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Author Topic: Nybelmarian Empires ~ Murmillions Included?  (Read 4996 times)
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Eléyr Fásamár
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« on: 01 July 2008, 02:52:55 »

Prepare for a moderately cynical rant, that in no way reflects my true personality, but the 'style' just seemed right for the content of the arguement...

In the 'Nybelmar, Continent' entry, there is a map that is colored to represent various nations and empires of Nybelmar and a list of the empires, summarizing them. (A link to the map is here with the entry here)

As you can see, the Ehebion Peninsula (the territory of the Murmillions in mordern day, according to their entry) is shaded a light brown, suggesting that someone (oh, I wonder who it could be... ;)) inhabits and rules over the place, with their own government, etc., etc., etc....

Now please scroll down the Nybelmar entry and attempt to locate where it says 'The Shadow Realm of Ehebion' or 'The Murmillion Empire'. Can't find it, aye? Well, that is the main point of this question/rant.

I am aware that the Murmillions are mention as a people later on, in another section, but they are not simply a group based on their lineage under the reign of another. They do have their own, modern-day king. Or so I think/thought.

Basically, several sources state quite clearly that the Murmillions haven't been conquered yet, but at the same time, they are neglected that privilege in other areas (list of Nybelmar empires ;)).

I simply wish to clarify that they still exist as their own seperate empire, and would query why they did not find a place in the empire list if that is the case, although I am assuming it was an oversight. Anyways, if they *do* still exist, but simply aren't mentioned in the entry, then I would be happy to write up a quick paragraph summary for them to be added in the entry, so that their existance is noted, just for continuity throughtout the sight. (And a tenacious desire for my 'favorite' tribe to not be wiped out. :))

~ends rant~

So I'd just like to conclude with a plea to end the plight of homelessness for the Murmillion people, and ensure that their Shadow Realm hasn't yet been destroyed, the borders have merely receded due to some fighting with the Santerrans.
« Last Edit: 01 July 2008, 02:59:53 by Eléyr Fásamár » Logged

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Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #1 on: 01 July 2008, 04:06:08 »

Your jabberings confuse me....

The map stands currently as a rough sketch- at least the parts of it that aren't defined....

Your rant is pointless in this sense- Since you are none the wiser than any of us

The Nybelmar Elders may have some light to shed on this though, in which case you should of approached Smith directly.....
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« Reply #2 on: 01 July 2008, 04:10:48 »

Apologies....I thought we were talking about a different map....but you still should directly ask the map creator or Smith (assuming they arent the same person)
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Eléyr Fásamár
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« Reply #3 on: 01 July 2008, 05:23:23 »

Umm... I thought the question (stated quite clearly in the second to last paragraph) would have been simple enough for anyone with relative knowledge about Nybelmar to answer, and that would be why it was in the 'Nybelmar' forum. It is a question directly relating to the modern day status of the continent, and a proposal to simply add a paragraph to the entry on that particular continent to fill the gap in order to ensure continuity in the compendium. I apologize if I was some how mistaken in the purpose of this Continent Board, as I assumed it was a general place for any with interest in the western continent to discuss things such as this.

Quote
I simply wish to clarify that they [The Murmillions] still exist as their own seperate empire

Quote
Anyways, if they *do* still exist, but simply aren't mentioned in the entry, then I would be happy to write up a quick paragraph summary for them to be added in the entry, so that their existance is noted, just for continuity throughtout the sight. (And a tenacious desire for my 'favorite' tribe to not be wiped out. :))

To me, the knowledge of whether a nation exists or not in the present day seems like relatively common knowledge, especially amongst those who have a particular interest in the area the people inhabit. I simply wanted to clarify this, and then make a minute addition to an entry for continuity throughout the site. Excuse me for making a query to those who I considered to be 'the wiser' to me, and I apologize if I was incorrect in that assumption.

Cordially (and with some regret for being *so* egregious in my choice of board),
Eléyr Fásamár
« Last Edit: 01 July 2008, 05:25:15 by Eléyr Fásamár » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: 01 July 2008, 10:38:15 »

It's a fair question, Eleyr.   Such gaps should definitely be filled with at least basic information, or at the least allowed to be pointed out....

Perhaps your rant was taken too seriously, despite your disclaimer?  I can't guess why you wouldn't receive an answer, either a guess or something invented on the spot to help solve the problem, instead of a curt rejection.   

Do, however, bear in mind that our main focus in developing is the Sarvonian continent, and Nybelmar has only a few 'experts' to its name atm.  They bear other responsibilities and don't have everything about the continent nailed down as it is still very much under development - as you note.   

Did you need to know for any particular reason, or was it a general inquiry?  In either case, you are in the correct forum, and hopefully some of the other Nybexperts will have an opinion on this sooner or later.

Regards from the bard,
Judith
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Eléyr Fásamár
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« Reply #5 on: 01 July 2008, 11:45:52 »

I've begun to finally start writing about the people after receiving Smith's permission long ago, and amidst my studying I simply noticed that they were not on a list of modern day empires, but were on the map and nothing explicitly stated that they had died out. So I fretted, and brewed over it, considered dropping the people, but decided to finish up the Cult of Fire entry, but now I simply wish to confirm this, as I do wish to continue writing about my favorite tribe, and have several entries scheduled that I could write to fill in gaps for the people.

