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Author Topic: Draconic Categorisation  (Read 20951 times)
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« on: 03 December 2009, 19:27:53 »

Ok - I cleaned this up drastically, mostly with the excess information which didn't really belong here. If you are looking for the 'full' list I had previously, it is here for my future notes once I get to them.



The Mythical (Legendary) Dragons
It is written in ancient passages and spoken of in legends, that there are Dragons of unimaginable power and knowledge, believed to have moulded and shaped the culture of their kin. Their deeds of good or evil are renowned throughout the races, yet the truth of their existence has been lost to the passing of time but not forgotten. Almost every mention of them, be it by word of mouth or written on ancient scrolls, portrays magic, wisdom, knowledge, and superiority over their kind, though this may not necessarily be true for all.


Legendary Wyrms

The Dragons
Dragons are magnificent and enigmatic creatures of ancient power and profound wisdom, deemed by many to belong to the most noble race in Caelereth. Their complex language and magical ascendancy baffles many who attempt to study them, as they have spent centuries building and perfecting their methodologies. They are respected by their lesser kin and all other races for their knowledge and abilities, having commanded armies of Drakes and other lesser races in past battles. The unity amongst the creatures is nearly unbreakable, despite the individual differences between many of them.


Dragons

Wyrms

The Drakes
Unlike their ancient cousins, Drakes are much more of a commonality in Santharia and are considered to be beasts in the Draconic family. They come in three varieties: Wyverns, Wyrms, or Drakes. Each retain some physical aspects their larger and more powerful counterparts, but they lack the speech, power, and literacy which give the Dragons ultimate superiority. The kinship they feel with the Dragons, is reflected in the willingness to do their bidding, rarely acting in defiance against their wishes.

Drakes

Worms

The Netherdrakes
Whispered legends speak of two varieties of drakes whose origins are believed to be within the Netherworld. The Netherwyrm is a creature whose very existence has long been a subject of debate. What is known of the Netherworld is little, but some dark elven myths claim that creatures the likes of a dragon can be summoned from the dark world of Coor, and likely the very nature of these Netherwyrms is more akin to demonic than actual dragonkind. The Dravilonia is another beast of the Netherworld, but smaller, and is said to have aided the dark folk during the Third Sarvonian War. These drakes were used as mounts for the dark armies and were summoned by powerful clerics of Coor. Like many other creatures said to call the Netherworld their home, the Netherdrakes are not defined by actual fact, but by myth, and their true existence is still debated by scholars.


The Dracoids
Dracoids are creatures which have drake-like qualities, but do not have any true Draconic blood flowing in their veins. Despite this, many races still attribute them as being descendants of the greater beasts. There are many different varieties scattered throughout the world. People find them intriguing and often attempt to domesticate them in hopes of owning, what many seem to believe, a direct yet small cousin of the Dragons.

« Last Edit: 23 March 2010, 11:59:34 by Kalína Dalá'isyrás » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 04 December 2009, 18:40:10 »

Ready for opinions, and hope I didn't botch anything too terribly. *hides behind her piles of notes*
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« Reply #2 on: 04 December 2009, 19:57:37 »

*cries*

Quote
Falserock Lizard - Needs a spellcheck

How many spellchecks do I need to find all errors??

Don't worry, I'l give it in your hands, then I'm happy again :)

The last four - why not make up a category "Dragons with special abilities/characteristics, or what ever might fit to get all under the heading.

Are all the dragons in the dragon category so sentient and wise as you described them? Then we do have many. Or have they all died in the dragon storm?

Please add a drake: The Norrak, though I do not have more than the overview.

(Norong'sorno drake= Norrak)

It lives on the slopes of the Norong'sorno, say, five peds long, pitch black,  a sly and cankered beast, trying to kill travellers (if there are any) , just because they are there. They like to bath in saline little ponds...

I wonder, in an overview, could there be mentioned drakes without entry, but with a future in mind?

