* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: [1] 2
Print
Author Topic: Dear Judith - Dwarven aid?  (Read 3776 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Ruil Mallister
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 118


Ruin of House Mallister


View Profile
« on: 31 May 2008, 05:01:56 »

So I finally started on the armor glossary you suggested back in December.  And as I was looking in the plate armor entry, it states that the dwarves were the first to forge and wear plate.  Due to this, I think it would only be fitting that I start there for the original terms of the various pieces of armor.  I was hoping that maybe you could cooperate with me on this..?

     1) Do you know a rough date for the first appearance of dwarven plate?  All I have is the Age of Blood.

     2) How does the Thergerim system combine two words into one?  I'm fairly certain the elves use the apostrophe to combine words like cár'scál (lit. "life blade"), and yet I could not find an explanation on the dwarven principles.

     3) Do dwarven warriors/nobles have squires or someone to help them into their armor?  Or will they be donning most of it themselves?

Thank you for your time!
~Ruil
« Last Edit: 31 May 2008, 06:04:59 by Ruil Mallister » Logged

Tharoc Wargrider
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 52
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.642


Peripatetic plunderer of crunchy comestibles


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: 31 May 2008, 06:16:53 »

Hey, Ruil. If you're having trouble getting hold of the Masterbard, it's probably 'cos she's very busy at the moment. Perhaps a PM would work better?
Logged

Use the force, Luke.

And if that doesn't work, try switching it off and back on again.
Miraran Tehuriden
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 61
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.999


Creator Of .. well, not much, recently


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #2 on: 31 May 2008, 06:24:58 »

Also, there is a Bell-Ring thread for almost every member and/or apprentice in the Nitifications board.. posting in the appropriate thread there often has good results.
Logged

Avrah Kehabhra

"The whole POINT of Nybelmar is that no one has any idea whats going on, overly long entries keep it that way." - Decipher Ziron
Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.650


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #3 on: 31 May 2008, 08:24:05 »

 Hullo!   Yes, end of term means I'm busy - in teacher mode, that is, not student mode.  Students only have to worry about writing six to eight exams - I have to mark two hundred and fifty.  Spare some sympathy, eh?  However, atm I'm not dealing with that particular frustration, so I'll try to get some comments in before I vanish for the upcoming exam week...


   1) Do you know a rough date for the first appearance of dwarven plate?  All I have is the Age of Blood.

No, sorry - I didn't write the plate armour entry and people don't ALWAYS (thanks btw!) check with me when they use the word 'dwarf' or put in references.  If you can postulate something I'll be happy to examine it and check it for 'fit'... :)

     2) How does the Thergerim system combine two words into one?  I'm fairly certain the elves use the apostrophe to combine words like cár'scál (lit. "life blade"), and yet I could not find an explanation on the dwarven principles.

We just slam them together and make them fit!   Usually the Thergerim retain the capitalization for newer words but it begins to vanish over the centuries for older compounds.  It is perfectly acceptable to provide a 'new' independent word, depending on the meaning - much of vocabulary is not agglutinative.   We do have certain syllables that are suffixes/prefixes which recur and convey meaning (similar to 'de', 'con', 'ex', 'ion').    Your best bet - ask me for the words you need and I'll 'look them up' in my master list (that is, create them from the principles I invented in the first place :) )

     3) Do dwarven warriors/nobles have squires or someone to help them into their armor?  Or will they be donning most of it themselves?

Dwarven society is quite communal and egalitarian for the most part: there are no 'nobles'.  And since they have extended lifespans compared to the human, their various life processes are also extended (maturity happens somewhere between sixty and a hundred years of age.....) so apprenticeships tend to be long and meticulous - they choose their jobs early on and begin learning in a low-stress environment, with more responsibilities over the years.     However, that doesn't answer your question.

 Dwarves are rarely in a hurry, and they can lift a full chest protector singlehanded - so they do not need, like medieval knights, to have everything put on them.  Straps and buckles are generally contrived to be handy to reach, but if they require assistance, well...  In a warfare situation, there are always plenty of your comrades around.  You help your battlemate get his breastplate fastened, and he'll do the same for you.  Where human self-interest might lead to selfishness (in dwarven eyes), it wouldn't occur to a dwarf to not take the time to assist his friends, even if an orcen war-ram is breaking through the door.

