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Author Topic: Witches and Witchcraft. A proposal  (Read 11508 times)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #15 on: 31 May 2011, 01:45:34 »

I don't think that your position contradicts necessarily what we're trying to say, Talia. You tend to generalize what we're trying to establish as the options we have and the extremes we can go with the concept. Which only means e.g. to make it clearer: Witchfinders are possible in Santharia in certain circumstances - it doesn't need to be the official position of representatives of Twelvern faith. There are shades and nuances throughout the representatives of the Twelvern belief, and this is one of the darker sides we can integrate to make the fantasy world more interesting.

P.S. A Baveras Aid, according to what I tried to say above, would be someone who has decided to be part of an institution, use the gift for that - this would be the decisive difference to a witch.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #16 on: 31 May 2011, 04:22:13 »


Good! :) Just wanted to present my concerns. I'm open for nearly anything.
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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang
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« Reply #17 on: 31 May 2011, 04:42:05 »

So Twelvern clerics would have a range of attitudes to witches. At one extreme, as Talia suggests, a cleric would judge a witch simply by her stance toward the Twelvern Gods, not having any negative attitude to witchcraft as such. At the other extreme, some religious individuals or groups might judge witchcraft to be an evil, anti-Twelvern practice - Arti's emphasis. I could work with that.

As far as Santharian witches themselves are concerned, they in turn could have a range of attitudes towards the Twelve. While many witches would maybe think of the Twelve as minor gods whom they have no reason to pay attention to, others would find that their beliefs or even their magic practices have an affinity with one of the twelve. I think Etherus (ecstasy), Jeyriall (fertility), and Seyella (destiny) would be likely candidates here.

And I agree with Ta'lia: there is no reason in principle why an individual witch might not at some point in her life 'defect' and join a religious order.

Concerning witchfinders: I anyway thought that witchfinders would not necessarily be clerics themselves. Witchfinders might be individuals who rightly or wrongly claim to have expertise on witches. A witchfinder might be a former witch's apprentice who rejected his teacher, or got rejected by her. Or it might be a Ximax student who didn't have much success as a mage, but found, in witchfinding, an outlet for his aspiration.

If someone wanted to collaborate on this project, writing an entry on witchfinders might be something to think about? There already exists a certain Malleus Mallefiz (mentioned in the Evil Ear entry, and in the Dula draft), so there is some material to start from ...
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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #18 on: 31 May 2011, 04:57:41 »

I'd be quite willing to work on the the witch-finding/finders with you Shaba, if only for the name there :P Well played.
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« Reply #19 on: 31 May 2011, 05:22:29 »

witchfinders reminds me a bit of witchhunters of the Empire of Warhammer/White Dwarf Fame ... as well as the Witch Hunter Army of the Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40K. Not saying there's anything wrong with that ... just thought I'd mention it as a possible source of inspiration. Also, David Eddings had a 'witch' as one of his central characters in Redemption of the thief whose name starts with A. Although in her case, she wasn't a  witch, hysteria was just whipped up about her by a local priest who had 'unholy thoughts' about her. She was actually described as being quite an attractive woman, if memory serves me correctly ... no warts growing on the end of her nose for that one :D

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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang
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« Reply #20 on: 31 May 2011, 06:45:08 »

The term "witchfinder" is historical. I've never read David Eddings, or played Warhammer.

Valan: welcome to the project!
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« Reply #21 on: 31 May 2011, 08:45:58 »

I now want to write a short story in which (no pun intended) a young woman discovers her talents for witchery, grows up practicing, but is torn between her love for the magic, its uses to help and heal people,  and her devout faith, which sees her type of gift as being dangerous if not under the direct control of the deity responsible for blessing her with it...

And I'm also tempted to put a young male witchfinder in and have them fall in love, although that part seems a bit too Good Omens-ish.      Ah, well, one more tribute to Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman can't hurt.....
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #22 on: 31 May 2011, 09:02:28 »

I like the sound of that, Judy. Would love to read it! :D
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #23 on: 01 June 2011, 00:15:46 »

I'd like to see more witch connections with the Thalambath wizards. We make alot of references with Ximax, but Thalam is the more exotic, mysterious, of the two and makes sense to me to have witches there than the more uptight, straight-laced Ximaxian. And it's a good excuse to get Fox back here.  grin
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #24 on: 01 June 2011, 03:24:09 »

Yeah, witchfinders are historical figures, indeed. A good example of this dubious profession can be seen in the movie "Witchfinder General" (made 1968 with Vincent Price) based on a real character, famous for the fact that the promising director died soon afterwards.

To sum that movie up a bit and provide some fodder for medieval tension: It's about a man who isn't interested in witches as such, but money, power and women. But of course his main intention in order to become rich and famous and force supposed witches to do his bidding has to be to first nurture the superstitions related to witches, bring up questionable evidence and finally eliminate witches to be rewarded by superstitious folk. So you see: The fear of people is abused towards an even darker goal. - If the general situation of the kingdom is bad, self-declared witchfinders can make a fortune out of it, they don't even need an official order to hunt witches. All they need to find is rumours about witches and superstitious people that believe them. Provides a good background for drama.

@Judy: Would be great to see you writing a story! It's been a while since I read a tale you wrote!  grin
« Last Edit: 01 June 2011, 03:30:19 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang
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« Reply #25 on: 02 June 2011, 02:36:38 »

Arti: yes, that's one of the directions I thought the witchfinder idea might go!


Judy: tickets for your performance of "The Witchfinder's Dilemma" are selling fast. You better get the script done! (Don't feel bound by the title, though; it was imposed by the impresario of the New Theatre of Bardavos, for marketing reasons .)


Thalambath: I don't know anything about the wizards of Thalambath, really. They don't seem to have an entry, or do they? Where can I read up on them?
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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang
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« Reply #26 on: 10 June 2011, 05:30:17 »

I found this on Thalambathian Magic. Are there other things I could read for reference?
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #27 on: 10 June 2011, 05:32:50 »

I found this on Thalambathian Magic. Are there other things I could read for reference?


Honestly, don't worry about Thalam. I think I am the only one remotely interested in the wizards other than Fox (who doesn't come around much). Keep focus on Ximaxian connections where you'd get the most support.
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No, I would not want to live in a world without dragons, as I would not want to live in a world without magic, for that is a world without mystery, and that is a world without faith. And that, I fear, for any reasoning, conscious being, would be the cruelest trick of all.
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« Reply #28 on: 04 October 2011, 11:09:28 »

This is an awesome entry.  I admire your ability to convey detailed information while maintaining a nice flow and keeping your readers' interest.  The section on the philosophical basis of witchcraft was particularly interesting.  I liked the way you incorporated both order and chaos, linked together by threads of energy.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #29 on: 04 October 2011, 14:36:09 »

Shaba, just ask Drustai :)
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