And yes, there are already more drakes in the Rahaz-Dath as I thought!


The categorisation looks fine to me, but I have spent not much thoughts about it, so there might be holes. Question: Do we need to write up/list  all those dragons without entry?
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« Reply #3 on: 04 December 2009, 22:42:35 »

Hmmm..... wonderin if that unentried black dragon entry could be reserved as a Doom Dragon?  Black dragon is sooo pedestrian. :D
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« Reply #4 on: 05 December 2009, 02:20:20 »

Nice job here, Kali!  clap

Goodness! We have more dragon varieties than we do canines! And, where did those others come from? Black, Copper, Green, Purple? Do we need so many?

I'll say it again...I personally think the Hydragon should be a monster and not classified as a Drake. But ask Alysse about that one. Are we classifying any "lizard or snake" beast as a drake/dragon? By that logic, we can also call the Tsor-Shota a drake as well? My thought is that have a specific set of classifications for dragon/drake. Others can be monsters. My spine wyrm, for example, is not a drake species. Its a mutated snake!  shocked

Maybe a Nybelmar dev has an opinion on the Lindorm as the original author is long gone I think.

I wish I could revise that Netherwyrm, as I do not like how it is described in the entry (all my love to Morc, so not meaning to offend!) Thus is why I haven't used them in any of my Osthemangar related entries. And, I think it should be Mythical.

Also, the Drakona is a mythical little dragon.
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« Reply #5 on: 05 December 2009, 03:58:18 »

*cries*

How many spellchecks do I need to find all errors??

I merely said those things just in case, not saying that it is necessarily needed as I skimmed over many of Dracoids as they were properly classified in a general respect.

The last four - why not make up a category "Dragons with special abilities/characteristics, or what ever might fit to get all under the heading.

Because I don't really see them being sentient, so they wouldn't be dragons. A couple of them would work under mythical, but I would rather try and ask the authors before categorising them as I don't quite understand the entries all together.

Are all the dragons in the dragon category so sentient and wise as you described them? Then we do have many. Or have they all died in the dragon storm?

As with any race, each individual will vary to a certain degree, and some are definitely more common than others. The purpose of the recategorisation was to bring sentient dragons 'back from the dead' so to speak. Santharia deserves to still have such creatures in existence and possibly within the reach of those who are determined enough to find them - but not common enough they are simply walking around in populated areas.

Please add a drake: The Norrak, though I do not have more than the overview.

(Norong'sorno drake= Norrak)

It lives on the slopes of the Norong'sorno, say, five peds long, pitch black,  a sly and cankered beast, trying to kill travellers (if there are any) , just because they are there. They like to bath in saline little ponds...

Done done.

I wonder, in an overview, could there be mentioned drakes without entry, but with a future in mind?

Absolutely! If anyone has an idea for a Drake, I will more than happily add it to the list. The only reason I had not added any was because they are more bestial and monster than the Dragons, who are generally more sophisticated in nature.

And yes, there are already more drakes in the Rahaz-Dath as I thought!


The categorisation looks fine to me, but I have spent not much thoughts about it, so there might be holes. Question: Do we need to write up/list  all those dragons without entry?

The reason I listed Dragons without entries is because I do want to restrict them a lot more than the Drakes. They are sentient beings and having *too* many of them can be chaotic. I don't want to put such restrictions on Drakes however, as the possibilities for them are really endless when a person's imagination comes into play.



Hmmm..... wonderin if that unentried black dragon entry could be reserved as a Doom Dragon?  Black dragon is sooo pedestrian. :D

They can all have alternate names, but for categorisations sake, I wanted to list them as such. You have your basic Chromatic and Elemental Dragons on the list. I doubt the list of Dragons will grow much beyond what it is right now, simply because I want to keep them restricted because of their sentient nature.



Nice job here, Kali!  clap

Thanks. I wanted to get it up for opinions, even though it is still somewhat incomplete. Glad it didn't flop! :D


Goodness! We have more dragon varieties than we do canines! And, where did those others come from? Black, Copper, Green, Purple? Do we need so many?

