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Author Topic: Ximaxian Elemental Magic: The [10, give or take] Commandments of Spellcasting  (Read 6915 times)
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« on: 15 June 2011, 21:50:57 »

XIMAXIAN ELEMENTAL MAGIC: THE [10, GIVE OR TAKE] COMMANDMENTS OF SPELL-CASTING


INTRODUCTION & HOUSE-KEEPING

I would like to resurrect a project Artimidor proposed in 2008. The goal is to develop clear guidelines that magical development (that is: Ximaxian elemental magic) should follow. The principles we define here should not be bent, but serve as the blueprint for development of spells.

Perhaps we could also adopt this as a methodology? In the past, magic discussions tended to run into 20+ pages and eventually shifted into a different plane of existence altogether, leaving no tangible result behind. From now on, whenever a major question arises perhaps it should be discussed and then formulated into a clear axiom that can be appended here?

Do you guys think this would be a good idea? It would be awesome if we could make this our next team project. Happy to play secretary and tidy up/consolidate as the discussion moves along.


NOTES:

1)   I am trying to consolidate what we already know about Ximaxian Magic – and when I run into a gap, I make things up as I go.

2)   I am slowly combing through that old thread and consolidating the questions, comments, disagreements into axioms, explanations and case studies. The original Magic Commandments discussion came to 35 pages in hardcopy form – I think I have distilled about 10 pages so far.

3)   Ideally, we would make the most progress if as many people as possible read the original thread. Admittedly, it is rather long. The good news is you don’t really need to read up the whole thing before participating in the discussion here. But please do dip into it from time to time, a page a day perhaps? ;)

HOUSE-KEEPING

4)    Colour-coding:

  • Existing Stuff – This is information that we already have, theories on which we have consensus. I take these as givens. They are not necessarily set in stone – they can still be debated, but we should not change them based on a whim. If they are illogical, inconsistent or cause problems, then by all means let’s (i) challenge them, (ii) adjust/replace them, (iii) validate/invalidate the new postulate.
  • New stuff I invented – If a question/gap arises while I write, I will invent something to answer/fill it, if I can. These are very much like hypotheses. They may or may not be “the answer” – they certainly are not meant to be holy commandments which should be obeyed without question. Rather, they represent one possible view – the one I happened to invent on the spot. They should be investigated, thought through. Again, we should see if we (i) can validate it or (ii) have to adjust it to end up with a new postulate.
  • Questions/Gaps I could not answer – These signal areas on which I got stuck. If a question occurs to me or has been raised in the past to which I do not have an answer, I will pose it in lilac. Then we should:

    (i) open a new thread and brainstorm
    (ii) formulate a general statement/postulate based on that discussion
    (iii) validate / invalidate / adjust it

5) The axiom numbers might change. Once we have the full list, we can rearrange it into the most logical order.

6) Can someone (Bard Judith? Rayne? Shab?) go over the axioms and ‘streamline’ them? And perhaps the explanations too, if you are feeling generous? There was a spell for this, I think. Ah yes: ‘Please’?

7) Should we have diagrams to illustrate the Axioms? If so, would any of our artists like to volunteer?

8) New Styrash words:

Quote from: Artimidor
uasjerán = to channel - lit. "uás/injerán" ("to guide/lead together")
uasjeráj (f.) = channelling (=the process)
uasjeréy (m.) = channel (=the result)
tehmaedán = to release (lit. "tehlán/maedán", "cause/lose")
pharmarollásh (f.) = artery (lit. "blood giver")
reollásh (f.) = giver; donor
irán = to hold
iréy (m.) = holder; keeper
pharmariréy (m.) = blood vessel (lit. "blood holder")
cár'reollán = to give life
« Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 00:33:54 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #1 on: 15 June 2011, 21:51:35 »

XIMAXIAN TERMINOLOGY

Cár'áll (Aura)
The Cár'áll (Plural: Cár'allía) of an entity is also often referred to as "aura", "magical energy" or "substance of life". This substance represents the basis, the template behind an entity. The structure of a Cár'áll is composed of ounia (elemental parts) and the xeuá links (connections) between these ounía.

