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Author Topic: Weavers  (Read 15999 times)
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Arancaytar Ilyaran
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« Reply #15 on: 08 April 2006, 11:40:00 »

Wow, what a fascinating read, Rayne. That description "Outside the world, behind the Sky, beyond the farthest dying star" somehow sounds like part of a poem - perhaps due to the meter. Mh, perhaps...

Outside the world, behind the Sky,
Beyond the farthest dying star
The weavers weave, forever try
To mend the fraying dream, and bar
The door through which the Nightmares lie...


Gah. Not good at improvising.


If Fire is Earth desiring to be Wind,
And Water is Wind trying to be Earth,
What then is Fire wishing to be Water?

Santharia, a place of world creation and roleplaying.

Edited by: Arancaytar Ilyaran at: 7/17/05 2:35
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #16 on: 08 April 2006, 11:57:00 »

I think that's very good improvising! Yes, it seems my poetical writing gets the better of me sometime.

Maybe there might be some way to put the story of the Weavers into verse...

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Arancaytar Ilyaran
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« Reply #17 on: 07 May 2006, 18:34:00 »

What I wrote could make a good ending to such a poem... perhaps the preceding part might recount their history in some way? As I said elsewhere, too tired to think straight. I'll come back to it tomorrow morning...;)  


If Fire is Earth desiring to be Wind,
And Water is Wind trying to be Earth,
What then is Fire wishing to be Water?

Santharia, a place of world creation and roleplaying.

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Coren
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« Reply #18 on: 08 May 2006, 09:20:00 »

Nothing useful comment-wise, but couldn't leave without sharing:

Rayne, it's so pleasing to have you back! I've missed all your wonderful contributions :)  

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #19 on: 08 May 2006, 10:05:00 »

I like the idea, Aran! Though I might be a little hesitant about doing it in tetrameter. Usually tetrameter is reserved for children's poems and stories. Pentameter might be better, but I suppose we can discuss that later.

It's good to be back, Coren, and I'm glad to see you're still around! :hug  

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #20 on: 07 June 2006, 18:53:00 »

A few questions for you Rayne, maybe they will help you structure your entry better.

What is the general occurence of Weavers in the world? Do these guys appear from time to time in various places claiming that they are Weavers? Because if they don't we would only have the myths about them to rely on.

Also, how did the myths/stories about Weavers spread around the world? Were the southern Sarvonian humans at the origin of this spreading? Still, what you tell us about the Avennorian Weaver myths is not quite an accurate tale. Actually if I think about, let's say, the Anpagans coming into contact with such myths, I would say that they would probably identify in these stories one of their local ones - about the Daedhirians. So you should tweak that version a bit in order to resemble more what actually the Weavers are.

Of course, there is also another way to this. At least for Nybelmar. Murmillions do have some elven ancestry, they use Styrash transcripts in their language, they have a "holy" writing style that could be viewed as originating in Styrash and so on. So perhaps the elven myth about the Weavers survived in their culture in a certain form. Maybe they have identified the concept of Weavers with their aspiration of leaving/mastering this world, so a researcher familiar with both Sarvonia and Nybelmar could produce the theory that these Murmillion beliefs might point out to the existence of these Weavers. The situation is a bit tricky (lol, yes, Murmillions are quite a complicated bunch) because we could also make it fit your initial intention - so that the Weavers would be despised. Since the Murmillions do not think too highly of this world, they would regard any means to prolonge their stay here as a capital sin. Because the Weavers seem to live forever (or they don't?) that would be "evil incarnated" for them. Whatever version you like, I'm fine with it (hmmm... even both of them would work if I think better). I can even write this section of the entry for you if you want - provided that you tell me which one you would like to use.

For the Anpagans, the situation would be different. Instead of having a myth spawned within their culture we would have a borrowed and adapted one. Their interest in it would be generated by their vicinity with the Daedhirian mages, but in order to prevent the Anpagans from identifying the Weavers with just another sort of Daedhirians, the original Sarvonian Weaver stories that reach their ears should be slightly changed (to resemble more the elven ones).

Now, Nybelmar's first contact with Sarvonians was around 500 bS, and the Varcopasian/Stratanian sailors were the ones to make that contact. So perhaps there is no need to change the Avennorian version but only to make a new Varcopasian/Stratanian one. Since those guys were quite some well traveled sailors I figure that they could have borrowed the myths right from the elves and not from the Avennorians.

