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Author Topic: Independent Scholar's View on Enchantments  (Read 7792 times)
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« on: 07 December 2009, 07:08:16 »

Take two, as a way to keep myself from writing even more for the Ximax Academy entry.


Quote
Rough draft of an entry on opinion of what enchantments are, how they are, and how they function by one whose issues and concerns have been exiled by the more powerful voices of her niche.


ENCHANTMENTS

Overview:
To enchant is to change the nature of a cár’áll such that the cár’áll is endowed with a new balance, yielding a different quality or activity than its original form. Enchantments are most often performed by Xeuá and Ecuá magi who, through their manipulation and understanding of links, are able to produce a permanent or semi-permanent balance within a given cár’áll. Enchanting requires both the alteration of links inside and outside the cár’áll (either from Ahm to Soór or Soór to Ahm) and the manipulation of meta-states (see below) While the physical shape of the object itself will often stay the same, the cár’áll will have a new balance that affects the natural qualities of the object.


Meta-states:
Xeuá refers to the connection between ounía “the great elemental force that holds everything together.” These links are always either Ahm or Soór, either listening or speaking, passive or active. A link can change either very quickly between these two states, or very slowly. In most cases, the states of being for which objects or people are identifiable—for example, being light in weight—often represent the most lasting connections. Others, which change fairly often—moods, in some case—represent more transient states of being.

The meta-state describes how quickly a link shifts between ahm (passive) and soor (active), or the permanence or impermanence of the connection type (ahm or soor). A meta-state can either be xeuán (permanent) or ecuán (impermanent; transient). In simple Tharian, a link’s meta-state signifies whether the current state of a link is stable or prone to change. For example, an ahm link with a ecuán (transient) meta-state is a passive link that is likely to shift into a soór (active) state. An ahm link with a xeuán (permanent) meta-state is a passive link that will not easily become active. A soór link with an ecuán (transient) meta-state is an active link that easily “broken” (turned to ahm). A soór link with a xeuán (permanent) meta-state is an active link that is likely to stay active.


Schools
Elemental magi are able to create enchantments, as well, but these are often only achievable in advanced levels. In such spells, the magi are able to extend a cár’áll (usually his own, as it is this cár’áll that he has most control over) and connect it to another cár’áll. The part of his cár’áll he brings to the object is thus temporarily connected to the cár’áll, giving it a new balance, and thus changing its qualities. This connection, in lower-levels, does not often endure for very long. Only through sensitivity to and alteration of the xeuán and ecuán meta-states of the type of connection itself can a magi determine the longevity of the connection. This type of sensitivity is not developed by elemental magi until fairly late in their learning. However, once the sensitivity is fully-developed, elemental magi can achieve enchantments in their respective element. These enchantments are just as powerful as Xeuá and Ecuá magi’s.

Though Elemental magi are able to create enchantments, Xeuá and Ecuá magi are more equipped to create enchantments in all elements that can last forever. Enchantments are generally taught at Ximax to Ecuá and Xeuá magi relatively early in their studies, and will start out with very rudimentary and easy enchantments as they develop their sensitivity to meta-states. For Elemental magi, enchantments aren’t generally even attempted until students reach advanced levels.

While all magi can create enchantments, Ecuá and Xeuá magi are generally considered the most adept at doing enchantments of all types. Elemental magi, while extremely skilled at creating enchantments related to their personal element, are unable to create enchantments related to other elements. While there are cases of “opposite-elemental enchantments” (for example, an Earth mage enchanting something to be “light” through lessening the effect of Earth), these are usually ineffective due to the shifting nature of links within the cár’áll.

In all schools, enchantments can decay away or break: in time the xeuán and ecuán meta-states of the Ahm or Soór links may wear, thus changing the nature of the links out of Soór into Ahm, or vice versa.


