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Author Topic: Rimmerins People - a new tribe?  (Read 16581 times)
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Rookie Brownbark
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« Reply #45 on: 21 February 2009, 10:14:47 »

Nsiki, I feel that you are reading the tone of the comments rather than their actual content, or possibly only taking in the parts which suit your idea!  As far as I can see I have the same stance as Talia, and many of the other people who have commented have only shown support for the beginnings of a cultural interchange.

I have to say that I find this discussion increasingly frustrating as whatever I say seems to be taken as unbridled support when I state fairly clearly my fears and dislike of going too far with the idea.  The problems I see in realising the idea are acknowledged but not actually addressed, or at least I see very little evidence of it, so I end up repeating them in hope of a decent answer/discussion.
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #46 on: 21 February 2009, 11:59:19 »

I would like to add that my original post in this was not an endorsment of a new tribe, but that I was simply trying to convey that in a future time, this could be a tribe.  My comparing the Rimmerans man to the Metis was not to show that they should be a tribe, for I do not believe that the Metis should be considered their own people, and this from one.  What I tried to do, and obviously failed, was to show that this was a mere genesis of a tribe, something that could come about in a few hundred years or more.  Right now, all they are, as my opinion of Metis, is that they are a mixture of two or more tribes, a diluting of the tribes.  In my opinion, it takes much more than mixed blood to make a tribe.

I apologise for muddying the waters.
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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #47 on: 21 February 2009, 12:49:57 »

No, I apologize if I came off that way - in no way was i saying that either of you endorsed the idea, only that you added to it, and provided constructive criticism, and at least seemed open to the possibility of the beginning. And Rookie, I'm especially sorry you feel that way - I'm trying not too go to far with the idea, I mean, in the last post, I in fact accepted your proposition. I'm sorry the nomenclature tribe got mixed with this proposition, I think its made it seem like much more then it is.
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« Reply #48 on: 21 February 2009, 22:18:38 »

That's possibly true, although "group", "lots of intermarriage", "a society who think of themselves as predominantly Rimmerins rather than their original tribe" etc also suggest a tribe. Can I suggest giving us a quick timeline of how you suggest it could have happened - sort splitting the changing situation into stages with brief explanations for how each one happened - addressing each one in turn.  That might make the whole idea more plausible plus it might show us how far it had developed?  And it's totally possible that I've got the wrong impression of what you want to do in my head ;)
« Last Edit: 21 February 2009, 22:40:30 by Rookie Brownbark » Logged

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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #49 on: 21 February 2009, 23:28:22 »

Ya, the timeline'd be great, Rook. Thanks :D

Anyways, here's a bit of prose that I hope will clear the air a touch. Forgive the Santharian spellings :p
Elgar Myrkorson was tired, hungry, and above all, thirsty. he had been working in the fields for hours now, with tho hot summer sun beating down upon him. The carroots were growing in well enough this year, but the lack of rain lately had proved a real problem for the neeps. Ah well, can't be helped, he thought to himself. At least the pfepper plants were growing. And growing. And growing. The animals were looking healthy enough, luckily. His pa was a great herder, he was. Seemed he'd inherited a touch of the old beast-tongue from Granther, maybe. He didn't talk in the lows and howls his Granther could, but the way the Rimmilch's seemed to fawn on him, you'd think he could. Elgar was second generation Rimmerian. His mother, Shalla, was the daughter of a Rimmerian herself, a catch-all term for anyone with mixed blood here in the ring, and his father was the son of an old Eyelian and an Erepheorian maiden. Elgar himself had never met the two grandparents - they had died before he was born. it was a challenge to stay alive in the Ring sometimes it seemed. But of course, no Rimmerian would ever admit to that. They were a hardy folk, and Elgar was no exception. He was a tall individual, with light brown skin and robin's-egg eyes. He was not exactly rippling in muscles per say, but like his Eyelian ancestors, he could certainly pack a punch. Just the day, one of pa's cows had gotten loose somehow, and Elgar had wrestled the bull down, by hopping on its back and squeezing the things neck until it submitted.
Elgar smiled at the memory as he heaped a bundle of pfepper plants over his back. He couldn't wait until the festival in Onved next month - it was quite a trek, but most definitly worth it. That smary Eyelian, Vsika, from the town over would be staring open-mouthed when Elgar beat him, he thought. Bull-riding had always been the event Elgar had wanted to participate in, and it seemed that this month, his parents would finally let him. Elgar licked his lips - he could smell the Taensih roasting from here. In the distance, he could see the little cluster of cottages that made up the village, and smoke was pouring out all the chimneys. The sun was about to sink low over the mountains, and there were many coming in from the fields. Some of them were like Elgar, tall and lithe, while others, though Rimmerian still, looked more like Elgar's father, short and squat. There were a couple Eyelians coming in too, some of them to meet their Averonnian or Erephonian wives, others to relax with their Eyelian families.
Elgar strolled through the door, dropping the pfepper bundle on the table. "Ma, Pa, I'm home!" he shouted, and he could here his mother coming down the stairs. "A fair haul, me jsal," she smiled, her dark hair framing a wrinkled face. "Yer pa innay feeling well, he shan't be join' us tanight though. Imn't feeling ta well meself, either. Can ye bring the Rimmilchs in tamarrow?"
Elgar looked at his mother. She certainly did look a little feverish, her dark skin bearing a rosy glow. "Of cerse, Ma," he said. He couldn't wait to practice his bull-riding again.
« Last Edit: 22 February 2009, 02:08:41 by Nsikigan Ho'Tonanese Yourth » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: 22 February 2009, 02:38:23 »