Also, if these Weavers do not show up, more or less, on a regular basis around the world, I think a Murmillion and an Anpagan version for Nybelmar would be enough. Coren, that doesn't mean that you cannot mention them in the southwest - we just blame it on the Anpagan influence. Why? Well, because, there are only two nations in Nybelmar that make the link with Sarvonia: Aca-Santerra most of the time, Anis-Anpagan in the rest of the time :)  The Santerrans are quite a self-righteous arrogant bunch, while the Anpagans have made quite a habit from importing "alien" beliefs and cultural products.

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Arancaytar Ilyaran
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« Reply #21 on: 07 June 2006, 19:03:00 »

Quote:
Usually tetrameter is reserved for children's poems and stories.


Eärendil was a mariner
That tarried in Arvernien
He built a boat of timber felled
In Nimbrethil to journey in...


Of course, you could argue that hobbit-style is similar to a child's, but still.:p  


If Fire is Earth desiring to be Wind,
And Water is Wind trying to be Earth,
What then is Fire wishing to be Water?

Santharia, a place of world creation and roleplaying.

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #22 on: 07 June 2006, 19:52:00 »

The Weavers are known throughout the world because of trade, because sailors visit and tell stories of what they've seen, and people take those stories and adapt them. No, the stories told by Avennorian sailors is not accurate. Not in the least bit. This is why the entry focuses mainly on the evlish myths, those passed down from acient elven scripture, and not on the stories. Weavers, as far as I have accounted, do not show up. They live separate and stay separate.

Obviously, with Nybelmar developing so fast, I don't know what resource your have. I didn't know them using elvish myths and things in the Murmillion culture. I mainly focused on humans have a more suspicious view of Weavers because humans, in general, tend to view things with fear and suspicion while elves don't. They are your tribe, though, and you know their behaviors and tendencies better than I do. I am willing to aquiesce to whatever myth best suits the Weavers for your tribe, or any tribe from Nybelmar.

The Stratanians may have a view of Weavers a little kinder than the Avennorians (who are particularly human-like humans, if you know what I mean). Their view may be less severe, though I'm not sure if you have anything in mind. I'm not completely sure about the Stratanian take on things. Perhaps Talia might be able to help us out a little, given she's the main expert of the south?

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #23 on: 08 June 2006, 03:25:00 »

Finally my head is clear enough to read this entry!
Generally - you did again a real good job, Rayne, I enjoyed reading it and I‘m curious how it will come out finally.

Some comments on the post itself and the comments themselves:

Quote:

Ava had sent them and decided this world could never again be their own, and they together wove in tandem a city and a place outside the world, behind the sky, beyond the farthest dying star, where they could live forever watching the mortals and forever guarding the course of fate and time. This place came to be called the Web.


I like that part and the following very much, it is poetic, but have to nitpick nevertheless, for you think in earthen terms here. „the farthest dying star“ comes from your earthen imagination of stars, which have different distances from earth - only then you can imagine a star far away. The Caelerethean stars are different, they are all in a range not to far away from each other, though you can imagine a „thickness“ of the shell they are moving in. But generally, there are none outside the „shell“ of the  void. Maybe you could alter it to: „outside the world, behind the sky, deep in the unknown .*add other adjective*void“?

I like the thought, that they guide fate, not necessarily balance, though a tiny bit of balance from time to time could explain, that some evil was prevented, some not? What if they mend one hole before another? Myth and Lore of course only.


Quote Fluffy
Quote:
But imagine you were a Weaver - you know the fabric of Dream is very thin, and you know there are beings on the other side who longed for centuries to break through it and who would wreak havoc as soon as they cross the line. And you put all your efforts to maintain this line - only to watch how another ignorant bearded fool ruins all your work playing with his magic. Would this leave you cold?
...That's how I see it: the Weavers, despite their immortality, are also only humans, whose patience isn't endless.


I see them different, you see them to human like  I think- though they may have been once humans, elves.. they are no longer, don‘t have the desires humans have, aren‘t able to feel rage.. at least, that is my impression..


Rayne post 2544
Quote:
As for summoning in Caelereth, because no creature is passing through an dimensional barriers, the fabric is unaffected. If there are any barriers separating beasts and summoners in Caelereth, those barriers are not so critical. If the barrier between Caelereth and the Netherworld became too weak, the Netherbeasts would be able to freely pass through, and that might make things a little hectic. The fabric grows thin by beasts being summoned through it, though more so from dangerous beasts trying to break through.


