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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #15 on: 18 June 2008, 01:42:48 »

Hmmm... to me its not really clear where the light ios coming from with the shadow added version. We have a shadow now in front and on the back, so this is contradictory, as the light only shines on an object from one direction usually. The way it is now it also looks as if the Wlop or Wolp is in front of a wall, because the shadow drops there.

Did you do the shadow manually? Photoshop has a shadow option, which you can tweak in all kind of different ways so that you get a very realistic one-directional shadow that fades out gradually at any strength you like. I could try applying such a shadow for demonstration, but I'd need the animal seperately for that.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #16 on: 18 June 2008, 01:48:46 »

No, I didn't do it manually, it is called effects and shadow outside or something like this. There are two shadows, that right, for I wanted to have something in the front and in the back to get some distance from the parchment.

Art, it is not meant to look realistic with a realistic shadow. It is a picture painted on a parchement after the description of somebody else, the painter (in this case Talia) did not see the beast himself. Drer has just one shadow, but it is not really meant as a true shadow either, more as some foreground, could be grass as well. Maybe I should try another direction.
But I can of course post both layers extra, saved as PSD for you ;)

Later this evening - dinner is (not) waiting now..
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #17 on: 18 June 2008, 01:53:00 »

Actually, I liked the first version better.  If you applied a desaturation filter to take away a bit of the colouration, it would make a very convincing 'picture of an illustration', of which I approve, in the low-key Durer style.

(seizing the opportunity to put in a little publicity for my pov)  I know we have a certain 'style' consistency on the site, but really I'd like to see more sepia and black and white sketches approved - better than no pictures at all for entries, don't you think?

Talia - If you don't mind waiting till things settle down (next week) I'd love to give this a Judicization/smoothing out.  It's worth a very careful go-over, but I haven't got the time until exams end.  Let me know!
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"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #18 on: 18 June 2008, 06:26:12 »

 :) Judy, I will patiently waiting for you do go over it, I wanted to change something with the nameconstruction anyway, I nearly forgot.

I have done some more experiments with the picture:

Here we have the sepia one

And here a toned down without shadow, though I must say, I like the brighter colours, but with some shadow as Art suggested (not too much though), it is here .


Artimidor, I have on the stuff server two big psd, path talia/Tiere/Wolp/..   You can take them from there to try out the photoshoptool, but they are huge.. (I skaled them down already!)
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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« Reply #19 on: 18 June 2008, 13:01:30 »

I know this is... 59 posts late but....

CONGRATULATIONS, TALIA!

Okay, carry on.
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #20 on: 19 June 2008, 02:23:44 »

I've tried to show a bit what I mean with this version (inner shadows, outer shadows, smoothing edges etc.) to give parts of the beast a more realistic touch, so that you don't see the drawing as such too much. The picture was difficult to use, though, because it was all on one layer unfortunately, and the edges were problematic as well.

(click on image to enlarge)



Anyway, this is a rough version, and I wouldn't want to put more time in it if there's no approval on the direction it takes. To me personally a coloured version doesn't really work well on a background like this, it would require a 3d look as well (grass below, sky above etc.) We might have skies and grass and stuff to put something together, but that's not my call.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #21 on: 19 June 2008, 21:41:51 »

Art, you only wanted to have the background as an own layer, I could have uploaded all layers of course. This way I didn't add inner shadows as you tried them to do.

Well, frankly, though a rough approach only, I don't like your version. Now it seems as if it is hovering in the air, the back is somewhat strange and the tail double. And the shadows are too dark.

You didn't say anything to my arguing that "the painter" did not want to have it look too realistic - like a photograph -  it should be a painting on a parchment, as I said already twice. Nobody has ever seen such an animal, so why strive for realism? You didn't say yet anything to the "Drer"-like impression I wanted to create - if you like this approach or not.

I'LL try to add some shadow under the wings, though I think for a "painting" it is fine as it is.
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #22 on: 19 June 2008, 22:28:54 »

I have to say of all the concepts I prefer the slightly desaturated, low-shadow version the best; to me that suggests the 'painting on parchment' the most effectively.   

If we could 'tear' the edges as we've done with other 'parchment' illustrations, that would really help to suggest the flat quality as well.