They came from my desire to have entries for them. I expanded the Chromatic Dragon list, and the Elemental Dragon list. The reason I listed so many without entries was to expand the list of Dragons, but make it so it is also restricted to those listed. I haven't gone through all the Dragons mentioned in overviews yet, but some of those may qualify as mythical and be even more restricted than the Dragons. Drakes didn't have any additional listed because I wanted to keep it open for just about any sort of ideas.

I'll say it again...(1)I personally think the Hydragon should be a monster and not classified as a Drake. But ask Alysse about that one. (2)Are we classifying any "lizard or snake" beast as a drake/dragon? By that logic, we can also call the Tsor-Shota a drake as well? My thought is that have a specific set of classifications for dragon/drake. Others can be monsters. My spine wyrm, for example, is not a drake species. Its a mutated snake!  shocked

This is true. 1) I would leave it up to the author (if possible) as to where they would like it to be classified. Sometimes their ideas for the creatures aren't always as evident in the entries as we think. 2) Not necessarily. I merely took the ones which were under "Dragons" in the Comp. I have problems with 'snake-like' creatures often when trying to categorisation. I believe, in mythology, wyrms had wings, but not necessarily any other appendages. I still consider Drakes to be fairly intelligent, but not nearly as much as your Dragons. They are indeed more monster than Dragon, but their appearance is more closely related to the larger cousins than anything else related to them.

Basically, I would honestly leave it up to the author on where they would prefer to have it categorised, as they would have a clearer idea than we would more than likely.

Maybe a Nybelmar dev has an opinion on the Lindorm as the original author is long gone I think.

I hope so, as I don't see it being a sentient being, but basically a large and powerful snake. I know it is based off the Basilisk, both from D&D, but also Harry Potter. In this case, it would be a serpent and nothing draconic. 

I wish I could revise that Netherwyrm, as I do not like how it is described in the entry (all my love to Morc, so not meaning to offend!) Thus is why I haven't used them in any of my Osthemangar related entries. And, I think it should be Mythical.

I really wasn't sure what to do with it, especially since it is a summoned creature and not one which was created by Avá. (Ooooo a peek into my ideas). If you want, feel free to email Morc and discuss it, as I am sure he would love to work with you on it.

Also, the Drakona is a mythical little dragon.

Cool - thanks!



Thanks you guys! Gave me a bit more to work on with this, and eliminated some of my initial fears. I will see what I can get done over the next day or so on this :D

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« Reply #6 on: 05 December 2009, 05:09:39 »

Actually, it will prolly be a Doom Drake, as I don't want to deal with the whole sentient part.
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« Reply #7 on: 05 December 2009, 05:15:21 »

I don't know, if Ishilir based the Lindorm  (lindworm!) on D&D, it is such an old mythical creature, very well known in Northern Europe also. There is no need to do so.

And:  It lives on Cyhalloi, not in Nybelmar. Kalina, be careful! We don't want the Nybelmarian conquer Cyllahoi, we would be encirceled! How terrible!

..> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindworm

Why don't you just make a category "uncategorisised"? ;)

Just fond a nice one here
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« Reply #8 on: 05 December 2009, 07:24:30 »

Ah, I didn't read the entry careful enough. You are right, it is more of the Basilisk from mythology and not purely serpent. In this case, it is possible to put it in the Mythical for now, and possibly play with it later.

Thanks for the info, Talia!

@Alt: I don't blame ya lol
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« Reply #9 on: 05 December 2009, 18:05:15 »

Having a look at your overviews! :)

The Mythical Dragons
These Dragons are creatures of unimaginable power and knowledge, believed to have molded and shaped the culture of their kin. Their deeds of good or evil are renowned throughout the books and tales, yet the truth of their existence has been lost to the passing of time. Almost every mention of them portrays magic, sentience, and superiority over all their kind, though this may not necessarily be true. <- this last clause (the blue bit) seems clumsy to me.  I'm not sure you need it, because you've just said in the last sentence that they're mythical.  It'd also be cool to say something about their situation now; are there rumours of some still living in secluded and unreachable places, or do the stories all put them way back in the past?

