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[Rookie Brownbark]

@ Dru

Again, that's why this thread is here. I hope, and I believe Nsiki will agree with me, that the general and basic, jumpstart planning that he did last night was not meant to be an end to all discussion. No one has said that the rest of the team can't imput things, and if this project needs to slow down it can. I just feel that we can't be frustrated with Nsiki for jumpstarting a project with some outlining that would have to be done eventually anyway.

You’re right, I shouldn’t be annoyed at starting off this discussion, and I’m not really, I just got the impression that this was completely 100% steaming ahead from the fact that it was posted in the Masterplan forum and seemed to be fairly far along whilst still in the first stages of discussion.   My mistake.

Sounds good, but some organization on that front, even if in the end we don't call it a masterplan, can't hurt can it? Atleast just defining what entries are major, what needs to be done, etc.

Again, I agree, I just feel the idea of a Masterplan is a lot to take on and shouldn’t be done lightly.  It would be a good idea to have a list of all the entries which need to be revised/written for reference.  I would be happy to provide plant/animal lists for the region as a developer’s tool.  But if the intention was to great a group of people who could work through each and every missing entry, I don’t think I’d be on board.  I think that’s a huge amount to take on, and a lot of pressure to have so many entries hanging over you.  However, if the list was there, I would be happy to take entries off there when I had time and wanted a break from Brownies.  But then maybe it’s only me who would feel this difference?

Because you are of course very involved in the region with the brownies Rookie, I think it is more than reasonable to postpone anything of the kind without you atleast being able to participate. I think it is impossible to say that discussion over this, and possibly some basic map/climate/trade route stuff will not be atleast talked through over the next few days, but it would be foolishness on the part of anyone to attempt to finalize such things without you. We neeeeeeed you Rookie! *Insert very echoey voice here*

Lol!   Indeed, I don’t expect you to stop discussions completely for me, just be aware that I might be late in and therefore bring up things once more which you thought had been discussed and agreed.  I would like to be involved in general Sanguia stuff if I could, and not only be confined to the Vale.

May I just point out though, for those who haven't seen, that Arti knows and has not forbid such a project.

True, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be discussed and thought out.  Which I guess you’ve convinced me is going to happen, so..yeah…:)

@Nsiki

There you go, Tal, you answered your own question, and it seems I have a MASSIVE misconception to clear up here. Nothing has been truly launched. The foundations have been built, and this masterplan is only a convienent name. I am not demanding a team, I am not demanding attention, I am simply setting up guidelines for a very important region.
Talia, the time will go into this, but it will happen when I have the time, and last night I was a bit busy getting the foundations set. But the details will happen.

Well, traditionally the idea of a Masterplan is that the whole team (or as many as possible) are being asked to work on it, isn’t it?  That is in fact the whole point, no? 
Okay, the rest doesn’t really need to be under quotes, and I think I’ve answered some of it in my replies to Dru.  I would probably one day do an entry for the Vale, but very very far in the future, as it’s a large entry and I would like to take a break from them post masterwork.  So I wouldn’t really like to reserve it, just encase another enthusiastic person comes along and wants to write it before I get there.

What exactly are the plans?  To make lists of things which need to be done, to do them all, to create development resources, to build up a “Sanguian” team who can support each other’s works and provide some expert help to each other?

[Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth]

You’re right, I shouldn’t be annoyed at starting off this discussion, and I’m not really, I just got the impression that this was completely 100% steaming ahead from the fact that it was posted in the Masterplan forum and seemed to be fairly far along whilst still in the first stages of discussion.   My mistake.

Sorry, Brownie!
Actually, this was originally in the... development proposals board, I think, but Mina requested/suggested i move it, so it's been moved here.

Again, I agree, I just feel the idea of a Masterplan is a lot to take on and shouldn’t be done lightly.

Please don't get the impression I'm taking this on lightly! Trust me, I am 100% serious about this project.

It would be a good idea to have a list of all the entries which need to be revised/written for reference.  I would be happy to provide plant/animal lists for the region as a developer’s tool.  But if the intention was to great a group of people who could work through each and every missing entry, I don’t think I’d be on board.  I think that’s a huge amount to take on, and a lot of pressure to have so many entries hanging over you.  However, if the list was there, I would be happy to take entries off there when I had time and wanted a break from Brownies.  But then maybe it’s only me who would feel this difference?

If you want to help get the lists of entries together, that'd be fantastic!
No, the intention is NOT to work through "each and every missing entry". That'd be impossible, as there is literally an infinite number of potential entries! I just want to look at the entries on the site that need revision, and revise them. I also want to develop places, especially to a greater extent, as place entries have a tremendous effect on spawning/integrating other entries, not to mention there are quite a few places on the map that don't have entries, as evidenced by my place list.
And essentially, yes, Brownie. What we (I?) want to do is create lists of entries that NEED revision/integration, and work on those.

I would like to be involved in general Sanguia stuff if I could, and not only be confined to the Vale.