Isn‘t this a bit contradictory? The summoned beast/demons do make a little hole or make the „fabric „ thin, do they? Then what means, the fabric is unaffected?

OK, to the Aeruillin Myth:

I have to talk to Artemis first, but generally I would change this a bit in following directions. The Hjoria are generally fine, but I woudn‘t make such a monster out of them, but describe them in a way, that they could been mixed up with the new flying race. I doubt, that they have their knowledge from the Cholians, for the migration pattern is different. If you don‘t mind, I take your idea of the Hjoria and do different myths for the whole continent together with Artemis, for there are a lot things around which are not on the site yet, but only in our heads.

The Stratanians/Shendar:

We decided at Santhmoot, that the ancestors of the Shendar/Stratanians of shendar origin were living in the Manthria region before the Avennorians arrived. They were forced to flee and to move south. So, they could have had contact with the elves in the Zeiphirian forest before, they were probably saved from their persecutors through the Maeverhim, who allowed them passage through the Sharadon. Their view of the weavers can and is therefore be very different from that of the Avennorians (they surely think good of the weavers, if the Avenorrians think bad of them).

I could even develop a special sight for the Shendar. I plan to do some day the „path of the warriors“ for them, a very simplified and altered version of the ideas of Castanedas Don Juan (if you know him). The way of the warrior has not really to do with weaverlike magic, but could be connected in some way.  I will think about the Stratanian/Varcopasian sight of the weavers as well and adapt it to what Smith comes up with. (or what he needs)

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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« Reply #24 on: 08 June 2006, 15:50:00 »

Quote:
I see them different, you see them to human like I think- though they may have been once humans, elves.. they are no longer, don‘t have the desires humans have, aren‘t able to feel rage.. at least, that is my impression..


That's why they are so interesting to me - because I think of them as human beings with all the fears, hopes and feelings. Just humans, who fight in a struggle, that lasts for millennia, and who every day have to find the strength do go on and do what they have to do. If you take the ability to feel away from them, they will become dull godlike characters. It's the weaknesses that make a hero, weaknesses everyone else couldn't overcome.


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The mouse flies!

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« Reply #25 on: 08 February 2005, 18:18:00 »

I wasn't there when the weavers were discussed the first time - I can only read the result of the discussion on the site, and it says they were mortals before gaining their knowledges. Is this something to be changed?

Talia, I do not disagree with you, but you can't imagine a person right or wrong, you just imagine this person. Your picture is different from mine that's all. Since Rayne is writing the entry, it's up to her to deside, how she wants the weavers to be.


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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #26 on: 08 February 2005, 18:24:00 »

No one knows how the Weavers are!


They were mortals before gaining their knowledges? What does that mean? Some human scholars think that Weavers were born mortal, that those who were born Weavers were taken by the weavers and trained to weave whereupon they wove until they died. The end.

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #27 on: 09 August 2005, 11:26:00 »

I have a thought about how summoning could work. The summoner first searches for a weak spot. Like a little hole. Then he could ‘stretch out’ the fabric to make the hole large enough to let a beast through. Once the beast has passed, the hole gets smaller again, but is a little larger then before. So after many summonings at the same weak spot, the hole would get large enough for the beasts to squeeze themselves through.

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #28 on: 09 August 2005, 11:44:00 »

Well, remember that the concept of the "fabric" is a metaphor. There really exists no such fabric, invisible or visible, in the universe. Thus, I agree with you up to the point of the holes. I see summoning more as a sort of "passing through" the fabric. For example, if you take a piece of fabric and run a liquid through it, it often doesn't go through too quickly or too easily. Over time, however, the threads of the fabric start to get loose and break, and the part of the fabric through which the water runs becomes weak and thin.

This is the concept I had for the fabric. It is, though, just a concept. The problem with the stretching of holes is that holes provide no "broken threads" to be "mended" by the Weavers. And if a hole got too big, big enough to actually "break thread," you might have a problem with netherbeasts leaking into the world of Caelereth.

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #29 on: 09 August 2005, 12:00:00 »

Well, 'broken threads' could be the reason for a hole. Or why the hole is bigger then before. If it would be non-elastic, you could make an entrance once you can just let an unlimited amount of beasts go through (until mended).

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