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Author Topic: The Great Maul  (Read 15470 times)
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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #15 on: 15 April 2010, 00:36:30 »

My last nitpicks, and then I'll consider for blarrowing.
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early in one of the Sarvonian wars
Which one. The First and Second Sarvonian Wars were fought between men and elves (for the most part). while the Third brought the orcs South of the Tandalas in great numbers. However, it was a while before they reached into the Vardynn province, most of their early attacks were aimed towards Nermerran by default, since it was in the way. Take a look at the description of the Battle of Four Swords, which seems an ideal time for a smith to improvise such a weapon. The battle is close enough that some of the outlying settlements around Jernais might have been threatened by orcs that broke from the main battle.

Quote
metal; usually iron ore steel,
There's another way to produce steel? I was given to understand that steel was an alloy of iron with carbon. However, we do have several types of iron. You might wish to send a PM to Bard Judith, our resident (more-or-less) expert on all things dwarven about the various shades of iron being used to produce steel. Take a look at Fyrite while you're there, it might be important on the handle of an all metal hammer.
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Mīruk Loshashzuck
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« Reply #16 on: 15 April 2010, 01:03:10 »

Oops, I meant iron OR steel.  rolleyes

Will add any further changes in brown.

I can't seem to find anything about the Battle of four swords. Would you mind elaborating on what it is please?
« Last Edit: 15 April 2010, 01:52:00 by M'ruk Loshashzuk » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: 15 April 2010, 01:35:53 »

Check the history section (a pair of crossed swords) under the continents heading, click Sarvonia, South and then look for the bit labeled "The Age of Blood". The Third Sarvonian war occured around 300 b.S. so scroll down there, the Battle of Four Swords should be well towards the bottom of the page (I believe it's around 290 b.S.).

Also of help is the "Search" function on the main site. If you look next to the "Santharian Dream" button that takes to back to the main page and just above the "Site Menu" bar there's a little magnifying glass. This is your best friend when developing Miscellaneous entries next to good sense. It's good for most entries, but Miscellaneous work has been known to reference more disparate entries than others.
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« Reply #18 on: 15 April 2010, 01:57:46 »

Addressed all the comments put forward so far. Ready for more now. grin
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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #19 on: 15 April 2010, 04:57:24 »

I'm still a little cautious about those spikes. It seems ideally that you would have a curved face, since the physics would give you the weight of the hammer focused to the apex of the curve rather than distributed across a flat face.

That said, it seems like one of those spiked monstrosities might be a Chyrakisth weapon. They do so like to make things intimidating, and it would be a nice touch to have some mention of Nybelmar.

All that aside, I'm willing to give this a blarrow if Seeker has no problem.

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« Reply #20 on: 15 April 2010, 05:08:01 »

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I would remove the part about it being best against plate armour.  One, it doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the sentence. and two, it is not really accurate.  the hammer is best against bare skin, then maybe clothed skin, then maybe chain mail, leather armour etc working ones way up to plate armour.


I would still like to see that little part at the beginning removed or at least explained.  I normally wouldn't want to rush the entry to blarrow, but in reality this entry already got a good amount of attention a few years ago, so once that one piece is fixed/explained I am good with it.

Regarding the spikes-  A spiked warhammer is bordering on being called a mace.  However I am OK with how it is described here.  Certainly someone out there will put a spike on a hammer even if it doesn't fit the original intent of the hammer.

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« Reply #21 on: 15 April 2010, 05:10:43 »

I think the intention is that it would have spikes on the face of the hammer, a little like a meat tenderizer.
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #22 on: 15 April 2010, 06:43:48 »

The spikes - They would probably be about an inch or so long, and there would be a distinct difference between "spiked" and "plain". The former would probably have molded spikes on a flatish face whereas the latter would have, as Valan said, a rounded face.

And the plate armour - I think it is ambiguous. everyone reads it as "The warhammer performs better against plate armour than bare skin", but it could (and probably does) mean something like "The warhammer performs better against plate armour than other weapons as effective against a less heavily defended opponent" or "The effectiveness of the warhammer is not greatly affected by armour as much as that of other weapons, and so is an ideal way to attack an opponent wearing plate armour" - ie, it is relatively very effective against plate.

I think...

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« Reply #23 on: 15 April 2010, 07:24:42 »

What I meant was that warhammers are one of the most effective weapons against plate armour. Sorry if that confused anyone. Ill write that instead in navy if it helps.
« Last Edit: 17 April 2010, 00:45:04 by M'ruk Loshashzuk » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: 15 April 2010, 07:27:54 »

Or should I just remove that part altogether?
« Last Edit: 17 April 2010, 00:45:11 by M'ruk Loshashzuk » Logged

Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #25 on: 15 April 2010, 07:38:24 »

I'm trying to figure it out. Plate armor is a series of interlocking metal "plates" that cover the body. I think there's just too many to break to actually say it's better than say, a well shot arrow (A good shot with a bow could put an arrow through steel plate and into say, your stomach)  or an expertly placed sword.

At least traditionally plate armor would stand up better to battering because it was more rigid than say chain.

So yes, remove the bit about the plate armor altogether. You'll want to rework the rest of the phrase (which isn't the best at the moment) or drop the whole thing entirely.
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #26 on: 15 April 2010, 07:44:33 »

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A good shot with a bow could put an arrow through steel plate and into say, your stomach
 

Most plate armour was designed well enough to avoid this, by being strong and rounded so the arrow was deflected instead of puncturing.  Not to say it couldn't or didn't happen.  But, the rise of warhammers was in part due to the improvements in plate mail.  Good plate negated the effectiveness of slashing swords.  Hammers took the place.  As far as spikes go, I don't see the need for putting them on the face of the hammer, but think it makes more sense to place it (one thick spike) opposed to the face, so that the weilder simply twisted the face about and was able to punch through helmets, etc.

Edit: In battle, the hammer was used to knock down and stun an opponent, then turned about so the spike could be employed to dispatch the victim.  Also where the dagger was employed by knights.

Edit 2:  Pic of Warhammer examples


Edit 3:  or are you perhaps confusing the Warhammer with the Great Maul?  Which was more like a sledgehammer.
« Last Edit: 15 April 2010, 07:51:48 by Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin » Logged

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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #27 on: 15 April 2010, 07:58:30 »

You seem to have hit the nail on the head. We do seem to have the wrong scale. I think we might have been creating a maul instead. Blame this Aylix character perhaps?

And there was that whole arms race business between arrows and armor. Better arrows and bows, thicker plate.
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« Reply #28 on: 15 April 2010, 08:19:05 »

What are the differences between warhammers and great mauls? I think that mauls were simply big smithy hammers, whereas warhammers were shaped for war with one face bigger than the other and sometimes had spikes attached. If that is the case, we can blarrow this (if no one can see anything else wrong with it) and make a new entry for the Great Maul because is a seperate weapon.
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« Reply #29 on: 15 April 2010, 08:40:03 »

What Altario is saying is that we may have, unintentionally, created a great maul *instead of* a warhammer entry.

A great maul is what it sounds like. A large slab of rock or metal on the end of a handle. You bash faces, rupture internal organs and general cause mayhem with it. And I believe it has a longer handle. Essentially a weaponized sledgehammer, like you mentioned. A warhammer would have been a more precise (in terms of size) weapon. And it has the spike on the rear, like a bigger, fused claw hammer.

And kindly exercise some patience M'ruk. As Seeker mentioned an entry doesn't usually get called for a blarrow all that quickly and for reasons exactly like this. I'm going to go over this again in a bit to make sure nothing else has been missed.
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