I feel you, Browine! I want to be involved in Sanguia generally, not just with the Eyelians.

True, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be discussed and thought out.

For the moment, that's all we're doing.

Well, traditionally the idea of a Masterplan is that the whole team (or as many as possible) are being asked to work on it, isn’t it?  That is in fact the whole point, no?

To an extent, but my yes/no answer would be no. Take Mantharia, for instance. While we have a team of incredibly talented and dedicated developers, not EVERY talented/dedicated developer is working in Mantharia.

I wouldn’t really like to reserve it, just encase another enthusiastic person comes along and wants to write it before I get there.

It shall remain unreserved.

What exactly are the plans?  To make lists of things which need to be done, to do them all, to create development resources, to build up a “Sanguian” team who can support each other’s works and provide some expert help to each other?

Essentially, yes. Excellently put, Brownie. I won't argue that it's a huge undertaking. It is. But it's an undertaking that has been happening ever since the first Sanguian entry was written. All I'm doing is adding more  initiative and organization.

[Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth]

Before we go full steam ahead, let's figure out what needs to get done. Eg, our Top Priorities.

[Mannix]

Nsiki, just so you know, I do have plans for the hobbits of the Elenveran shire.  I would be more than happy to help you develop with this plan, but sadly I do not have the time, plus I’m not a member.  I would be most upset if my ideas for the hobbits were not listened to.  I see you have them as needing development, so I would just like to state my interest in that development. Also I see you say the Gnorians need developing, this confuses me.  First of all, the Gnorians hardly live in Sanguia, they mostly live in Enthronia.  Second, they aren't in that dire need of development.  I'm sure Gaffin and I both have ideas for them, so perhaps we should be consulted if work is to be done on them.  I woud say that the Gnorians have very little influence in the province anyway.  There is a much higher concentration of them in the eastern province.  The few sparse gnomes would have little influence, as first they are gnomes and second they are Gnorian gnomes.  Basically all I'm saying is perhaps this plan should hold off for a while.  Entries in the region would be thoroughly apprieciated, and they would help me develop, but I don't think everyone who wants to develop the places is ready.  I see entries that I know Judy would be intrested in, others Gaffin would, others I would, others for Rookie, others for Grun, and I'm sure Arti would like to develop some, when he had the time.  I think he is just being gracious by not complaining.  Go ahead with entries there, but a masterplan seems a bit extreme.  Planning the masterplan would be okay as well, but I wouldn't start until everyone who wants to develop has the chance.  Actually, may I ask your goals for this plan, as I don't see any.  As I see it, this started out to develop New-Santhala, but Arti says a masterplan is not just to develop one place.  I understand you wantthe province your peopleare in to be developed, but I don'tthink we have the time.  As I said, it would be great for you to plan the plan.  Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh by the way, I just don't want everyones' plans to go to waste.

Mannix

[Mina]

A masterplan isn't developed in isolation (unless it's for somewhere that is really completely unclaimed).  Besides, I'm quite sure there's nothing preventing changes from being made to it even after it is done. 

I think, since there are so many people interested in various parts of the province as you point out, a masterplan could be a good way to organise things.  It should be helpful for figuring out how the various groups in the province interact with each other, as well as point out any gaps that might need to be filled.  We just need to know who's working on/planning to work on what. 

[Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth]

Exactly, and that's what I'm trying to do with this thread.
Now, on to Mannix.

Nsiki, just so you know, I do have plans for the hobbits of the Elenveran shire.  I would be more than happy to help you develop with this plan, but sadly I do not have the time, plus I’m not a member.  I would be most upset if my ideas for the hobbits were not listened to.

See, what I've found out about Santharia is it doesn't matter if you're a member or not. You have just as much say in your own project as Talia, for instance. If you have ideas, no ones going to strike you down. And I'd love to hear your concepts for the hobbits.

Also I see you say the Gnorians need developing, this confuses me.  First of all, the Gnorians hardly live in Sanguia, they mostly live in Enthronia.  Second, they aren't in that dire need of development.  I'm sure Gaffin and I both have ideas for them, so perhaps we should be consulted if work is to be done on them.

No, I didn't mean to say they NEED developing. Rather, they are one of the tribes/races with a presence in Sanguia. If you think they are/should be/mostly exist as an Enrothian tribe, I can take them down, though it seems to me that they have a pretty widespread range.

Let me make one point clear- the list of tribes and races exists ONLY to have a handy reference of tribes/races that have a significant presence/impact in Sanguia, as a resource for developers.

I see entries that I know Judy would be intrested in, others Gaffin would, others I would, others for Rookie, others for Grun, and I'm sure Arti would like to develop some, when he had the time.  I think he is just being gracious by not complaining.  Go ahead with entries there, but a masterplan seems a bit extreme.  Planning the masterplan would be okay as well, but I wouldn't start until everyone who wants to develop has the chance.