Process
ecause Xeuá and Ecuá magi are trained in the nature and properties of links, they do not often require as many reagents as Elemental magi, but still rather an extremely deep concentration and a huge amount of patience. It is reasonable to assume that the length the enchantment sustains itself is directly affected by the time spent in creating it, and those enchantments in which magi put the greatest time and effort will last a fair amount longer—sometimes, it is assumed, forever if not broken by some outside force.

The length taken to cast the enchantment is dependent on how far removed the desired quality (the quality of the enchantment) is to the nature of the object being enchanted. To increase the hardness of a boulder, to use an obvious example, would be far easier to do than enchanting it with lightness, since it is the nature of a boulder to be hard, to some degree or another, but it is not in its nature to be light—or soft, or bright. To endow a boulder with the property of brightness, a quality of fire, would take a substantial amount of time. The process most Xeuá and Ecuá magi go through to cast these spells can be widely different. However, when performing an enchantment—for example, making a stone glow—most magi use the following two-part procedure:

First, the cár’áll itself must be manipulated. A mage should use either a spell or the environment, or both, to manipulate it. In the case of making a stone glow, it is often helpful to elicit properties needed for the enchantment by changing the environment, and so many magi might begin by warming the stone in a fire (as warmth is also a property associated with fire). With fire ounía made soór (or, as an Ecuá mage may conceive of it, the water ounía made ahm) within the cár’áll links would need only minimal alteration to bring about the property of brightness. In other words, once the stone has some of the fire links turned soór, the properties of the fire ounía and other links between the ounía will be less difficult to manipulate. Therefore, while this initial step is not needed—magi can locate the ounía themselves and turn the links from ahm to soór or soór to ahm—it often helps to save much-needed willpower and concentration. By altering the connections (through spell and/or environment), the mage has actually manipulated the cár’áll into an unnatural state: a stone, apart from environmental factors, would not glow. These actions do not themselves constitute an enchantment, but rather a spell. The cár’áll, when allowed to, will seek to return to its natural state.

Second, when a mage achieves the cár’áll in its proper state for the enchantment, he or she must then manipulate the meta-state, the xeuán or ecuán meta-state of the Ahm or Soor link. Because brightness is not the natural state of a stone, this connection will be breaking (ecuá). Either the ahm state of the connection of water ounía (for Ecuá magi) or the soór state of the connection of fire ounía (For Xeuá and Elemental magi) will need to be made permanent: the breaking (ecuán) meta-state of the new ahm or soór link will need to be made connected (xeuán). This is the most difficult part of the enchantment process, because it involves amazing sensitivity and concentration. It takes many, many years to develop the ability, not just to see these underlying states, but to develop the willpower to manipulate them.

Levels:
Enchantments are very advanced spells. Enchantments require sensitivity to the nature of elements or links that most other spells do not, and this sensitivity calls for the utmost concentration and skill. A non-enchantment spell changes the qualities present in the cár’áll for a limited amount of time through manipulation of the links either directly or indirectly. While the links may change, however, the meta-state of those links as either xeuán (permanent) or ecuán (transient) remain the same, and determine how long a spell’s effect will last. One can build a sandcastle using water to shape the structure, but in time, but this is only a temporary manipulation of the sand: once the water dries, the sand will return to its original, formless state. Enchantments change cár’áll in a more meaningful and lasting way. It would be like taking the same sandcastle and using cement instead of water.

articularly in cursory, clumsy, or unsophisticated enchantments, the meta-states may wear away, and the links will return to their natural states. The xeuá meta-state will shift to the ecuán one, and following this the soór will turn to ahm or vice versa, and will cause the enchantment to break. The stone would shed the artificial property of light molded from its cár’áll.

In the case of more advanced spells, a more complicated use of links is used, and the two-step procedure may increase to three or four or more. These are enchantments are available only to the most skilled and powerful Ecuá, Xeuá, or Elemental magi. It is a delicate process, and those who are skilled can manipulate the links in ways to time the enchantment. By allowing some of the meta-states to remain ecuán, an enchantment may deteriorate faster or slower.

