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Author Topic: Draconic Categorisation  (Read 20946 times)
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #15 on: 15 December 2009, 00:48:16 »

Patience Talia. :) That particular overview is incomplete. They are the Draconic High Goddess and God (Your Ava and Coor equivalent) for Dragons. I have lots of notes on them, but now isn't the time for me to be working on them as I need to finish this categorisation and the Overview as a whole.

It doesn't belong in a myth, as Dragons aren't mythical and giving a peek into their creation in their overview isn't a bad idea. ^.~ That particular overview has been giving my head a roundabout in how to present it with the "sentience" of the creatures. Trying to define sentience without using the word and applying to creatures other than humans is no easy task, but I am working on it. The Gods will help give me a base to work this over a little bit easier. :)

Quote
why should the dragons share their beliefs with us little folks?

That is very old mentality. You make the assumption Dragons are all "High and Mighty", which most will not necessarily be. This is only the categorisation, and so much will be explained in the actual Overview, which I haven't really started on because the categorisation is a project in and of itself at this time.

Oh, and to answer your question, they are fascinated by them. Just like the Children of Ava are fascinated by other things of the world. This is nothing different, just the from the viewpoint of yet another complex species.

There is still *A LOT* left to be done even withe overall Dragon Overview, so my work is far from finished on this.
« Last Edit: 15 December 2009, 00:53:25 by Kalína Mërénwèn » Logged

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #16 on: 15 December 2009, 00:55:26 »

No, I don't want to discourage you! 

Just wanted to point out, not to mention them as "fact" in an overview, but as belief.

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That is very old mentality. You make the assumption Dragons are all "High and Mighty", which most will not necessarily be.

Was so far in the Santharian context, or not?
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« Reply #17 on: 15 December 2009, 01:03:15 »

I have done research out to my ears on Santharian Dragons, and the biggest problem I had was the amount of inconsistency within them. There was no guiding line in their creation, and because of this, everyone has a different idea about them.

This is where I step in and create a solid definition for them, this way it isn't floating around and being pulling and twisted by different people just to make their particular creature or idea fit. The problem with Dragons, I am going to have to lay down the law then poke holes in the ancient entries. (Granted, most entries which mention Dragons do so vaguely.)

Azhira, Rayne, and I have had some thorough discussions about this problem in the compendium, and it hasn't exactly made doing this project any easier. I can build off ideas and try to make them all correlate together, but then I am making things impossible.


Thanks for your input, Talia! I don't want to appear ungrateful that you had dragged yourself to this mess of a place!

P.S. - Don't worry, not discouraged yet! Just have wanted to punch a few things here and there over this. Lol
« Last Edit: 15 December 2009, 01:12:13 by Kalína Mërénwèn » Logged

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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #18 on: 15 December 2009, 01:31:20 »

In order for this categorization project to succeed, Kalina will need to altar some old entries and change some of the original inconsistent visions from Compendium authors long gone. The problem is that the dragons were created by several people without a single guiding hand to oversee their development, placement and culture. I suppose Morcaanan started this, but never stayed to finish it.

So I hope all of us members can give Kali the support she needs to really organize these wondrous creatures that have for too long been scattered everywhere. So let's try to keep an open mind about this as we may have to change some (notice I said some and not all  ;)) of the age old perceptions we have concerning dragons.
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« Reply #19 on: 15 December 2009, 03:22:05 »

Whom did you give an answer, Azhira?

Kalina, I don't see a mess when looking at your entrance post, so, seems you have done already quite a good work, right ? :)

Note, this was the only "critic" I had! ;)

("We as developers do not know, if (the) gods exist and won't assume anything, can't proof their existence or not-existence")
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« Reply #20 on: 15 December 2009, 03:24:20 »

I did take your advice and I am working on changing the opening sentence. I think I have the overview basically complete this time, but it needs some little loving before I put it up here.
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« Reply #21 on: 16 December 2009, 16:42:23 »

*bumps for critique*

*glances about nervously before running off into the shadows*
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« Reply #22 on: 16 December 2009, 20:22:27 »

Some quick notes, Kalina, just random thoughts.


Quote
The Mythical Dragons
These Dragons are creatures of unimaginable power and knowledge, believed to have moulded and shaped the culture of their kin. Their deeds of good or evil are renowned throughout books and tales, yet the truth of their existence has been lost to the passing of time. Almost every mention of them portrays magic, wisdom, knowledge, and superiority over their kind, though this may not necessarily be true for all.


I would add a „it is said“ or something in the beginning as well, maybe even be a bit poetic:

These creatures out of dreams and imagination are.. (please find a better phrase)



Quote
The Great Dragons
Dragons are magnificent and enigmatic creatures of ancient power and profound wisdom. Their complex language and magical ascendancy baffles many who attempt to study them, as they have spent centuries building and perfecting their methodologies. They are respected by their lesser kin and all other races for their knowledge and abilities, having commanded armies of Drakes and other lesser races in past battles. The unity amongst the creatures is nearly unbreakable, despite the individual differences between many of them.

Here I would stress in the beginning, that they count to the sentient races! Maybe like this:
Dragons are magnificent and enigmatic creatures of ancient power and profound wisdom, believed by many to belong to the most noble race on Caelereth..