Hope those few comments help, Ruil!
Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 19
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.798



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: 31 May 2008, 11:38:06 »

If I can be of assistance in any way, I will. The leather, chain, and plate armor entries were some of my first entries. And I tend to check topics I'm involved with frequently, so I'll be back around here if you need help.
Good luck!
Logged

Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
Ruil Mallister
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 118


Ruin of House Mallister


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: 31 May 2008, 15:06:04 »

Well I purposely just opened a thread so Mrs. Judith could speak with me whenever she had the time.  It's nothing very urgent - I could always work on other details of the work in the meantime.  If this was the wrong place to do so, then I apologize.

And thank you, Judith!  I'll try not to bog you down too much.  I think what I'll do is come up with what the dwarven term might translate into (like "iron skin") and ask your opinion or help on terms from there.  I hope that works for you and your busy schedule. ^^;;;; I don't wanna take up too much of your time, especially if it's limited as it is (I wasn't aware you were doing finals).

And if there's anyway you can help, Nsikigan, I'll let you know!  Thank you for the offer.

EDIT: In order to avoid double-posting, I'll just edit this post with what I've got so far.  I've tried to keep the new words in the same logical origins as the existing terms.  I hope this is satisfactory.

(Existing words)
Breastplate/cuirass  -  "aroonmith"
Gauntlet  -  "golzmith"
Greave  -  "mermith"

(New words)
Helm  -  "hthomith" (head metal)
Gorget  -  "homith" (neck metal)
Spaulders  -  "puvmith" (cauldron metal)
Fauld  -  "rusmith" (belly metal)
Sabaton  -  "tenmith" (foot metal)

It seemed to me that the armor terms already in the dictionary were all very simple: just the body part and mith (metal).  But I couldn't find any words for "arm" or "limb" or anything like that.  So I couldn't come up with any words for the couter and poleyn (the elbow and knee protection), or the braces.  I also kind of winged it with the spaulders, as I can see the first dwarven plate using bowl-type spaulders (hence using cauldron as the base word).  I'm not sure if that will work just because it is different from the obvious theme of the rest, but oh well.

Also, I figured I'd also do a little thinking on what the dwarves call armor in general.  Since the dictionary has armor down as "tenemith", I figured that'd be a good word for all types of metal protection, be it mail, scale , lamellar or plate.  But for plate specifically, I thought it would be interesting etymology if the dwarves created the breastplate (aroonmith) as the first plate, but as the armor evolved to protect more and more of the body, the term aroonmith came to be used to refer to both the cuirass and to plate armor in general.  I also figured that since a full suit of plate would be a relatively big feat, it deserved a new word.  As such, I thought the words "JiikehTenemith" (full armor) or "JiikehMith" (full metal) would both be acceptable.

I also thought it would be neat if humans referred to dwarven plate as "tenemith armor" or "tenemith plate", to distinguish its construction from the humans' own styles of plate.

Is all this okay with you, Miss Masterbard?
« Last Edit: 31 May 2008, 16:15:07 by Ruil Mallister » Logged

Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.650


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #6 on: 31 May 2008, 17:00:56 »

Dwarfishly logical!    I'd back-evolve some terms, though, as the language does tend to elide after a while... and it was silly of me not to find a term for armour itself, seeing as it plays an important role in dwarven culture.   They have a great deal of terms for rock, jewels, and particular metals, so there should definitely be a word for wrought metal shaped to protect the body... :)  Let's see - how about a syllable which added to 'mith' always means armour?  'ir', perhaps?   That could give us the following:


Helm - Miththomir (syllables reversed for a solider sound)
Gorget - Homthir   (elided)
Spaulders - Puvmitir (elided to drop the 'th')  Nice baseword there!
Fauld - Rusmitir  (likewise)
Sabaton - Tenithir (the 'm' slid into the 'n' after centuries - also helps to distinguish it from the word for dwarven plate)

Plate armour - Aroonmithir sounds fine to me!
Full armour - Jiketenemith (the suit, and thus the word, should have been around long enough to lose the double letters and the capitalization)  or "Jikehmithir" (following our new rule about adding 'ir' for armour usages.