Those enchantments requiring certain states of being to be initiated by certain circumstances (a glowing stone growing brighter by the approach of a certain individual, for example) are reserved for only the most advanced magi—archmagi and their peers. The magi may have to weave an intricate “web” of links, including one between the target (he or she will make the initiator of the enchantment) and the object. Generally this link remains ahm with an ecuán meta-state until approach.

As the individual approaches the enchanted item, the ahm link will slowly become soór and will stay soór as the person is near (a natural quality for two items in close contact), and as it does, it will set off a chain reaction, turning to soór the other links within the object (i.e. the stone), thus causing it to trigger the appropriate effect (glowing). The meta-states of these other links would be connected with the meta-state of the link between the object and the individual, such that the meta-state of the individual-object connection would be maintained in the quality-object connection.

Taintings:
aintings are a type of enchantment created by an environment and not necessarily by a mage. All cár’allía change based on environment: in the Ráhaz'Dáth Desert, the environment may cause ones physical body to become warmer, for example, while the appearance of the Aj'Nuvic Grounds may make one feel comfortable and at ease. All environments have the ability to alter cár’allía in multiple ways, though generally only the physical manipulations are consistent from cár’áll or cár’áll. Spiritual and mental manipulations are generally influenced more by interpersonal interaction

In the case of taintings, though, the changes become more permanent and usually have more prominent spiritual alterations. For example, in the Mists of Osthemangar, those who enter may encounter strange alterations to their cár’áll, causing hallucinations (manipulation of wind ounía), or ferver (manipulation of fire ounía), or distractions (manipulation of water ounía) or a number of other mental effects. Places like the Mists of Osthemangar are also powerful enough to drastically change physical features. Exactly how this is done remains unknown, though one theory is that it both adds to and extracts portions of the cár’áll itself, permanently changing links to ahm and causing this links to gain an xeuán meta-state. In the case of the Mists, this often involves the earth ounía being completely extracted and the properties of transparency (wind) turning soór, and then that property of soór gaining the xeuán meta-state, making the change permanent. These are often states that cannot be reversed.

The Mists of Osthemangar are thus curious in that they alter the meta-states of the links themselves. Therefore, while they may cause the feature of distraction to become more prominent by turning the link soór, once this link has been made soór, the environment will begin to change the meta-state of the link from ecuán to xeuán.

The alternation of meta-states of links is not something which most environments can do. Only exceptional environments can manipulate meta-states in this way, and these are immensely dangerous. Because most of these tainting environments change meta-states relatively slowly (over a few days or weeks as opposed to a few hours), if an individual who finds herself in an environment in which she might suffer tainting, she should leave that area as quickly as possible, lest she suffer negative and irreversible alterations to, not only the links within her cár’áll, but the meta-states of those links.
« Last Edit: 08 August 2010, 23:01:36 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #1 on: 07 December 2009, 11:43:24 »

Fascinating!  :)

I was hoping something like this would come up again.

Is it possible for other means to enchant something? Perhaps if an object were "tainted" by the magical energy of a specific place. The links could be affected just by being present in the area and change its structure. For example, my Mists region is just such a place that is tainted by the Netherworld (it is believed) and corrupts the minds and souls of those who dwell in it. The Mists twists both physical and mental states of living beings. Can such a place affect something that gives it a tainted enchantment?
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No, I would not want to live in a world without dragons, as I would not want to live in a world without magic, for that is a world without mystery, and that is a world without faith. And that, I fear, for any reasoning, conscious being, would be the cruelest trick of all.
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« Reply #2 on: 07 December 2009, 11:50:36 »

Fascinating!  :)

I was hoping something like this would come up again.

Is it possible for other means to enchant something? Perhaps if an object were "tainted" by the magical energy of a specific place. The links could be affected just by being present in the area and change its structure. For example, my Mists region is just such a place that is tainted by the Netherworld (it is believed) and corrupts the minds and souls of those who dwell in it. The Mists twists both physical and mental states of living beings. Can such a place affect something that gives it a tainted enchantment?

