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Author Topic: Lightning Drake (For Seeker)  (Read 24073 times)
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #45 on: 08 January 2010, 03:10:46 »

thumbup It looks good :)
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #46 on: 08 January 2010, 11:22:32 »

I like the words "shock" "bolt" and "thunder" rather than "lightning". Lightning sounds to contemporary to me. I like "thunderbolt" or "shockbolt" as a way for medieval people to describe lightning, or its effects. Lightning charges is too scientific...perhaps if a gnome were describing these things, as they are the more scientific.

As for the gods, Fox's entry says this about their chief god:

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Avhan is most often associated with fire and light.

Lightning!

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Death, then, is a way in which they can pass that 'barrier' of molten rock and descend even further, into the semi-spiritual, semi-physical realm of Trum-Baroll, the Stone Father.

For Dwarves, the god whom is paid respects in death is Trum-Baroll himself, according to the dwarven beliefs entry.  thumbup
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« Reply #47 on: 08 January 2010, 12:15:12 »

(I'm fairly certain ME is Middle English)

Lighting:
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1350–1400; ME, var. of lightening.

Thunderbolt:
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1400–50; late ME thondre bolte.

Shock:
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meaning "to give (something) an electric shock" is from 1706

Bolt:
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The notion of "quick escape" (c.1225) is from a crossbow arrow's flight, as is lightning bolt.


Based on my research, lighting and bolt are the oldest words. Though really, lets be honest, thondre bolte looks WAY cooler than any of the terms listed above.

Still, I'm looking for a distinct look, those currents of lightning slithering across the drake's enormous form. Thunderbolt and shock don't do that as well. And thunder isn't the same as lighting.

I will change "Grothar" to Avhan. Thank you for the research, Azhira~! You're an angel.  heart
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« Reply #48 on: 08 January 2010, 14:27:22 »

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Myth/Origin:
During the year of darkness following the Dragonstorm, myth weaves the tale of a great storm that raged over Thalambath. For weeks it showered over the city. The people called and cried for reprieve from the horrible thunderstorm that threw down lightning from dark and tumultuous skies, from the thunder that roared through the air. They prayed to Avhan to stop the endless storm, but as the storm arose from the depression and anxiety of the Thalambath people, he could not eliminate it entirely from the sky. Therefore, he gave the storm a more corporeal form, turning it into hundreds of drakes that fled to the nearby volcanoes, and there they have dwelled ever since. When storms again come to the area, the people of Thalambath say these dragons once again recall their violent origins, and take flight to chase the lightning.

Avhan is considered an omnipotent god, so he would not be one who 'could not eliminate it (the storm) entirely from the sky'.

On the other hand, he would make it a punishment for sins. You could instead say, "They prayed to Avhan to stop the endless storm, but as the storm arose from their sins, Avhan would not eliminate it entirely from the sky. However, hearing their cries, he chose to take mercy, and decided to give the storm a more corporeal form, turning it into hundreds of drakes that fled to the nearby volcanoes, and there they have dwelled ever since.  When the storms again come to the area, the people of Thalambath say these dragons are to remind them of their sins, and the dragons flit through the storm as a demonstration to those beneath of Avhan's power, as well as his mercy."



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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #49 on: 08 January 2010, 17:02:34 »

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Ah, you know me, though. I like to get things done and move on. There is so much to be developed!

That‘s the case with everybody. But things need to be done thoroughly, there is of course a bit not so nice work involved, but as you are such a quick writer, you should not avoid it ;)


The lightning stuff seems to be solved.

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Thalambath does not believe in Grothar, you can find it here:
http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,13828.0.html
You mentioned this--but this is a problem without a solution. What do I change it to?

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As a dwarf whose tribe has accepted the belief of the other clans, Bertius does not believe in Queprur, see dwarven belief: http://www.santharia.com/races/dwarven_belief.htm
Shall I change it to Trum-Barroll? Or perhaps I could just replace it with "Death," personifying it instead of attributing it directly to a belief system.

Rayne, I expected that you read and searched that stuff yourself - how else will you get more knowledge about our world? Maybe you should consider, not only to comment more, but read up stuff which was written while you were not here - or even unfinished submissions like that from Fox which contains already now important information ? (Apart that they are one of my favourite stuff, not only, because it is in my area). Therefore I set the links! Now Azhira did your work, and she knows more. I think the question about Trum-Baroll could have been answered by yourself as well. We do nothing else than reading the stuff and trying to interpret it.

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Asebell is definitely is no Shendar name.
It's not a dwarven name either. But I concur. Perhaps you can suggest a more Shendar name for me?

I gave you those already. Ase‘bell

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If you're writing in a journal (and this quote is from this guy's research notes), you will not state in every entry that "Oh, by the way, in case you had forgotten, these are the races of all the people with me. In fact, let me add in their heights, birthdays, and favorite colors, too." You just do not do this in research writing. The focus is on the journey--the people were introduced beforehand.