The Dragons
Creatures of sentience and power, they dominate their lesser kin in all aspects of intelligence, power, and knowledge. Having been around since the creation of the Elves, they have watched the world change through time. Reaching ages of near immortality, they are considered to be one of the wisest and most respected races. Their race has all the aspects which makes the Children of Avá, who they are: Religion, Language, and Culture. With this power, they have the ability to command their lesser kin as desired, but find it to be trivial work unless absolutely necessary. The only suggestion I can think of here is to maybe tell us something about how rare they are?  What sort of territory they might inhabit?  Just to give the readers an idea that they're not walking around the streets in the middle of all the other races :P

The Drakes
Unlike their sentient cousins, the Drakes are much more of a commonality in Caelereth and are considered to be 'savages'. <-- maybe "beasts"? Savages sounds to me like human "savages" i.e. tribal culture, not-really-that-savage?  But that could be because I did a load of stuff on "the noble savage" in french last year. They come in a variety of types: Wyverns, Wyrms, or Drakes. Each retain aspects of their larger and more powerful counterparts, but they lack the intelligence, power, and culture which give the Dragons superiority.

The Dracoids
Dracoids are animals which have drake-like qualities, but are not necessarily direct descendants of the draconian line. There are a great many scattered throughout the world in hard to reach places, since they are typically small and not always easy to find or catch, though some have been able to be domesticated to a degree. <-- Maybe "though some have been more or less tamed in certain regions" or something?  Just thought the last clause sounded a bit off, but it's a stylistic thing so ignore if you don't agree!

Hope that helps a little - it's looking great and I really can't wait to have some proper dragons around (in suitably secluded places of course).  I know it sounds weird but they really feel properly fantasy to me, unlike anything else.  Plus it's nice to have a sentient race that aren't mammals and don't walk on two legs with two arms!
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« Reply #10 on: 06 December 2009, 12:45:28 »

I am not going to update any dragon entry, especially the Netherwyrm. I'll end up re-writing the entire thing and I don't need anymore controversy.  :P I do recommend that it be mythological. If I were to cross-reference the Netherwyrm, I would say that one has not believed to have been seen since the days of the Battle of Osthemangar in 5000 b.S. By now, the creature has long passed into myth. There is not even rumors of one in the Mists or the Shadespell as far as I am concerned.
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« Reply #11 on: 06 December 2009, 20:01:26 »

Quote
but are not necessarily direct descendants of the draconian line.

Sounds a bit evolutionary to me.. maybe "direct members of the draconian family"?
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« Reply #12 on: 06 December 2009, 22:17:08 »

With Mira on this point,
Perhaps
"Not trully draconic in nature" I mean, we can do looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, flaps like a duck but if one creature is a giant intelligent scaly monster, another is a rather large scaly monster and the third is feathered, tiny, or downright stupid, it makes sense not to group them together.
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« Reply #13 on: 12 December 2009, 11:30:40 »

After a long, helpful, and entertaining discussion in IRC about "sentience", I am working on revising the Dragon, Drake, and Dracoid overviews almost completely! Should be up in the next couple of days!

All were 'rough drafts' for me to work off of, as this really distant from completion - but not too far to be discouraging! :D
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« Reply #14 on: 14 December 2009, 21:08:33 »

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Children of Ser'asha's and Enal'ther's passionate whispers, Dragons are magnificent and enigmatic creatures of ancient power and profound wisdom.

Kali, I don't think, that this fits in an overview, as it is myth. You need to say much more about it  - elsewhere - who are these, who say , that these are gods - the elves/humans, or the dragons themselves? And how would we know about this - why should the dragons share their beliefs with us little folks?
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