Okaaaay....you're saying you want to go one way (i.e. you said that tribe was too strong a word, and expressed a desire to have the beginnings of a Rimmerins civilisation) and then you write something which feels completely different!  These people clearly feel they are more "Rimmerins" than anything else, clearly see themselves as part of a "Rimmerins" tribe, and you even indicate that this a common feeling throughout the ring.   huh
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« Reply #51 on: 22 February 2009, 02:51:28 »

hmmm....
I didn't mean for it to come across that way... what I was aiming for with the "catch-all" term is that there might not be much consitency from Rimmerian to Rimmerian, and I included that the Eyelians, etc. lived along side them. Its just, if your mother has mixed ansestry going back however long, your dad's Averonnian and Eyelian, what does that make you, really?
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #52 on: 22 February 2009, 03:12:40 »

But does that make you Rimmerian?  And how/why do you come to that?  And would this feeling come to encompass others around you?

I'd say yes, but not in the time/context of where we are placing Santharia.  On an individual basis, maybe there are those who feel they are Rimmerians, but I don't think this feelling of shared identity would coelesce into a tribal mindset for many years yet.  A family here, a family there who assert that they are Rimmerian, but many more who follow there father's or mother's heritage, if in name, not complete adherence to the old way of life.  Remember, for the most part, there is no great communal entity, no newspapers, no TV, no radio to gel a community together as such, so forging ahead with a national (tribal) identity would be very slow going.

The Metis came much later in history than where we place Santharia, and even still, I would not claim the Metis as having tribal status in the Santharian context.  And this at a time when reading was more widespread than before, and where train and transportation, telegraphs, could all bring the nation together in a way that is not available in this world.
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« Reply #53 on: 22 February 2009, 03:31:26 »

hmmm....
 Its just, if your mother has mixed ansestry going back however long, your dad's Averonnian and Eyelian, what does that make you, really?

Quote
That's possibly true, although "group", "lots of intermarriage", "a society who think of themselves as predominantly Rimmerins rather than their original tribe" etc also suggest a tribe.

!!

The beginnings of a tribe would be more the beginnings of cultural exchange, a few festivals, a few intermarriages (although not that common, maybe it's just becoming acceptable in some circles?). Stories would travel especially well, because everyone loves a good story and storytellers traditionally travel.

What you have here is a tribe/group.
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« Reply #54 on: 22 February 2009, 03:44:15 »

I think people of Santharia (and other nations) would predominantly think of themselves as "Woldhavians", or "Bearcreekers", possibly even "Hawk's Aerieans"..

Of course, these groupos would be the folk from the three small hamlets of Woldhaven, Bear Creek, and Hawk's Aerie. Not to be confused with those odd people on the other side of the mountain, them "Hawknesters"...


Nsiki is thinking on to big a scale, like Alt suggested.
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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #55 on: 22 February 2009, 04:35:15 »

Not on too big a scale - but too broadly, perhaps. Perhaps the problem here is that the culture would be too homogenoius, that there's too much Rimmerian "unity"? So, maybe we still have the phrase and CERTAIN cultural traits, but not any kind of uniform identity, only the term Rimmerian to explain their ancestry, as it were. Like "white", as opposed to "English", so to speak.
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

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Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
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« Reply #56 on: 22 February 2009, 10:01:26 »

Well, aye, here's the rub - its not a tribe thing, not a marriage thing - its a regional thing. The people of the Ring, no matter if the be of mixed blood or not share certain characteristics. Not minutae, mind you - but by bringing all these people to one place, the men and women of the Ring will have adapted/changed their lifestyle to a degree. Forget the marrying, its not Rimmerian, its just Rimmerin!
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
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