That‘s right, but you could have done it in your introduction, where you introduce your researcher.

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I would stress as well, that he is an extraordinaire dwarf, who does not mind to venture on high mountains instead of deep caves.. Can only add to the flavour.
I don't really see how this detail is pertinent to lightning drakes.

Well, why don‘t you then give any names at all? It is not important either, that it was a dwarf or how he was named. It is all about giving flavur to an entry, even if it distracts a bit from the main subject.


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I could say, it is not important for your description of the encounter with the dragons, that it is a dwarf at all, so why do you mention a race at all? Why the trouble to use a dwarf, if another race would be so more easier? Why don‘t you take a Kaizranian, that would resolve ALL problems. Do I see some stubbornness here?
It makes more sense to me to have mountain-like geographical features researched by a race that inhabits mountain-like geographical features. It makes more sense to me to have a race deeply associated with EARTH to research a feature also associated with EARTH. This simply seems more logical to me. And i mention race because, if I didn't, you would have told me that I should. 

The last could well have been the case ;)
You are dragging arguments out of the nowhere now. Why should people who live actually near that mountain and are endangered by it have not more interest in researching it than dwarves who don‘t like by definition to go above ground?


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There is no other volcano around, and if you want to have one of the smaller ones attached to it, the same problems are valid.
Oh. I thought those were volcanoes in the Land of Pain. What are those little mountain-like things with the dark tops?

The map might not be too accurate - these are the attached ones.


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Right, but the question is more - would a dwarf ever be able to do such a research, would not his racial restrictions and preferences prohibit this, why create such an extraordinaire character? But that is not what bothers me.
Dwarves wanting to learn more about fiery mountains doesn't seem out of his racial restriction. Keep in mind that volcanoes tend to produce interesting minerals. Dwarves pride themselves on their knowledge and work on such things.

I don‘t agree wth you here. Individuals might do it, but general I think dwarves are defined (by Judy) that they prefer to stay underground. Only bachelors with no chance to get a wife are more adventurous. 


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I proposed to use the northern Nirmenith Mountains instead of the volcano, for that would solve a lot of problems. It is much more likely to find a Nirmenith Dwarf there than in the South.
Mountain-researcher? If it makes you happy, I will change it. Doesn't mean that much to me.

Nor necessarily a mountain researcher, but more one who accidentily came above ground because he had some task to fullfil. Why don‘t you keep your Bertand and add a line about him being special?

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I think it would fit to these dragons, if they hunt/mate in a much bigger area than they nest (the marked are on the map), I will have lightning storms in the Lands of Pain. Would be cool to have them there.
So remove Norong'Sorno, keep Lands of Pain?


No, did not mean to skip the volcano, I see that area sometimes as one.


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I did not say, that they will prey on aj‘nuvics, though this might happen as well. There is plenty of other prey there for them!
What other prey is here? Would I need to alter my description of diet?

Do me the honour and read my entry about it, Fauna is enough though ;) http://www.santharia.com/places/aj_nuvic_grounds.htm









Summary:
1) Grothar needs to be changed to another god: What god? --> done
2) Queprur needs to change changed: "Death"? --> done
3) Races: do we make the researcher one of mountains instead of volcanoes..? Change names? --> NO, keep him and add a half sentence to his name about him being special
4) Territory: Take out Norong'Sorno, keep Lands of Pain, perhaps add in Aj'Nuvic grounds (we might say that, for some reason, the drakes don't attack these creatures?) ---> No, just mention, that aj‘nuvics are to clever to be caught often. They are animals after all and there occurs death as well. There is plenty other prey as well
5) Diet: changes based on territory? --> I think it can stay, if there range is wide enough
6) Lightning:   --> solved




*this cha'ah did work too well, she is so strong again...  rolls down sleeves*

 heart heart heart
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #50 on: 08 January 2010, 23:51:45 »

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Rayne, I expected that you read and searched that stuff yourself - how else will you get more knowledge about our world? Maybe you should consider, not only to comment more, but read up stuff which was written while you were not here - or even unfinished submissions like that from Fox which contains already now important information ? (Apart that they are one of my favourite stuff, not only, because it is in my area). Therefore I set the links! Now Azhira did your work, and she knows more. I think the question about Trum-Baroll could have been answered by yourself as well. We do nothing else than reading the stuff and trying to interpret it.
Take from one who basically does research for a living: the hardest part about research is knowing where to go to find the information. I was talking to my mother about Santharia a few weeks ago. I told her how everyone helps one another with entries, that everyone helps direct and guide, because the site is so enormous that no one person knows it all, no one knows where all the information out. If you continue to the mindset that everyone should know where to go to get all the information, than you will make it harder for new members to get a start here. Don't chide me for not knowing where to go.