Somehow I miss a sentence about their not always good relations to the other races, or a word about the dragonstorm which killed most of them? (You don‘t get around that fact in history)



Quote
The Lesser Drakes
Unlike their ancient cousins, the Drakes are much more of a commonality in Santharia. They come in three varieties: Wyverns, Wyrms, or Drakes. Each retain some physical aspects their larger and more powerful counterparts, but they lack the speech, power, and literacy which give the Dragons ultimate superiority. The kinship they feel with the Dragons, is reflected in the willingness to do their bidding, rarely acting in defiance against their wishes.

And here a note, that they classify as beasts?


Looks good - do you plan to add a short description to each of your subcategories?
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« Reply #23 on: 17 December 2009, 00:06:09 »

I hadn't quite decided if there will be sub categories, yet.

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Somehow I miss a sentence about their not always good relations to the other races, or a word about the dragonstorm which killed most of them? (You don‘t get around that fact in history)

Okay, also keep in mind that because of the Dragon revamp, the amount of Dragons may not have been diminished as much as originally thought, and they would've been able to rebuild themselves. Secondly, this is a mini-overview, and the big one should be attached to the little one. The big one will go into depth on history and relations. The minis are meant for people to have a bit more insight on them as individuals.

Thanks a bunch, Talia. With the Dragon Overview, I think you fix the issue I had for two weeks.

I will make changes after breakfast....
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« Reply #24 on: 17 December 2009, 00:26:36 »

Kalina, even though I do not have expertise in the area of dragon categorization (and thus no critique) I wanted you to know I am very interested in how this all turns out.  As I read through the dragon entries for picture ideas it is apparant that your work here is needed. 

Aura + from me for tackling an organizational problem even though you may have more interesting things to do..
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« Reply #25 on: 17 December 2009, 00:31:51 »

Sorry, I didn't mean subcategory, but if each dragon would get a line of description, or would this then go in this huge description you are talking about.

It might be a problem to revive the dragon species as a whole again to more than a few. And relativise the dragonstorm.

Hmm, just looked at that entry

Quote
The city High Council gathered and it was in the end decided to call the help of the priests of Foiros, God of the Sun. And the god heard their prayers and at dusk that day the sun was seen for the last time that year. A dark blanket was folded over the lands of Vardýnn and the rest of the world, and a cold wind took control of the air. It was freezing now without sunwarmth, and neither human nor dragon could resist or ignore it. The dragons were forced to return home and they left, but the Voldarians were barely able to survive as well in the upcoming months of hardship.

There is nothing said, that they all died. But from somewhere I know it. (Katya story?) And it said, that all around Caelereth died due to the absence of the sun for one year. (Which as far as I remember, was seen as a developer's fact, therefore the Nybelamrians wanted to have it just a bit diminished, so that it would not be entirely dark,as dark as in Southern Sarvonia. It is in many entries mentioned)

Maybe you should discuss that in the forum in an extra thread - how many sentient dragons should be living in our time, and most important, in areas, where they actually are seen or meet people.
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« Reply #26 on: 17 December 2009, 00:46:36 »

Sorry, I didn't mean subcategory, but if each dragon would get a line of description, or would this then go in this huge description you are talking about.

It might be a problem to revive the dragon species as a whole again to more than a few. And relativise the dragonstorm.

Hmm, just looked at that entry

There is nothing said, that they all died. But from somewhere I know it. (Katya story?) And it said, that all around Caelereth died due to the absence of the sun for one year. (Which as far as I remember, was seen as a developer's fact, therefore the Nybelamrians wanted to have it just a bit diminished, so that it would not be entirely dark,as dark as in Southern Sarvonia. It is in many entries mentioned)

Maybe you should discuss that in the forum in an extra thread - how many sentient dragons should be living in our time, and most important, in areas, where they actually are seen or meet people.


You are right, Talia. I brought this up to Kalina once before and I think she is aware. Here is the entry part you are referring to:

Quote
The dragons were finally driven back by the mysterious Year of Darkness, a year where the Injèrá, the Caelerethian sun, descended below the world for a whole year, and many humans and dragons were killed alike in the bitter cold.

I would agree that is important to know how many dragons survived this Year of Darkness and how many are known today. I would think dragons would age very slowly and not reproduce so often.
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« Reply #27 on: 17 December 2009, 01:41:12 »

Yep! The year of darkness was brought up and I am aware. Yet since this was just the categorisation and not the main overview or history (I may have a separate entry explaining all of this beyond the overview), there isn't a need for it to mentioned in the mini-overviews when there is a time and place for the rest. :)

The actual dragons shouldn't necessarily be mentioned in the overviews. The only reason they are listed right now, is so the entries can be moved around in the compendium in accordance with the updates being made. I can write a small description for each and every dragon, but since a lot of them need updates and complete rewrites, this may be more of project than expected. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible with these guys, because it would be quite easy to make this more than it needs to be.

^.~

Thanks for the comments, guys :D

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« Reply #28 on: 17 December 2009, 15:35:45 »

My wording changes are in blue. I am feeling *really* good about the mini-overviews at this point!

Thanks for your aid, guys. :D
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« Reply #29 on: 19 December 2009, 12:31:11 »

Ok - All the creatures have been placed into their respected categories. After a discussion with Morc through emails, I have decided to create a 5th category for the Nethers. I haven't written up an overview for it yet, but this also depends on the entries and any updates which may come from this.

The actual overview for them, I will put in the Draconic Overview, which is currently in the works.

*is pleased to have completed this task at last*
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