I love the entry, and of course the illustration adds to its charm - so it's just a matter of sorting out which version works best.



Art, didn't I ask you as well a while back  if we could have a variety of art styles for different purposes on the site?  The painterly fantasy quality which our professionals excel at and which I'm trying to achieve in most of my digital art (thanks for your patience, everyone, and your comments which help me improve!)  is definitely your preferred look, and it enriches the site immeasurably.   But things like the 'doodles', 'dissection drawings', 'herb sketches' and 'watercolours' would also add realism and allow some different artists to contribute more often - an entry with a picture is always more attractive, isn't it? 

 Perhaps if you want to keep a consistent look you could prepare some standard size/colour/deckle-edged parchment backgrounds and have them available for people to 'sketch' on using sepia 'ink' - that way the illustrations would have a similar feel and authentic appearance.  It might just open things up a bit and encourage more art, because quality colour illustrations take a long time.   

Just an idea - two or three sans' worth..

Judy
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #23 on: 19 June 2008, 22:43:29 »

I agree with Miss Bard about the pictures. I think some variety works better, but also having some consistency with each piece. Not everyone can produce Quellion-like art and some entries only need a simpler, basic illustration without the need to commission a "Todd Lockwood" looking piece.

I really enjoy the Bard's illustrations, actually, as they remind me of a simpler, medieval style that doesn't have the appearance of a digital creation but something that actually looks like it was painted with real brushes and ink.

Personally, I'd love a Bard picture of my T'lark war shield if she is willing someday... cool
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #24 on: 19 June 2008, 22:46:02 »

Oh, I'm not opposed to that, as long as it is not standard black/white, which are things we try to overcome. That's why we try to make parchments out of various drawings that are not done by our digital painting masters. It should just be ensured that there's a certain quality and consistency within the picture itself - if it's there, it's ok with me.

A full colour version here as it was started is somewhat problematic to me if not realized on a proper parchment less colourful or made more realistic in style. My attempt was to go for the latter and it was of course mainly done to show the direction (that it hovers is obvious, because it cannot work with that background if not finalized etc.). A slightly desaturated, low-shadow version might work better however, if care is taken that it fits together with a parchment. Difficult enough, I'd say.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #25 on: 19 June 2008, 23:06:17 »

I think I don't understand you, do you want the parchment less coloured if we would take  the first version? I thought it was too light, for a normal parchment is much heavier in colour, if not bleached.

I can of course saturate it a bit down, but are our colours so bad, that they don't have a bright appearance? Judy thinks it would look nicer, if a bit saturated down, but from an artistic point of view, not because such an image would not be possible.

I try to add some shadows and saturate it down, but I don't think it will alter this picture so much as to bring it to our standards, if it is not already standard. Now I have the impression, that  it is in its initial post not yet standard, and then I only can give up to do pictures for Santharia, for I can't draw better. And I don't have the time to spend another two hours on it.
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #26 on: 19 June 2008, 23:14:43 »

If we see it as a sketch on a parchment, we should do it as such, and make it less colourful, make it fit to the parchment. As you see on the Drer pic shadows are at a minimum at this version, it is meant as a sketch. We need only such minimal shadows (at the bottom of the parchment) if we go in this direction, maybe some shadows below the wings. And tone done the colour a bit perhaps. But we then don't need major reworks.
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #27 on: 20 June 2008, 01:33:54 »

So then THIS version (http://www.stuff.santharia.com/talia/Tiere/Wolp/Wolp_Farbeint.jpg) should be ok, shouldn't it?  Just perhaps adding some 'minimal shadows' under it which are a bit 'sketchy'.

(Talia, I've put up four different versions of the Scarlet Priestess tonight alone!  Sometimes our art critics here just have a particular picture in their minds's eye which the painter doesn't see.  I'm going to go to bed and forget about it for tonight - we can both have a fresh start at it in the morning.... :)  )
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #28 on: 21 June 2008, 05:56:48 »

A last desperate effort... grin

here
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #29 on: 21 June 2008, 06:43:41 »

I like this last one you did, Talia, it looks more "grounded" (pun intended!)

The others just seemed kind of awkward, sort of floating in mid-air--this actually looks more like a little 3-dimensional beastie.  It just gives the picture more weight as an illustration.   thumbup


Alysse
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