Alright. Then Bard can throw an entry in here, so can Grun, so can Gaffin, so can Arti, whenever they have the time. Making a plan, setting up a framework, forming organization does NOT exclude anyone. If someone has a particular affinity or expertise for an area of development, of course they will be consulted, just like they would be anyways. This "masterwork" does not change anything, except for a lack of organization. All I am doing here is networking and organizing.

  Actually, may I ask your goals for this plan, as I don't see any.  As I see it, this started out to develop New-Santhala, but Arti says a masterplan is not just to develop one place.  I understand you wantthe province your peopleare in to be developed, but I don'tthink we have the time.

The goals? i believe I've stated them several times in this thread.

List the areas in Sanguia that require development
Create a "database", or resource area, where developers can easily find information and links that relate to Sanguia
Form a team, whose main priority has already been established as development relating to Sanguia, like me, Brownie (?), and others, in order to provide expert advice to those interested in developing in Sanguia, and support each other
Develop the Sanguian area, eliminating "holes" in the map, and revising the entries in need of revision.
Thus, the acronym LCFD... hmmm.... that doesn't actually spell anything.... we'll work on that.

And finally, I'll finish on the subject of New-Santhala. If you would kindly look at the Masterowrk thread, you will find that New-Santhala is NOT a development priority. We simply don't have the manpower or time right now, so it's going to serve as a keystone. Eventually, I would like to see a thread detailing different buildings/people/districts/etc. of New-Santhala, and I believe that that WOULD prove an exception to the "one place" rule, considering it's importance. But that's a long way off. Instead, I'm urging developers to turn their attention to the King's Hollow, to Xythrian Ridge, to the Vale of Brownies- all the areas of Sanguia that have room in them for the details already so prevelant in other parts of the world. I'm not saying we don't have lots of details in Sanguia, but there is room for improvement, and we're going to fill that room.

[Rookie Brownbark]

Ok, well, in the spirit of building a bit more of a team, how about everyone saying what their particular expertise is within the Province?  Please, anyone feel free to post here, even if you don't have time to be involved in the project itself.  We need to know where the expertise lies, and that way if something does cross into what someone has already developed, it will be really easy to drop a quick pm and let them know.  I don't feel I really know who to ask about Sanguia at the moment - or even really who is working in the area.  Kind of bad .

Areas of Work within Sanguia

- Llaoihrr Brownies
- Brownie Vale
- Woodland plants and animals of the area (mainly through research rather than writing myself)

@ Nsiki - erm, could you possibly call me Rookie and not "Brownie"?  Thanks!

[Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth]

Second!
And.. erm... where'd i get Brownie from... OH! Brownbark. That's right, Rookie.
My mistake, and a hundred thousand apologies.
My area of Expertise
-Eyelians
-King's Hollow

[Azhira Styralias]

Well. my area of expertise is mainly the North and my own tribe, but I would be happy to help in any way with a small entry or two if needed. We're all a team here and I don't want to have the attitude of "Sorry, I can't help. Not my area..." or something silly like that. I can't promise full time help for Sanguia as I am dedicated to the North, but I can do whatever in between.

I'm pretty versatile so poke me if needed.

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

I dearly would recommend to go through the reserved entries soon, for then you will find some people who are interested in this area..
for example me - Chylikis. I don't want to write this town down necessarily, but have my say, but read yourself.

I see, that the Quallian is quite short, but I would like to see Wrens work not vanish either, so I thought I'll try to contact her, maybe she comes back. Otherwise I'll update it occasionally, I have read quite a lot about it, the people of the Heart visited for quite some time, as you might know.

[Drúadan]

I need (hopefully) only a few more days to finish up a Storm of 3 Nights draft, and then I shoudl be fully available to comments and discuss this. Until then, I find myself very busy, and must decline to take any major part. I did notice we were talking about areas of interest, so for now I will just say, that I am interested in two things.

Areas of Interest
-Coastal Development: My current "big project" is the Adanian Sea, and I would like to take part in any development along that coast. Gaffin, if you are working with the gnomes I wouldn't mind doing a bit of brainstorming with you when you go to write down Yorick. If that's alright with you. I also wouldn't mind writing the Bluffs of bran, woecaps, etc. entry as well.
-Elven forests: Especially the Zephyrian {Sp?} forest.

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Dru, does the Zeiphyrian need a revision? Are there not other things needed to develop more urgently? Even if it is not entirely up to date, it is not needed to rework it when there are so many other things to do.

[Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth]

Well, after we get our "areas of expertise" down, let's lay out the major areas that need development, what our priorities are. I say, give it a day or two, let others come and sign up, then we'll proceed with prioritizing.

[Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth]

Alright, check this link out: [Reserving Sanguian Entries]]http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12765.0.html][Reserving Sanguian Entries]
Note- For New Reservations only

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Nsiki, you should say, that this is meant for new reservations, you can't expect, that any old ones are necessarily covered . And every entry reserved here should be reserved in the approbiate forum as well, for that is where people might look first.

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