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Author Topic: Drakelet  (Read 18678 times)
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #15 on: 24 November 2009, 14:44:59 »

I had no intention of trying to start an argument. Rayne, you of all people should know me to be above such things, I just was under the impression the site as a whole (both RPG and Dev) were trying to move away from Decimals since a converter was accessible for exact measurements, and they can look a bit tacky when put into eloquent writing.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #16 on: 24 November 2009, 22:28:54 »

I think the link Fox posted makes it clear, that we came already to a decision.  


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I'm against decimals - this is scientific syntax of a different age.

Quote Artimidor in that thread, and he spoke for many.

Of course there are many older entries which still use them, or newer, where it slipped through. Marvin's comment, that it was already used by the Arab's does not really contradict that. I won't do a wiki search now, how widespread the use was. We just 'defined/agreed' (most of us), that it is not yet invented. I'm glad there is one thing we have already decided. Maybe we should write it in some forum monsterthreads - if it is not already there.

Rayne, your entry will only get better, if you avoid them.  heart
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #17 on: 24 November 2009, 23:19:51 »

The little elf flips open a (non-Santharia) encyclopedia and flips to John Napier, generally understood to be the inventor of the decimal point (as well as logarithms!) and checks his dates:  1550 - 1617 AD. This would correlate to 1550-1617 A.S. in the Santharian calendar. So, it would seem (logically) that decimal points have been in existence for probably over 50 years now.

And even the Bard herself has used decimal places in the past (from the RPG Board): The Bard is a human woman, about thirty-five Sorren years, 1.8 peds tall, buxom and full-hipped,  with cropped brown hair and cool green eyes.

The little elf smiles and vanishes away, decimal points still in place. She does not agree that the entry would be better without them, but is still open to persuasion!
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« Reply #18 on: 25 November 2009, 00:14:29 »

Little elf, that entry from Judy is as old as the other ones you mentioned! I would try to persuade you with the promise to paint this drakelet for you, but I still have to do the Gynnia...   I'll post what I would have in mind later if I ever would come to do it. Though, my tablet is getting hot in the moment ;)

*looks at where the sun is standing in the sky and could be used as a measurement of time  if it would not rain and runs*
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« Reply #19 on: 25 November 2009, 00:21:25 »

Thank you, Miss Rayne. I've just always been taught starting a sentence with a conjunction is wrong. I still believe that, but it's your entry and ultimately your decision. I'll swing through later to give another complete read-over.
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« Reply #20 on: 25 November 2009, 03:09:21 »

Lorek, hasn't anybody ever told you to never correct an English Major's grammar.  grin Bad Idea  You will just a get a grammar rule book quoted back to you which seems to reverse anything you ever learned in your elementary years.

at tleast that's my experience.  shocked
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #21 on: 25 November 2009, 03:40:09 »

Well, that is a bit like quoting the law to a lawyer. We do get paid to argue that white is black, after all.

Personally, I am with Rayne on this one. Decimal points - imho - do look more elegant and succinct. HOWEVER, it WAS decided that decimal points should not be used. And I too had to change quite a few (new) entries to comply with that.

Rayne, dear, I guess we should play by the rules. Why waste your energy debating a procedural point? I would much rather see you working on one of your glorious poems. Every little helps ;)
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« Reply #22 on: 25 November 2009, 04:37:59 »

Unfortunately, little elves with highly logical minds and very non-conformist attitudes are rarely persuaded by the bandwagon argument. If the arguments put forth are reasonable, well, that is something entirely different, but arguments consisting of "This is just the way it is," especially since the way it "is" happens to be a relatively new state of affairs, fails to convince the rational mind.

I've just always been taught starting a sentence with a conjunction is wrong. I still believe that...

As a warning, it would be better not to speak this too loud or too forcefully. There is the unfortunate circumstance in academia that opinions are generally transposed on to character, and proscriptionists/traditionalists are generally looked upon poorly. As an example from literature:

Since language is a a product of culture, these views reflect opposite pictures of cultural standards as well. As a consequence, questions of good and bad language are part of a much broader debate between those who advocate in recognizing and promoting just a single cultural tradition (traditionalists) and those who advocate the value of competing traditions in language, the arts, history, and literature (relativists).
--Edwin L. Battistella, "Bad Language: Realism versus Relativism."

It might also be appropriate perhaps, to look at some writers such as Geneva Smitherman and Rosina Lippi-Green, who generally see the promotion of a 'standard language' as alienating social minorities. While there is a great amount of literature about how many of the grammatical conventions are mere myth ("This folklore about because appears in no handbook, but it is gaining currency. It probably stems from advice aimed at avoiding sentence fragments..." --Joseph Williams, Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace), these are more than likely readings you will end up reading in your college courses. Just a word to the wise: know how what you promote portrays your character and ideology.