Nice point!

I didn't even think of this... Perhaps we might view "Taintings" as an alteration of car'all created through an environment or unknown source. You may have to explain more of this to me, though. How does it corrupt the mind and souls? If someone wanders into the Mists and comes out again, are they still affected by their time in the Mists? Do twisted physical and mental states persist even once outside of the Mists, or do they fade away? How does it twist physical states? Do people become lighter/heavier, colder/hotter, or do they suffer more extensive physical deformation? I would be very interested in explaining the difference and similarities between enchantments and "taintings."
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #3 on: 07 December 2009, 12:18:58 »

Oh I love talking about my special place!  grin

*clears throat*

The Mists region is a large area tainted with what is believed to a Netherworld presence. Without quoting the entry, in short, the Mists are from the Netherworld and have spread and corrupted a large area of Caelereth. The Mists are considered a magical place that taints both physical and mental aspects of living and non-living things.

Valan's Gibbering Madness malady is one example of a mental affliction. Prolonged presence in the Mists can give an otherwise sane person what folklore would call a spiritual malady. Madness, paranoia, hallucinations etc can occur. Some maladies are permanent, but that would typically be if the person stayed in the Mists for a long time - say several days or longer. Short periods of time in the Mists can run an adventurer the risk of short-term maladies such as hallucinations and the feeling of extreme despair, hopelessness and fear. Once out of the Mists, these feelings pass. Its as if the Mists affect and taint the spiritual car'all. Those who die in the Mists almost certainly have their own spirits (fires of life) affected and can become wraiths or mystrans.

Physical afflictions are seen all over the Mists region. Trees, water, the soil etc are affected. Living beings such as the Ghostling brownies, Ghun'Morta'Oc, Exorrak'lagdan, Mist whelp monkey, spine wyrm, etc are all examples of mutated and corrupted flesh. Of course, those examples are some who live in and around the Mists and never leave so they "evolved" into something entirely different. A human would likely first suffer spiritual affliction before succumbing to physical mutation. Hair might begin to fall out, muscles decay, vision declines, etc.

The Mists Hunters have developed a way to protect themselves from the affects of the Mists by using divine magic. Their to'avatars are imbued with Durgho's blessing that shields them from such mutations. (still a concept work in progress).

Now for other sort of taintings, perhaps the Mists corrupts the car'all of, say a sword, by making it black in color or by giving the blade a toxic touch. Maybe certain items with an abundance of earth ounia change to more water ounia and "melt" in the Mists. Or maybe items develop a more abundance of wind ounia and become like smoke, rendering them ineffective. Other tainted enchantments could be the water ounia of an axe is changed making it like ice or at least the blade becomes extremely cold. 

In short, yes, tainted enchantments should be possible under the right conditions in certain magical areas. I am sure there are other places of similar magic energy, but the Mists is certainly a place that would affect the car'all of pretty much anything inside it. 
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No, I would not want to live in a world without dragons, as I would not want to live in a world without magic, for that is a world without mystery, and that is a world without faith. And that, I fear, for any reasoning, conscious being, would be the cruelest trick of all.
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« Reply #4 on: 07 December 2009, 13:00:40 »

I added a Taintings section. Let me know what you think and if this is consistent with the effects of the Mists.
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #5 on: 08 December 2009, 01:00:57 »

Yup, that looks great, Rayne! That was exactly the kind of influence I intended for the Mists but lacked the ability to explain it in "Magic Scholarese"  ;)

Will this entry be integrated at some point as official?
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No, I would not want to live in a world without dragons, as I would not want to live in a world without magic, for that is a world without mystery, and that is a world without faith. And that, I fear, for any reasoning, conscious being, would be the cruelest trick of all.
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« Reply #6 on: 08 December 2009, 01:04:59 »

Will this entry be integrated at some point as official?
I certainly hope so! I will have to see if I can find some more people to look at it. I hope and pray Arti will come on a white horse to save the entry before it gets lost in the deep, dark abyss of forgotten entries, but we'll see.
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #7 on: 08 December 2009, 03:20:41 »

Good to see an explanation for Enchantments! This has been something needed for quite some time.

After our talk on IRC and with the understanding of how the meta-states apply now, I'm glad to have them. They offer the 'trigger effect' that we've needed for Ximaxian magic, as it's always been a problem that we've had no way for a spell to react without the caster's direct interference. This provides an explanation.

I only have a few comments for this since most of it is good as is.


1) You say that elemental magi connect another car'all to the target car'all to make the change in balance. This isn't necessarily needed. Sphere III magi are able to also take ounia out of the target car'all and then re-implement them in a new pattern, thus changing the balance solely with the target car'all and without outside aid. So I would recommend mentioning this as well. This would allow elemental magi to create enchantments that don't necessarily need the presence of the supporting car'all.

2) You say later that Xeua and Ecua magi do not require as many reagents as Elemental magi. This comparison isn't really necessary, because Elemental magi don't require reagents either, and we've essentially defined Ximaxian magic as 'reagent-less', with reagents only being concentration aids and nothing more.

However, for enchantments that require connections between multiple car'allia, I would think both Xeua/Ecua and Elemental magi would have an equal need for reagents for enchanting. Being able to create links between elements does not increase the availability of a certain quantity of element that might be lacking in the target, so certain enchantments that are far removed from the desired quality would need an outside source, even if the mage is a Xeua one.

3) You mention level 4 Xeua magi. I wasn't aware that Xeua/Ecua magi had the same leveling scheme as elemental ones, considering that most Ximaxian Xeua/Ecua magi become Xeua/Ecua only after they've essentially completed their elemental field. Of course they could 're-start' under a new Xeua leveling scheme, but I'm not sure if that needs as many levels as the elemental one.

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« Reply #8 on: 08 December 2009, 05:05:57 »

No time to read it in detail - just skimmed through it very quickly.

Looks good to me :)

A few comments

Quote
First, the cár’áll itself must be manipulated. In the cast of making a stone glow, it is often helpful to elicit properties needed for the enchantment by changing the environment, and so many magi might begin by warming the stone in a fire (as warmth is also a property associated with fire). With fire ounía made soór (or, as an Ecuá mage may conceive of it, the water ounía made ahm) within the cár’áll links would need only minimal alteration to bring about the property of brightness. While this initial step is not needed—magi can locate the ounía themselves and turn the links from ahm to soór or soór to ahm—it often helps to save much-needed willpower and concentration. By altering the connections like this, the mage has actually manipulated the cár’áll into an unnatural state: a stone, apart from environmental factors, would not glow. These actions do not themselves constitute an enchantment, but rather a spell. The cár’áll, when allowed to, will seek to return to its natural state.

I think you are compounding two distinct issues here:
1. Making the carall of an object more conducive to the spell (ie to the required manipulation). This is analogous to "enchancing/counter measures". Just like a target ingesting a lot of water may make it easier to cast a water spell on that target (eg Calm), as there are more water ounia to be manipulated. In your example: "warming" the stones

2. Manipulating the carall to bring out the desired quality. To continue with your example of making a stone 'bright': Warming the stone only intensifies and/or adds fire ounia in general - probably with the heat property switched on. If you want to make the stone glow without making it hot, you need to 'turn off' the heat property and 'turn on' the 'light' property. In link language: Converting the links to the stone's fire ounia from ahm to soor is not enough: Given that heating the object probably added (or intensified existing) fire ounia with the 'heat' property turned on, simply make the links ahm>>soor will make those fire ounia express the already activated property of heat. (The soor links will 'give voice' to the existing heat property but not the light property if that was inactive). Warm # glowing

Therefore, to my mind there seems to be three stages:
(OPTIONAL) 1. Make the carall more conducive to the spell - eg: add more fire ounia (magical); heat the stone (non-magical)
2. The spell: Manipulate the carall: Activate the light property of the fire ounia in the stone
3. The enchantment: Make the spell "hold" - ie manipulate the meta-state: increase the permanence of the now active fire (light) links

Sorry, that got a bit more long-winded than intended. I am very tired today ^sighs^

Rayne, can you please explain the following?

Quote
While a spell will change the qualities for a set amount of time, the balance of xeuá and ecuá within the states of the links themselves remain the same.


- Q: Xeua = the links; xeua (verb) = to make links; to connect; meta-xeua = the quality of permanence (in a link); meta-ecua = the quality of impermanence so ecua = ?   

the verb form presumably means "to break" - but any counter-part to 'xeua (link)'?

Unrelated note: I think eventually we may need to come up with different terms for Xeua (the link) and Xeua (the state of the link; the quality of permanence; the opposite of ecua). They can get confusing unless, like you did here, one takes care in referencing them. But it can get clumsy if one has to mention which xeua one has in mind each time it is mentioned.

Maybe: (two different strash words) or (a suffix/prefix added to one of them to distinguish that from the other)?


EDIT: Only got to "Taintings" - need to eat, do more work, and sleep now. Will read the rest later and update this post to add the extra comments :)
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« Reply #9 on: 08 December 2009, 05:12:25 »

Btw: re "if/then" enchantments - this is where Krean magic comes so handy ;) I had these in mind when I wrote the entry - did my best to conceal that ulterior motive (so that I would not spark an entire discussion before the relevant sub-entry was written), but the suggestions are still there, if one knows where to look for them


Ughh... remind me not to write... in any language... when I am tired...


EDIT 1: Oh, I also had some great ideas for 'taintings' (either positive or negative) used by the Krean - I think some of these have already been alluded to in many entries - I wonder if anyone can spot them?
« Last Edit: 08 December 2009, 05:16:09 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

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"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #10 on: 08 December 2009, 11:55:55 »

Two commentors, two parts!


FOX

Some of my comments might seem a bit nit-picky. I do not mean to be. Unfortunately, magic is terribly complicated, and clear expression is important.

1) You say that elemental magi connect another car'all to the target car'all to make the change in balance. This isn't necessarily needed. Sphere III magi are able to also take ounia out of the target car'all and then re-implement them in a new pattern, thus changing the balance solely with the target car'all and without outside aid. So I would recommend mentioning this as well. This would allow elemental magi to create enchantments that don't necessarily need the presence of the supporting car'all.

When you say "take ounia out of the target car'all," do you mean remove it from the car'all? Or isolate it within the car'all? Or distinguish it within the car'all? If the ounia are taken out of the car'all, are they put back in again later? What happens to the links when ounia are taken out of the car'all? I'm not sure I understand this completely.

Quote
2) You say later that Xeua and Ecua magi do not require as many reagents as Elemental magi. This comparison isn't really necessary, because Elemental magi don't require reagents either, and we've essentially defined Ximaxian magic as 'reagent-less', with reagents only being concentration aids and nothing more.

Gotcha. I wasn't around, I don't think, when this was decided. I'm really glad you brought it up! I can change this from reagents to focusing tools. Do you think that might be a better way to phrase this?

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However, for enchantments that require connections between multiple car'allia, I would think both Xeua/Ecua and Elemental magi would have an equal need for reagents for enchanting. Being able to create links between elements does not increase the availability of a certain quantity of element that might be lacking in the target, so certain enchantments that are far removed from the desired quality would need an outside source, even if the mage is a Xeua one.

I was actually thinking about this. Perhaps we can say that they both require focusing tools, but that the focusing tools for Xeua/Ecua magi are more "elemental"-based (things that would help them evoke the right element for an enchant) while the focusing tools for Elemental magi would be more "link"-based. Would this be a good compromise?

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3) You mention level 4 Xeua magi. I wasn't aware that Xeua/Ecua magi had the same leveling scheme as elemental ones, considering that most Ximaxian Xeua/Ecua magi become Xeua/Ecua only after they've essentially completed their elemental field. Of course they could 're-start' under a new Xeua leveling scheme, but I'm not sure if that needs as many levels as the elemental one.

I might be able to leave this a little vague. My reasons for using specifics was basically as a comparison. What do you think?


COREN

No time to read it in detail - just skimmed through it very quickly.

Looks good to me :)

A few comments

I think you are compounding two distinct issues here:
1. Making the carall of an object more conducive to the spell (ie to the required manipulation). This is analogous to "enchancing/counter measures". Just like a target ingesting a lot of water may make it easier to cast a water spell on that target (eg Calm), as there are more water ounia to be manipulated. In your example: "warming" the stones

2. Manipulating the carall to bring out the desired quality. To continue with your example of making a stone 'bright': Warming the stone only intensifies and/or adds fire ounia in general - probably with the heat property switched on. If you want to make the stone glow without making it hot, you need to 'turn off' the heat property and 'turn on' the 'light' property. In link language: Converting the links to the stone's fire ounia from ahm to soor is not enough: Given that heating the object probably added (or intensified existing) fire ounia with the 'heat' property turned on, simply make the links ahm>>soor will make those fire ounia express the already activated property of heat. (The soor links will 'give voice' to the existing heat property but not the light property if that was inactive). Warm # glowing

I suppose I would have to pose to this question: If an object is warm/hot (fire), would it take the same amount of effort for a mage to make the object bright (fire) as to make it cold (water?)

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Therefore, to my mind there seems to be three stages:
(OPTIONAL) 1. Make the carall more conducive to the spell - eg: add more fire ounia (magical); heat the stone (non-magical)
2. The spell: Manipulate the carall: Activate the light property of the fire ounia in the stone
3. The enchantment: Make the spell "hold" - ie manipulate the meta-state: increase the permanence of the now active fire (light) links[/quote]

Because stage one is optional, I don't really consider it a stage. However, if you think it is easier to understand this way, then I will change it. I want to make the entry as comprehensible as possible!

Sorry, that got a bit more long-winded than intended. I am very tired today ^sighs^

Rayne, can you please explain the following?

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- Q: Xeua = the links; xeua (verb) = to make links; to connect; meta-xeua = the quality of permanence (in a link); meta-ecua = the quality of impermanence so ecua = ?   

the verb form presumably means "to break" - but any counter-part to 'xeua (link)'?

Unrelated note: I think eventually we may need to come up with different terms for Xeua (the link) and Xeua (the state of the link; the quality of permanence; the opposite of ecua). They can get confusing unless, like you did here, one takes care in referencing them. But it can get clumsy if one has to mention which xeua one has in mind each time it is mentioned.

Maybe: (two different strash words) or (a suffix/prefix added to one of them to distinguish that from the other)?

It's interesting you brought this up! When brainstorming this, the first place I went to was the Styrash dictionary. I looked for a word for "still," and didn't find one. I'm hesitant to make one up. Per your advice, I went back to the Styrash dictionary and found move (alán) and stand (stasían). I'm not very happy with them, though. Do you (or does anyone) have any advice for a better term? I am really eager to change them myself!

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Btw: re "if/then" enchantments - this is where Krean magic comes so handy ;) I had these in mind when I wrote the entry - did my best to conceal that ulterior motive (so that I would not spark an entire discussion before the relevant sub-entry was written), but the suggestions are still there, if one knows where to look for them

I will get to that entry (hopefully) in the next few days! I plan on going through it with a fine-tooth comb.  ;)


DISCUSSION

1) Meta-xeua and meta-ecua are just too confusing as terms, and a little awkward to integrate. Does anyone have any suggestions of possible replacements?

