Ulki'aiá (New Move) The divine account of Quáel'cáo

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[Takór Salenár]

Well, that's alright. But you did not answer my question about sin.

[Falethas Whisperwind]

Could you provide some etymological background for Ulki'aiá? It doesn't fit phonologically into Styrásh; could be feasible, though, if it's a loanword. Although it doesn't seem logical that the elves would borrow a foreign word for an ancient religious text, they're too haughty.

Just curious as to where it came from/what it means.

[Miés´efér Lytherá]

Takór Salenár,
     As to your questions on sin I offer this line of logic from RL: Scientist may prove that the earth isn't flat as was taught by the old church, philosophers might discredit religious beliefs, and a majority may stop believing in sin, but there are always those who choose to believe in ancient religions, and as each of these religions offer up moral codes, believers look upon the breaking those codes as sin.  The elves as a whole are a very philosophical and logic-driven race, but who's to say that some can't hold different views on life, and therefore; who's to say that some can't believe that to transgress their moral code is to sin. Afterall sin in its most simple form is simply breaking a rule.  Therefore; I contest that it is indeed very feasible for some elves to hold to a concept of sin and righteousness.  In RL Americans as whole are becoming less religious, but that doesn't stop those people who choose to newly align themselves with such strict denominations as Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormons.  Some will always desire things to be painted in black and white, and does that desire really lack any more logic than any philosophical concept such as those held by the majority of elves? No matter the concept's foundation, it will at least in part allways be based on speculation, and this allows for choices as to which speculation to believe in.

@Quaélh'Orín, I can not argue with you when Styrásh in the point of debate. Is there something that you'd suggest using here instead?  The name really just has to relay the idea of new beginnings. I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions you could give me here.

As allways thank you both for your input, and I look forward to working with you in the future.

Keep Dreaming,
Mifer

[Seeker]

Takor, I pretty much know nothing about religion in Santharia.  So please forgive my intrusion into your post.  one question for context.  Does this entry tie into any of the already described religions or beliefs?  Or is this new?

My two cents. For me, I think the concept of sin would be universal for all intelligent beings.  Unless we are saying that Elves are logical to the extreme like the Vulcan's in StarTrek.  (I tend to beleive that the Elves have more feeling in them than the Vulcans.)  However I also think that using that exact word "sin" resonates very Christian.  When I read the post I feel like I am at church in RL, perhaps that is the goal.

[Takór Salenár]

I‘ll think that Mifer aims to have a quite new religion, though tied to the old elven one. The new prophet rejects the twelve gods and reveres only Avá the creator(dreamer).

To sin:

I would like to avoid the word „sin“ for the elves out of following reasons

-  It is burdened too much with the western common perception/association of moral, western moral. (e.g. it is unmoral to have two wives...)

(I say here ‚common‘, for in theology the basic meaning is: sin=distance to god: If you are distant to god, you are prone to break his laws. What these laws are, is human interpretation - what is seen as sin, or moral lapse can very well vary.... )

That would fit very well for the humans of Santharia, I think.

- The true character of the elves is not yet defined, but so far I thought we want to have not just humans with pointed ears. So why not choose a more buddhist way of their perception of the world, what would fit to them much better, IMHO.

(Buddhism e.g. doesn‘t know the concept of sin as the western churches have it in different variations, nor the word ‚original sin‘ nor ‚collective guild‘. It speaks more of beneficial or not beneficial deeds or thoughts, which are resulting in a good or bad Karma. They don‘t know forgiveness (from god) nor atonement in the same way as the three western religions)

Or anything else.

- Generally - why could not have the elves a different moral codex than the humans?

Not much thoughts have been invested here, I fear, but  so far I thought, that we want a very different race than the humans.


Mifer, your task would be mainly, to find a different word  for sin.

Misdeed, misdoing, perpetration, misconduct ???

I‘m missing the feeling for the English language to know what would be right.

[Falethas Whisperwind]

If you could provide some phrases you'd like translated, I'd be happy to help

I was going to try and whip up a few titles on my own, but I don't want to detract from the entry by injecting a title that doesn't reflect your intent. But I had been thinking along the lines of "The Sun Rises" or "Dawning Spring," something that could convey new beginnings in keeping with the elves' inborn love of nature, you know?

[Deklitch Hardin]

Something I've been curious about since the first time I saw this topic ... what do you actually mean by 'new move'? It doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere in the entry, just in the title. This is just a question for my own curiousity.

[Artimidor Federkiel]

On the sin discussion: I'd put the concept of "sin" definitely only on the human side. The karma comparison comes much closer to the elven way of thinking, I'd say.

I'd go even a step further to make it even clearer and say that elves act more on aesthetical (beauty) than ethical principles (God given law, or law that is given by a race). Murder e.g. disrupts natural harmony and thus is an offence against universal beauty. Elves try to find back to the original idea of the Dream of Avá by having to live in this "flawed reality", they apply that dreamy idea as a kind of "moral principle" in a way. Which is entirely different to humans, who might believe in Gods, who pretty much define what is good and evil. As an example take human Earthen religions, where the Gods leave a clear codex to their prophets to spread among their followers ("You shall not..."). Not so in elven religion, here morality comes from the inner self.

There are of course other elves, who follow a different interpretation of Avá's Dream, and become dark minions. In a twisted way they believe however that they execute the Dream of Avá, not by finding back to its original beauty, but by realizing that mirrored image of evil on Caelereth. But dark elves are an entirely different story.

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly!

We would dearly need an elven expert who works on such stuff - and tries to make the elves very different to the other races, they all are anyhow too similar.

I thought, while thinking about moral/sin, that one could break up the family structure in the sense, that the children are cared for by the whole tribe and that e.g. each child is seen as part of the whole community, not belonging to a parent, that ties between partners/lovers are not necessarily meant for life, not out of lack of emotion, but because the structure of the society is just different, maybe because the concept that one can 'possess/own' another person is unknown, so there wold be no room for jealousy in the relation between partners. Etc...  just some random thoughts.

Humans wold probably see the elves then as emotionless.

[Decipher Ziron]

@Talia: I found those ideas really interesting- I've often had trouble trying to work out in what senses the Elves weren't just, as put before' pointy-eared humans. In my opinion something generic should be decided as the root of their culture, a common thread throughout all elven society.

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