Rayne smiles at all who have come to participate in the thread (and blows a kiss to Coren, for whom she is terribly fond). With the US holiday approaching, she bids all farewell to all, and dissipates from the thread for the long weekend.
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #23 on: 25 November 2009, 04:46:08 »

Rayne, I don't know what you are exactly looking for in terms of an argument for or against decimals. Does Arti have to come and lay down an ultimatum before this entire thing is brought to rest? Must it really come to such a stance when it would be such a simple task to do as everyone has already requested and brought forth the Board's Ruling?

You will quickly turn everyone off to reading your entries, if such an attitude is portrayed by you when people attempt to give you direction on how the board works now. You aren't as active as you used to be, so even you must get used to new rules and regulations put into place in your periodic absence. We aren't ganging up on you, but merely trying to explain to you "things change", and even oldies need to accept it. Change happens, and exceptions aren't exactly made just because "I started here before ya'll" and "I remember these entries which are 10 years old". It isn't fair to those around you for you to try to make yourself an exception to the rules.  

I love reading what you bring to the boards, but I don't like reading pages upon pages of what this is turning out to be, especially over such a little aspect of the entire world.

One must ask: Is it worth it?
« Last Edit: 25 November 2009, 04:47:59 by Kalína Mërénwčn » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: 25 November 2009, 12:58:37 »

Very cute entry! ^^
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« Reply #25 on: 26 November 2009, 04:21:53 »

If the only thing holding this perfectly acceptable and worthy entry from being integrated is a silly decimal point, then I object!



Let her have the decimal. It seriously does not curtail any of my development whatsoever.

If this entry is allowed to sit and rot in the unfinished status because of silly debate over a decimal, then that is a huge disappointment.

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« Reply #26 on: 26 November 2009, 04:31:37 »

Yep, it's unnecessary energy spent. With or without the point, the entry is what counts and should be checked. Nobody is likely to get imprisoned, tarred and feathered, banned or whatever for using a decimal point methinks.  cool
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #27 on: 26 November 2009, 04:49:25 »

I believe why this was being discussed in length was because of consistency, but if you guys don't care, then no point in discussing it further. Feel free to throw all the discussions relating to the topic out the window and people can do as they please.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #28 on: 26 November 2009, 04:56:32 »

What then do we say to the next contributor who wants to use decimals? It doesn't matter? Do as you please? We won't strive for consistency anymore in this respect? And what do we say to all those, who wanted to use decimals as well and were told to change them, because the majority including our sage preferred it the other way (and I too  buck)

I don't think that Rayne would insist on using them.
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« Reply #29 on: 27 November 2009, 18:20:06 »

To be honest, I do find decimals easier to understand with my modern brain, and still have to use parts of my body (a forearm for a fore) to work out how big the measurements are.  However, I still like using them more than I like decimals. Hopefully I can explain/work out why :P

The reason that's always been quoted to me about why we don't use the decimals is that they don't have a medieval feel, just like words that feel too scientific, such as "genes".  I have to agree here.  When I see an average height for a tribe of 1.8 peds, just to take an example, the decimal suggests to me that this researcher really knows that it's definitely 1.8 - that he/she has gone around a group of 50+ randomly selected individuals and measured them all and then calculated the average.  An average of 1 ped, 2 fores and a palmspan, however, makes me think they've just sized up all the people from that tribe they know and made an assumption, which is probably more likely.  I'd probably change this to "about, on average, a couple of palmspans under 2 peds", because it sounds less like a list but you still get that less accurate, more medieval feel.

Another thing against using decimals is why would the general population think in tenths of a ped when they split this measurement into 3 fores, then split this into 3 palmspans. It seems to me that they're more likely to round it to the nearest 3rd of a ped (i.e. nearest fore) or to the nearest 9th (i.e. nearest palmspan).  So decimals seem a bit counter-intuitive. 

I also think that making people use the measurements system actually forces them to get to grips with it.  It's very true that peds and fores and stuff don't make a lot of sense until you've really spent a whole afternoon trying to visualise what size of mount would be able to carry a 15 nailsbreath brownie (or the logical equivalent).  Decimals are easier for most people because that's what they've been taught in school, but they come with all those maths memories too, all that calculus and rounding errors and blah blah blah.  Your average medieval guy isn't going to think in them, he's going to be much more familiar with the measurements system.
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