Also, regarding Trum-Barroll, I prefer to get multiple opinions concerning things. I've seen ways in which I felt some of my entries were used incorrectly, and feel such problems can be assuaged through multiple voices giving input. This entry is not really mine--it belongs to everyone. I want everyone to be happy with it. People are more willing to give their opinion when you ask for it. Don't chide me for trying to get some more points of view.

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I gave you those already. Ase‘bell
Are we still going with her being a Shendar? Or are we going to make her a dwarf?

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That‘s right, but you could have done it in your introduction, where you introduce your researcher.
I could, but at the same time, I do not feel an entry on lightning drakes would really be very concerned with the races of the people in the party of the research who is writing. This seems a little far removed from the topic.

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Well, why don‘t you then give any names at all? It is not important either, that it was a dwarf or how he was named. It is all about giving flavur to an entry, even if it distracts a bit from the main subject.
What would I replace the names with? "Person A, Person B, and Person C were walking up the mountain with me..." seems a little strange. The entry will make mention of names out of convenience if nothing else. You're right--the entry is just to give flavor to the entry. Names and races shouldn't matter, in my opinion.

The last could well have been the case ;)
You are dragging arguments out of the nowhere now. Why should people who live actually near that mountain and are endangered by it have not more interest in researching it than dwarves who don‘t like by definition to go above ground?


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The map might not be too accurate - these are the attached ones.
So the Lands of Pain are connected to the mountain range--are they volcanoes or no?


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I don‘t agree wth you here. Individuals might do it, but general I think dwarves are defined (by Judy) that they prefer to stay underground. Only bachelors with no chance to get a wife are more adventurous. 
Maybe this is the case with my researcher. He doesn't mention a wife. and Judith also defines dwarves as being close to and interested with the earth.


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Nor necessarily a mountain researcher, but more one who accidentily came above ground because he had some task to fullfil. Why don‘t you keep your Bertand and add a line about him being special?
A task like finding out more about the volcanoes/mountains? And are we staying with the idea that he's in a group of other individuals, not all of whom are dwarven?


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No, did not mean to skip the volcano, I see that area sometimes as one.
Talia, make up your mind! Is the area one or not? You have chided me for calling the area one, and now you say that YOU sometimes see the area as one.


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Do me the honour and read my entry about it, Fauna is enough though ;) http://www.santharia.com/places/aj_nuvic_grounds.htm
Ok. Nothing needs to change. I've read this entry before, when I was creating the drake. When I asked the question, it was more like, "Is there anything YOU would like me to change." I will try to be more direct in the future. I'm used to working in academia where this kind of language isn't commonly used.


Summary:
1) Grothar needs to be changed to another god: What god? --> done

2) Queprur needs to change changed: "Death"? --> done ["Death or Trum-Barol: how religious are these dwarves?]

3) Races: do we make the researcher one of mountains instead of volcanoes..? Change names? --> NO, keep him and add a half sentence to his name about him being special [I don't know if this is something we will be able to come to agreement about. He is, after all, a bachelor dwarf, of a race fond of mountains and the earth. I disagree with your characterization.]

4) Territory: Take out Norong'Sorno, keep Lands of Pain, perhaps add in Aj'Nuvic grounds (we might say that, for some reason, the drakes don't attack these creatures?) ---> No, just mention, that aj‘nuvics are to clever to be caught often. They are animals after all and there occurs death as well. There is plenty other prey as well. [This would have been the answer to the question posed above on diet]

5) Diet: changes based on territory? --> I think it can stay, if there range is wide enough [I think so, too.]

6) Lightning:   --> solved
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #51 on: 10 January 2010, 03:37:54 »

Are all queries regaring this resolved?
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« Reply #52 on: 10 January 2010, 03:46:30 »

Not quite, Deci. Talia and I have hit some snags. Perhaps you might be able to serve as a kind of tie-breaker?

We're of split opinions concerning the dwarven researcher. Talia believe that it is against the norm for a dwarf to study volcanoes and leave their underground homes in mountain. I believe it is a not (because volcanoes are similar to mountains and because bachelor dwarves may leave their homes for a time).

I would be willing to change volcano-researcher to mountain-researcher, but while Talia would like to mention that the dwarven researcher is an anomaly, I believe he is not and do not want to add such a detail because it isn't really related to the topic of the entry.

What do you think?

The other issues will hopefully be resolved soon. I'm trying to figure out what geographical features are included in the Nirmerth Mountain Range and which are not. I am also inquiring of Talia how religious these dwarves are (for whether to use Trum-Barrol or the personification Death instead of Queprur) as she knows more about them than I do.

After that, it should be ready.
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« Reply #53 on: 10 January 2010, 04:03:15 »

How common or uncommon a certain type of person is should not be important to the the overall passability of an entry. As long as it is feasible such a bachelor dwarf could exist, how unusual his pursuits and occupations are is irrelevant to the presentation of information about a Dragon.

As such, I think you are arguing about an minor detail that has little bearing to the actual beast. Do you not agree?

My lack of knowledge about Dwarves and their religious practices leaves me stumped in that sense though!

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« Reply #54 on: 10 January 2010, 09:58:03 »

I agree, Deci.

I have changed "Queprur" to "death." I still need information about how Talia characterizes the mountain range.
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« Reply #55 on: 10 January 2010, 11:50:09 »

My two sans...

I see nothing wrong with a dwarven volcano researcher. Not every member of a tribe must conform to the norm. Make him a bachelor and give him something to do. Or, if Talia likes, maybe the dwarf is just being a short term researcher for a period of years above ground and then he'll go back underground. He's one of those guys who had his fill of the surface world and eventually returns to his roots.  :P

For death, you would use Trum-Barrol. The dwarven religion entry clearly states that his is the "plane of existence" so to speak that dwarves go to upon death. Dwarves have a similar philosophy as the Kaaer regarding death in that they both believe in death as "sleeping" or becoming "one with the earth". The Kaaer say "stone sleep" with the earth brother.
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« Reply #56 on: 10 January 2010, 12:23:22 »

Trum-Barrol taking dominion over death is still a bit problematic because it adds a religiousness to everything. I'm not sure how religious the dwarves are. Saying "we will meet death on this mountain" sounds OK to me, and seems like a relatively neutral solution.
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« Reply #57 on: 11 January 2010, 00:30:37 »

I've got a cold, no thong serious, but annoying, so just a few sentences

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I told her how everyone helps one another with entries, that everyone helps direct and guide, because the site is so enormous that no one person knows it all, no one knows where all the information out. If you continue to the mindset that everyone should know where to go to get all the information, than you will make it harder for new members to get a start here. Don't chide me for not knowing where to go.

Rayne, as I realised, that there was something wrong (Grothar, Queprur), I searched in which of  Fox's two submissions religion was mentioned, saw a name of a foreign god and set the LINK to it, so you could have a look yourself - and ask Fox, if something was unclear. I did set the LINK to the dwarven belief, so you could have a look yourself. Azhira did nothing else than following my links. So you can't say, that I did not help you, I pointed you to where you could find the information.

I think death instead  Queprur is the best, if you want to use Trum-Baroll, discuss it with Azhira or ask Judy.

To the dwarves - leave it as it is, it is no use to spend so much time about an unimportant detail. I once again made the mistake to defend Judy's dwarves, where she might not be so strict with it anymore anyway. The major problem would be anyway the fact, that they were allowed into the territory at all. (Nobody is normally).

If you want to use the Nirmenith Northern Range, just see it as a kind of Himalaya or Southern Andes with the ai'nuvic grounds a high valley like the Alti Plano.

*waves*

*I need some air.. help..*
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« Reply #58 on: 11 January 2010, 00:32:28 »

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I've got a cold, no thong serious, but annoying, so just a few sentences

Er, perhaps wearing a thong in January is the reason you have a cold.... rolleyes
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« Reply #59 on: 11 January 2010, 00:55:00 »

Rayne, as I realised, that there was something wrong (Grothar, Queprur), I searched in which of  Fox's two submissions religion was mentioned, saw a name of a foreign god and set the LINK to it, so you could have a look yourself - and ask Fox, if something was unclear. I did set the LINK to the dwarven belief, so you could have a look yourself. Azhira did nothing else than following my links. So you can't say, that I did not help you, I pointed you to where you could find the information.
When Azhira posted the quote related to Arvans, I was about to the "People" section in the entry you sent me. I'm sorry, but reading takes time, particularly such a long entry. But I have been reading it, and I'm offended that you think I hadn't or wouldn't. And yes, you sent me the link to the dwarven entry--but some tribes are more religious that others, and there is no entry on these dwarves. My question was whether to change it to Trum-Barrol or death. THIS QUESTION IS NOT ANSWERED BY A LINK TO AN ENTRY. It's answered by getting people's opinion about it (since there is no entry). No one every answered this question, in fact, so I made my own decision.

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If you want to use the Nirmenith Northern Range, just see it as a kind of Himalaya or Southern Andes with the ai'nuvic grounds a high valley like the Alti Plano.
This isn't the issue. The issue is what is included in the Nirmenith range. But perhaps it doesn't matter and the territory can stay as-is?

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*I need some air.. help..*
::Focusing on the links in the air around Talia, Rayne makes a soft clear, clean zephyr pick up.::
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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