I'm pretty much *positive* that the people haven't been wiped out, as there is only one contradictory entry compared to many, but I thought I should at least propose throwing a paragraph in to remove the gap. Not as if I was intending to doubt the Nybexperts or insult them for not including, but help them with continuity rather, especially since I was rather perturbed about the partial absence of my favorite tribe.

So, no offense meant to the wonderful people who work with Nybelmar, I simply wished to confirm and explicitly mention the existence of a tribe who may well be my long-term niche.
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #6 on: 01 July 2008, 12:39:05 »

My unsolicited advice...will probably get you in trouble, but...

Since Smith gave you permission to essentially take control of the tribe, I'd say the tribe's destiny is yours to control going forward. If you say the tribe hasn't been wiped out and you can easily make a correction to a previously vague entry, then do it. Simply develop the tribe as you envision and edit any old and inaccurate entries to reflect your vision. No one is competing with you for Murmillion development and I don't think Smith or anyone else is going to throw a fit over a simple detail and deny you the right to develop what you want.

I did it for the Kaaer...and look how they turned out.  ;)
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« Reply #7 on: 01 July 2008, 13:46:00 »

Let's recap here:

Ok, so you DO have permission to develop a tribe - not usually given unless a senior developer feels confident you can do it.   You got that from a Nybelmarnian (albeit one MIA at the moment).  You yourself are interested in working with these people, in integrating them into existing history and culture, and developing them further in a fully 'Santharian' type of way.  You have further entries around them scheduled, or at least on hold in your brain.  Obviously you can write competently and interestingly, and in various styles - bravo!

There is currently no application form to work in an area; we simply encourage people to find their niche as soon as possible and build it and their skills simultaneously.  If Nyb is your niche, well, Manthria will be the loser, but we want you to be happy!

My opinion - equally unsolicited but less likely to get you into trouble - (winks at Az) is that you are just the type of developer Nybelmar is lucky to have.   

Proceed, and if you do create more contradictions than you solve, I'm sure we'll be ready to jump in with assistance and suggestions!  :P

Judith
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« Reply #8 on: 01 July 2008, 15:42:15 »

I wasn't aware, that Smith allowed you (long ago) to overhaul the whole tribe, I thought it was just the permission to do the religious stuff or to do some additions, for, as Judy pointed out - tribes , even expanding on them required membership. Azhira was the first exception from that rule - I thought.

Maybe you could write Smith to post his approval openly (I assume, he gave you the permission via PM). Not that I don't trust you, that's more a measure of precaution to prevent future misunderstandings.
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« Reply #9 on: 01 July 2008, 23:11:00 »

As Judy says- There are few experts....

Me, Mira, Coren etc. etc. mainly work on the West Continent

Smith is one of the sparse few that work on the East....

Obviously we know bits and pieces about each other's sides (Perhaps Smith and Coren may have a concise knowledge of the whole continent) but as previously mentioned- we dont know everything, and in most cases things are undeveloped (In comparison to Mantharia lets say).

As such, approach Smith

If what you say- about you being the new Main Developer of the Murmillions- is true, you do have the authority to do what Azhira said- to some extent- though you cannot simply disregard everything else which has been done before you.

Personally, In areas I am dubious about I look on-site or approach a reputable developer of said area- but it seems as though no answers can be found for you.

This looks like a job for Mr In Exile......

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« Reply #10 on: 01 July 2008, 23:22:28 »

Okay, so. Originally, I wrote Smith a PM asking if I could further develop the Murmillion cults, as the Murmillions were my favorite tribe in the compendium, and I'd love to write entries for their area, etc., etc. Now, I do not still have Smith's answer in my inbox, but he said something to the effect that he wasn't exactly around to write entries anymore, and that if someone wanted to continue fleshing out the Murmillions that would be great. Again, not a direct quote, but something to that effect.

The actual 'tribe overhaul' I didn't actually intend to write for a while, as it seems accurate for the most part. But I am adding several Cult, Flora, and Fauna entries to the people, and am essentially devving the Ehebion Peninsula and what further is needed with the Murmillions, though actually revising the 'tribe' entry I didn't actually intend to do, mostly because I'm not sure it's needed, with the already immense amount of info gathered there, although after further developing the area around them, at some point in the far future, it might be possible that I do that, but I don't intend to at this point.

The reason I pose this question, is to ensure that I'm not disregarding everything that has been done before me. ;)

But, regardless, I have already bell-rung Smith to check an entry on the Murmillion cults that I recently finished, and when he answers that we can get his 'written permission'. Sound good?
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« Reply #11 on: 01 July 2008, 23:36:46 »

Oh, it is fine, this working around a tribe's entry. If it is fairly complete anyway (I admit, it is quite some time I read it). And it is good you concentrate on one area (more or less), then really good in depth entries can evolve! :)
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« Reply #12 on: 06 July 2008, 22:15:17 »

Hello! I got back last night and just spotted this thread. I shall read the discussion here and try to respond as quickly as possible :)
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« Reply #13 on: 06 July 2008, 22:44:38 »

Yay, the Coren hath returned!   (ample hugs and wide smiles)    Come try to catch up on everything, but don't strain your eyes....

Good to see you back.... (gives him one last hug)
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« Reply #14 on: 06 July 2008, 23:20:18 »

Thanks, Coren. Whenever I get on this subject I have a tendency to talk, on and on, so just in case you can't understand some of my ramblings, I'll restate the question below, plain and simple.

Do the Murmillions exist as their own seperate empire? (I have found evidence stating that some of them still remain independent and others that say the Santerrans have completely taken over them.)
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