The human word for dwarven-made plate as 'Tenemith Armour' or simply 'Tenemithir' - excellent.  They would probably also call it 'Thergerim Plate' or 'Thergerplate'.   Humans often say 'A Thergerim-forged XX' (where XX is the specific human name for a piece of plate mail) or 'A dwarven-made XX' - which distinguishes between a piece made FOR a dwarf and BY a dwarf. 

 A "dwarven helm", of course, will not fit a human head effectively or comfortably, while a custom piece of Thergerplate made to your exact specifications ('dwarven-made helm') is a very different story...   

:)


Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Ruil Mallister
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 118


Ruin of House Mallister


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: 01 June 2008, 01:54:41 »

Oh, I love it! heart I'll write all of this down and keep it in mind as I continue to put together this entry.  I was thinking of calling the entry "Anatomy of Armor", but due to the various races/tribes usage and types of armor, I'm not entirely sure how I will break this entry down.  If you have any suggestions, they'd be most appreciative.

Thank you for your help, Judith! hug
Logged

Tharoc Wargrider
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 52
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.642


Peripatetic plunderer of crunchy comestibles


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: 01 June 2008, 04:10:31 »

Hey, Ruil. What you are doing sounds very much like my entry on "Tattooing and Body-modification" in the Misc. forum.

Take a quick look at how I've set it out and see what you think. I think it would work well for your Armour entry as well.

And as I've recently been given charge of all things Orcish, I'll be "pecking your head" quite a lot soon, as I try to develop my ideas for basic armour made from natural sources, so be warned!

And welcome to the Dream!
Logged

Use the force, Luke.

And if that doesn't work, try switching it off and back on again.
Ruil Mallister
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 118


Ruin of House Mallister


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: 01 June 2008, 04:18:38 »

I look forward to working with you, sir.  Just keep in mind that I will also be pecking your head to keep your armors from being impractical ^^;;  There is nothing worse than wearing a suit of armor that won't protect you in battle.

But perhaps this thread should be moved to the Discussions forum?  I just realized that's probably a better home than here...
Logged

Tharoc Wargrider
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 52
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.642


Peripatetic plunderer of crunchy comestibles


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: 01 June 2008, 04:26:11 »

If we need to talk more in depth at some stage, then we can either PM or, as you suggest, go to the Discussion forum, but just as a quick "hello" type thing, I don't think anyone minds if you use a reply.

My armour will all be made from things like hides, perhaps wood?, Ironwood leaves (see my entry in the Herbarium), perhaps woven straw?  All pretty basic, don't forget Orcs aren't the most sophisticated of tribes!
Logged

Use the force, Luke.

And if that doesn't work, try switching it off and back on again.
Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 19
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.798



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: 02 June 2008, 00:36:56 »

I'm thinking of adding or expanding some armor entries... I've really had bone armor gnawing on my mind for a while... popular amongst certain elves, orcs, mullogs, and Eyelians, perhaps?
Logged

Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
Tharoc Wargrider
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 52
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.642


Peripatetic plunderer of crunchy comestibles


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: 02 June 2008, 00:46:09 »

OOhhh, bone armour! Why didn't I think of that?
Logged

Use the force, Luke.

And if that doesn't work, try switching it off and back on again.
Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
Aspiring Member
**

Gained Aura: 19
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.798



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: 02 June 2008, 01:05:08 »

Well, one can hardly expect an orc to come up with ingenious ideas....  evil
Logged

Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
Tharoc Wargrider
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 52
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1.642


Peripatetic plunderer of crunchy comestibles


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: 02 June 2008, 01:27:35 »

Well, I've never been so insulted........oh, hang on, yes I have.
Logged

Use the force, Luke.

And if that doesn't work, try switching it off and back on again.
Pages: [1] 2
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[27 March 2019, 00:01:57]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1019
Latest: lolanixon
Stats
Total Posts: 144586
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 22
Online Ever: 700
(23 January 2020, 20:05:39)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 25
Total: 25

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx