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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« on: 14 January 2010, 00:41:34 »

PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD

The purpose of this thread is to:
(a) brainstorm the Cloud Elves and bounce ideas off each other,
(b) discuss whether these concepts work in the greater scheme of Nybelmar,
(c) offer suggestions and/or alternatives,
(d) raise objections,
(e) approve each element.

Once we reach consensus on an element, Rayne will write a first draft and post it in this thread. After that first draft is approved, Rayne will post the edited version in the Paelrhem tribe entry. If you have any grammatical/stylistic amendments etc, do NOT post them here; please post them there.


To reiterate: Any discussion/alterations/suggestions regarding the concept should take place here. Any discussion/alterations regarding the entry should be posted in the Paelrhem tribe entry.




RULES OF THE GAME

1. Keep up with the discussion: Read what people have written, and follow the discussion. Please do not make semantically-null statements. This tends to happen when people reply/object to a statement without addressing the points raised in it. To make life easier for everyone (for we aim to please ;)), I will maintain Discussion Points à la Rayne summarising what has been discussed so far, and update these regularly.

[More may come should the need arise]



DISCUSSION POINTS

Gray = Decided
Lime = Active


0. Anything I missed?


RE: SOCIETY & CULTURE

1. How reclusive are the Cloud Elves? Have they withdrawn completely from other Nybelmar tribes (except the nomadic Aelónrhim elves)? Related to this: With whom do they have contact? With whom do they trade? Do they (or: have they) ever get involved in the affairs of neighbouring nations? (ie does their Kayr ancestry shine through?

2. Housing
DECISION: Keep cave-network carved into the cliff faces. Add: floating hills. For details, please see the updated Paelrhem tribe entry, 'Housing' & 'Territory'.

3. Where exactly are their settlements? Would they live close enough to the inland rivers to be able to farm rice (rizjo)?

4. With whom do they trade? What do they trade?
  • From whom would they get materials for they clothing?

5. How literate are the Cloud Elves?
Quote
(Rayne) I would think they would be able to read and write on a basic level, but I really don't see the necessity for high literacy, since they are not as concerned with the collection of knowledge.
DECISION: In the entry, Rayne will explain why the CE developed an oral tradition rather than a written one - namely: (i) she will tie this to their lifestyle and the value the CE place on transience, and (ii) a Santharianised version of the conversation between Phaedrus and Socrates.

6. Occupations?


RE: TERRITORY / REALM

7. What does their territory look like? Geographical features?
DECISION: Additions: Floating Hills above the valleys of Taegion Naevrath/Madroth. A special sub-specie of silkel trees growing on those Floating Hills. Please see the updated Paelrhem tribe entry. We'll revisit this topic again when it's time to write the place/state entry. For now I think we have agreed on enough of the basics - they can always be expanded later. :)



8. Climate/weather?


RE: RELIGION

9. Would they read the Carpa'dosia?
DECISION: Summary of discussion between Rakshiri/Koldar & Rayne: Yes. Connected to the literacy issue (see Q5 above): There are a few elves who can read, and these teach the Carpa'dosia orally.

10. Do they believe in the Aviaria? If so, would the names of the deities be different?
DECISION: Summary of discussion between Rakshiri/Koldar & Rayne: Yes. Falethas & Rayne will discuss whether the deities would be known by a different name and whether there are any other linguistic changes necessary for Nybelmarian elves.




NEXT STEPS

Coren:
  • Update the thread/discussion questions & summarise what's been discussed so far - on-going responsibilty

[...]

Rayne:
  • Re Carpadosia/Aviaria: email Koldar (and Viresse?) - Done
  • Re linguistic issues: Open a new discussion thread & contact Falethas

[...]
« Last Edit: 31 January 2010, 02:32:43 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

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Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #1 on: 14 January 2010, 00:49:41 »

(COREN)

Quote
(There arent any Elven Forests in Northwestern Nybelmar)

Quote
(No Elves likely to be found in their territory)

Yes, there are, Deci: Sartheran Elves  cool - Just because there aren't little tree icons on a map does not mean that the area is entirely devoid of forests. I think the convention is that we only mark jungles / large forests on the map. Those mountain ranges within the Sartheran realm are of course covered by a carpet of trees, as most mountains are.

Maybe it would be a good idea to expand the territory/spottings to north-eastern Nybelmar as well. If I recall correctly, there should be a lot of pointy ears around that area - check the political maps. Pheranrhim, cloud/mist elves (paelrhim?), aelonrhim nomads etc - the names escape me atm...

Rayne, maybe you would be interested in developing the Cloud Elves? I think the presence of mists/clouds in that area gave those elves their name. Imagine these Ferlawyng coiling around cloudy mountaintops, gliding through misty valleys, drifting above the plateaus etc ;) Might reinforce the "swimming in air" theme?

Gotta run now!



(DECIPHER)

I meant the Kaerethi Peninsula  buck
« Last Edit: 17 January 2010, 23:08:10 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

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Rayne (Alŭr)
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« Reply #2 on: 14 January 2010, 04:04:00 »

Thank you so much for looking over this, Deci! I took almost all your corrections. There were just a few things I didn't:

Quote
(then what prevents it from burning straight through the Ferlawyng itself?)
I don't think mucus is a Santharian word. Can it be? And I do say "almost anything"?  ;)

Quote
('royal' seems too ambiguous, or at least doesnt fit in my mind somehow. Since, as a Morchini, she would have little grasp of 'elegant Queens' etc., I think a suitable substitute would be 'like the dress of royalty')
"Like the dress of royalty" and "like the dress of a royal" seem almost synonymous to me.

Quote
You mention seasonal differences above...but my only wonder is that are Jungles actually affected that much winter? The Amazon doesnt seem to shed all of its leaves in December, after all. Mira also used some sort of geographical trick so that the climate in the Drifting Woods is always quite humind...I think.
If the leaves don't fall, I may want to consider a different territory.  undecided


Coren: I would be very interested in Cloud Elves (or any other elven tribes), though I'm not sure what you might have in mind, and of course I'm terribly ignorant about Nybelmarian history. If you have some basic information (particularly location/living terrain, and any magical/physical/behavioral qualities they should have), I would be glad to start work on such a tribe.  heart
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #3 on: 14 January 2010, 04:13:33 »

At the speed you are working, it will probably take less time for you to write the entry than me to put together an outline :P I'll dig around to see what we already have on them (to be honest, I don't think we have much). Let me know if you guys find anything as well.

In the meantime, maybe read over the ounia entry again? There are quite a few typographical errors there. And some sentences, although they use simple words, are way too convoluted. Knowing the skill set you carry, I know you can do a lot better Rayne! ;)



Hmm.. I don't think DW fits - how do these huge creatures navigate a mangrove forest and all its intertwined branches. Much more elegant to have them drifting through mist ;) Maybe move them to the NE? It would also give you a good starting point for your new tribe - an "anchor" or central point around which the project can be structured


Btw, feel free to volunteer for any of the elven tribes on Nybelmar. The only one I need to write myself is the Sartheran Elves, as there was a lot of discussion/brainstorming concerning them waaaaaay back that no-else has access to atm.
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"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
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« Reply #4 on: 14 January 2010, 04:33:57 »


Coren: I would be very interested in Cloud Elves (or any other elven tribes), though I'm not sure what you might have in mind, and of course I'm terribly ignorant about Nybelmarian history. If you have some basic information (particularly location/living terrain, and any magical/physical/behavioral qualities they should have), I would be glad to start work on such a tribe.  heart

That is, until she starts a new semester, and we don't see her again.  cry
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Rayne (Alŭr)
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« Reply #5 on: 14 January 2010, 06:38:34 »

That is, until she starts a new semester, and we don't see her again.  cry
My semester has actually already started. I know that between two of my four classes, I have over 250 pages of reading due in the next week. rolleyes

We'll see, though. In all honesty, if I'm not doing something productive in every moment, I'm not happy.  ;)
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #6 on: 14 January 2010, 07:24:19 »

It is quite amazing actually. How amazingly adaptable the human body is. If you train yourself (that is: if you are forced to train yourself) to sleep 4 hours a day, somewhere down the line 5 hours actually starts feeling like a luxury. (Or: I must have elvish blood)

Oh, well... I have a gap year coming up. I plan on going into hibernation, starting July 2010. ;)

- strikes a page off his calendar: "One down, 178 more to go" -



Feel free to start brainstorming on those elves - and on how to integrate the Ferlawyng, should you so wish, to the project
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #7 on: 17 January 2010, 01:28:42 »

Despite much research, including wandering [... Do I really want to make this corny allusion...] lonely as a cloud through the Nybelmarian forums, I have not been able to find mention of Cloud Elves. Where do they live? Do they live in the forest? Mountains? And what is their relationship to other surrounding tribes? Are they recluse, convivial? And do elves in Nybelmar still subscribe to belief in Ava and the Carpa'dosia?

Perhaps you might provide for these sorts of basic questions, Coren? From there I can decide whether or not to integrate the Ferlawyng into the entry, or whether I should perhaps claim one of Kalina's undeveloped dragons (Perhaps the Silver dragon or Wind dragon) for this tribe. I do like the idea of an elven tribe close to a type of dragon--though if we do this, it might be best to have them be fairly recluse.
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #8 on: 17 January 2010, 01:58:17 »

Try searching for "Paélrhem" (allowing for misspellings such as Paelrhim, Paelrhem etc)

I don't know if Koldar/Smith developed anything in relation to them. If you can't find anything, I would be happy to invent some of the essential facts for you  grin

Also, perhaps these maps will help (attached).