2) How do we see Xeua and Ecua operating as principles? Ecua literally means "breaking," but do we generally see this as the turning of soor to ahm? When we talk about "making links" (Xeua), are we really simply talking about turning them from ahm to soor? This is how I have tended to envision it, but I want to make sure this is consistent with the other views here.
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« Reply #11 on: 08 December 2009, 12:24:11 »

When you say "take ounia out of the target car'all," do you mean remove it from the car'all? Or isolate it within the car'all? Or distinguish it within the car'all? If the ounia are taken out of the car'all, are they put back in again later? What happens to the links when ounia are taken out of the car'all? I'm not sure I understand this completely.

Yes, you put it back in, in a different pattern. Instead of intensifying/concentrating elemental ounia to perform a Sphere I or II spell, which results in the spell always having the desire to rebound back into its normal shape, a Sphere III mage can actually rearrange the links like a switchboard, unplugging a wire from one electrical current into another to turn on a new object. Thus the car'all treats its new pattern as 'natural', and thus, in your words, would have a meta-xeua state, even if the new pattern is 'unnatural'. 'Taking out' and 'putting back in' is more of a metaphor, in reality it's just 'breaking' the old links and forming new links so that the resulting pattern is different, but without needing to add any new material.

Think of it like certain kinds of cosmetic or reconstructive surgery. You can cut off a small portion of the skin/organ, and use it to improve another area of the body. It is still the same body, and the 'parts used' are still part of that body, but they have been removed from their natural location and then reapplied to a new location, resulting in a more or less permanent change yet not needing to use an outside source for the new material.

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Gotcha. I wasn't around, I don't think, when this was decided. I'm really glad you brought it up! I can change this from reagents to focusing tools. Do you think that might be a better way to phrase this?

You could, though I would say just don't mention it at all. There's not too much difference from the two that one could say elemental mages use more than Xeua/Ecua ones. By the time an elemental mage is at the enchanting level, most probably don't bother with reagents at all. And, again, both Xeua/Ecua and elemental would have some need for reagents for enchanting, neither moreso than the other.

Note that again, while reagents aren't need for regular spellcasting, for reagents I believe they would be required. So when I say, that elemental magi don't require reagents, I'm referring to normal spells, not for enchantments. So I don't think changing it to 'focusing tool' is necessary.

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I was actually thinking about this. Perhaps we can say that they both require focusing tools, but that the focusing tools for Xeua/Ecua magi are more "elemental"-based (things that would help them evoke the right element for an enchant) while the focusing tools for Elemental magi would be more "link"-based. Would this be a good compromise?

I would think it depends on the exact enchantment moreso than as a general casting aid. A fire magi might not need a reagent to make a hot item burn, while both the fire mage and a Xeua mage would probably need a reagent to make a wet stone burn (or somesuch). But neither should need reagents when the spell is purely consolidated within a single car'allia, or when the links are 'neutral' (neutral as in, Xeua enchants that don't need to change the elemental factors)

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I might be able to leave this a little vague. My reasons for using specifics was basically as a comparison. What do you think?

Vague would be best, since we don't really have any decision on this yet.
« Last Edit: 08 December 2009, 12:34:31 by Fox » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: 08 December 2009, 13:38:31 »

Fox--I have made all changes except the one related to reagents, in lieu of our conversation! I await your entry on reagents and focuses!  heart


EDIT: I have changed meta-xeua and meta-ecua to xeuan meta-state and ecuan meta-state. While there is still room for improvement for terms, this should make the current terms easier to use.
« Last Edit: 08 December 2009, 14:03:46 by Rayne Avalotus » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: 08 December 2009, 22:11:20 »

Just to let you know - I hope to comment more on this over the weekend :) Until then, I fear I will not have time to read anything :(
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« Reply #14 on: 22 December 2009, 04:31:13 »

Hello Rayne! I'm planning to give this a thorough uri tonight. I've copied it into a Word document and shall make the edits/comments there - I hope this will not be a problem? It is quicker than having to colour everything on the boards!

:)
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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