come into play, as if there was only a female child, she would have to face the male relative, closest to the throne, in the three challenges to claim her rights.

The tests would also be necessary at the end of the first ten years of the monarch's rule if they failed to prove themselves worthy of the title "Thromgolin". The two closest to the throne through blood ties would be allowed to take the test (though a couple times throughout history three or four competed) and attempt to claim the right of heir, and would be groomed by the council to take the place of the king three years later. Foresight was one of the attributes that the Council of Elders acknowledged and if the King called for the tests before his ten years were up, knowing he would not gain the title in that time, he would be given the title after the tests, allowing him to rule until his death, or until he stepped down, at which time the winner of the tests would be crowned king.

When the ruler died in times of peace, a week of mourning would be called for. During that time, no council sessions were allowed and the King’s children had time to mourn and prepare their father's funeral. After the period of inactivity, the heir or next king would prepare for his or her coronation.

When Cyroan Thromgolin stepped down from the throne in favour of his eldest son, Dyarettin, he had his son alter the tattoo of the Kyranian Coat of Arms that he had had embedded into his back at fourteen. A light, silvery grey circlet, that matched the crown of the Kyranian Kings, was inked in atop the stag head, cradling the gem. This tradition lasted many years, survived the War of the Chosen, and was honoured by each king until Jalttren Dereswungen took the throne. At that time the crown, crafted by the Cyroan’s brother was lost as well.
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« Reply #58 on: 02 September 2008, 04:38:49 »

Well, what happened was I tried to put the edited version in the first post but it wouldn't fit and got cut off at the end of the first subsection. The second is the full thing. If that's too long I can take the first small paragraph for the entry and them put the rest in a subsection. Sorry that that got confusing, I thought I had remember to fix it, the problem with an entry that doesn't fit in one post. What ever works.

As for the name, I had changed the first name but left the last. I've been trying to come up with that list of Noble Lastnames that were banned for common use, but coming up with nothing so far, still a work in progress though.

I'll work on those edits in that first section a little later. My dads dragging me off to the store with him in a few mins.

As for the religion section. Still avoiding it somewhat, but working toward coming up with something kinda presentable. Religion and Government are definitely not my areas.

Edit: Just let me know and I'll take care of it right away. (On the subsection thing)
« Last Edit: 02 September 2008, 04:48:41 by Garret Arroway » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: 02 September 2008, 05:34:45 »

Garret, didn't Judy offer some help with the religious stuff awhile back? Also, I would like to offer my assistance, too! I've become Talia's Cosmology Assistant and could perhaps be useful to you in her absence.  :D

I would post whatever ideas/notes/thoughts you have so far and we can help expand/pick them apart into a decent religious section.

Remember, you don't necessarily need a huge religion section. You can always make a separate entry with all the fine details later like I did with the Kaaer. Just cover the basics.  thumbup
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