PS: The maps were works-in-progress, so most of the territories are not set in stone. As a rule of thumb though they are more or less accurate. The only discrepancy that jumps at me atm is the size of Loreney: it should be a lot smaller.



EDIT: I'd prefer if you used the Ferlawyng. Nybelmar has too many dragons. Koldar's overarching concept was that Nybelmar should be exotic. So we generally try to avoid things which can be found on the Sarvonian continent. Since dragons seems to be plentiful there, it would be best to head in a new direction.
« Last Edit: 17 January 2010, 02:02:35 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #9 on: 17 January 2010, 02:08:25 »

Ah, just remembered this: http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,12762.0.html


EDIT: Apparently, "pael" means mist in elvish. Hmm... I still like "Cloud Elves" better  cool

EDIT-2: Shall we split this thread? These last posts really aren't about the ferlawyng. I propose that we (by that I mean you, as I do cannot exercise moderator powers here) move the discussion on Paelrhem to the Nybelmar board.
« Last Edit: 17 January 2010, 02:34:58 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #10 on: 17 January 2010, 02:12:40 »

Ah! A name is helpful. I was able to find the following:

Quote
- The Paélrhem (Mist Elves)
When the Coórhem and Kaŭrrhem broke into their civil war, the Unrá'rhem moved south to join the Korweyn Empire. However, another band travelled north, through the lands of the Aelónrhim nomads, and settled their own nation in the Taegion Madroth and Taegion Naevreth, all the way up to the cliffs by the sea. This offshoot of the Kaŭr began to call themselves the Mist Elves, as the area they settled was found to have a thick blancket of mist wafting frequently about it.

The territory seems very large to me, but perhaps this is because Nybelmar is smaller and my mental proportions are a bit off.

The problem with the Ferlawyng is that they are very much designed for forest-dwelling, not cliff-dwelling. Everything from territory, to mating, to researchers, to colors would have to change. I'm not fond of the idea of making this entry the "Forest Ferlawyng" entry and making another for "Mist/Cloud Ferlawyngs," but that's the best option I see right now.
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #11 on: 17 January 2010, 02:30:12 »

1) I've made a few edits to my previous posts. See above.

2) It seems we chanced on the same entry. See also the "eastern Nybelmar" section in Eleyr's post:

Quote
Paélrhem Settlements
In the Taegions Madroth and Naevreth, a group of elves, descendants of the Kaýr, have established their own cities in the misty plains, leading all the way up to the cliffs by the sea. Originating as a faction that fled north when the Fallaerion Gaeldorioth broke out into civil war, they remain a relatively tranquil people in the north. Their closest allies are the Aelónrhim nomads, who share their dedication to peace, and they will occasionally trade products with them, visiting their sole permanent settlement about once a year, and trading with the various caravans.

You can look up the surrounding tribes. NB: Since the posting of that overview the Gondolwain (aka Gondolwenmith) have been invented.

3) The territory should remain as-is.

4) Rayne, before you start writing anything, can you please post a bullet-style brainstorm first? That makes life easier for me :D I can check/approve/shoot down concepts a lot more quickly that way from a "Nybelmar-development perspective"

I could also volunteer to co-author the entry, should you so wish.

5) Re forests (or lack thereof) in Cloud Elf territory:

That shouldn't be a problem. See those little mountains to the north/north-western section of that isthmus,  around "th" of "Taegion Naevrath"? (a cleaner, hi-res version of the map may help; attached) Those could be mountainous forests - that is: forests, with the underlying land being a mountain range rather than a flat plain.

I am not sure if I want those flat looking areas around the rivers to be plains or valleys. We might introduce a more mountainous terrain (or perhaps a slightly less flat one). One thing I do NOT want however is to have yet another "elven forest" replacing them on the map  buck

Mira is re-doing the Nybelmar maps, so he should be able to incorporate requests, if we ask nicely. (Or: we could intimidate him :P )

The cliffs would be, well, cliffs. Very high ones. Terminating abruptly. Btw, below the cliffs, between the rock face and the coast would be a few Gondolwain settlements (see map). We could discuss these as things progress.
« Last Edit: 17 January 2010, 02:34:39 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #12 on: 17 January 2010, 02:48:35 »

Using the 'Construction Zone' would give us a forum to discuss anything going on with the Cloud Elves...at least in the early idea conception stage...

Deci
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #13 on: 17 January 2010, 02:57:24 »

I would actually suggest opening a new thread. The "Construction Zone" is meant to be for announcements mainly - that is: to alert people to a new concept being put forward rather than to discuss it. Otherwise that thread gets cluttered.

Once again: I can't split this post and move it, so if someone with the requisite power could do it, that would be great!
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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #14 on: 17 January 2010, 03:01:11 »

i.e. me?  grin
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