Magical manipulation targets and affects the constellation of ounía, the xeua links, and their relations to each other within a specific Cár'áll. Depending on the type of spell, such manipulations will have varying effects on the structure of the Cár'áll, and consequently, its appearance, alignment and orientation.

Entity
An entity, in the Ximaxian sense, is an elemental existence that can be interpreted by the caster's mind as a distinct, separate cár'áll (aura). An Entity can be an object, the mage himself/herself, the air surrounding the caster, but it is something that stands on its own.

Entities (or parts of entities) are only susceptible to magical manipulation due to such a reflection of said existence within the mind of the caster.

Question: (i) Not really sure what this means (ii) Sounds a bit too much like ‘anything goes’


Focus
Focus is the area or spot of an entity the mage directs his concentration to in order to manipulate it by magical means, thus causing an effect. The effect can affect the focus itself, or a target that is suggested by the mage through the focus.

Ounía (Parts)
Ounía (Styrásh: portions, pieces, parts) can be described as knots or nodes of elemental energy within an entity's cár'áll. Every entity has all four kinds of elemental ounía (wind, earth, fire and water) present in itself to a larger or lesser degree. The resulting cár'áll can be imagined as a net of ounia nodes connected by xeua links. Links between ounía are either áhm (passive) or soór (active), thus defining the characteristics of the cár'áll and its general alignment towards specific elements.

Target
Target is the direction the effect of a magical spell points to directly or indirectly. In short, it is the area (or object, entity etc) a spell ultimately affects.
« Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 00:33:45 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #2 on: 15 June 2011, 21:52:43 »

        XIMAXIAN AXIOMS: the explanation

        Ximaxian Magical Therory, Axiom 0: The Mirror Principle
        An object and its carall reflect one another. Change the carall and you change the object.

        Explanation
        A change in the aura affects a change - which can be physical, spiritual or both - in the object/being. Therefore, by altering a carall, a mage can bring about a change in the actual entity represented by that carall.


        Ximaxian Magical Therory, Axiom I: The Necessity of Focus (Cár'reóll)
        Cár'reóll is the Styrash word for “heart” (lit. “life-giver”). Every magic spell needs a focus (carreol), and can have only one focus. The focus is the heart of the magical manipulation, its pulse, the source of the spell effect, and one spell cannot come alive with two hearts beating.

        Explanation
        Cár'reóll, the Styrash word for “heart”, is used to make it clear that there can only be one focus through which the spell is cast. The cár'reóll, as the heart of the auratic manipulation, is the key point where magic is generated.


        Ximaxian Magical Theory, Axiom II: Focus per Entity
        The Cár'reóll, as the location where magical manipulation takes place, can be a single spot or an area, but is restricted to a single Entity. A mage can use an Entity in its entirety or any part within it as the cár'reóll.

        Explanation
        It is not possible to spread the cár'reóll of a spell onto two Entities. An elemental mage cannot focus his will on and alter the carall of Entity 1 and Entity 2 simultaneously.

        • Example-1: A mage wants to make something softer by reducing the influence of Earth in the carall. The “magic” (the auratic manipulation) here is using the will to bend the carall away from Earth. Remember: The cár'reóll is the heart of the auratic manipulation, the key point where magic is generated. Therefore, the “cár'reóll” here is the part of the carall the mage focuses on (that is: the ounia on which Earth’s influence is going to be weakened). Since a stone and the mage himself are two separate Entities, a mage cannot soften the stone and his own thumb at the same time: he must either focus on the carall of the stone or his own carall, but not both simultaneously.

          Example-2: The cár'reóll cannot be spread over two Entities. Therefore, a wind mage cannot at the same time manipulate the surrounding air and the air inside himself. This would require two different spells to be cast, which can then be combined: See Axiom IV.

        Ximaxian Magical Theory, Axiom III: Cár'reóll vs Target
        There can only be a single focus (cár'reóll) for a spell – but a spell can affect, through that single focus, multiple Targets. Cár'reóll (focus) is important for spell formation, while Target is important for spell release.

        Explanation
        The cár'reóll (heart) and the Target of the spell are two separate concepts: The cár'reóll is the area of the carall a mage focuses his will (the ounia/links he alters through his will). Casting a spell is like dropping a stone into a lake: it ripples outward. The cár'reóll is where you drop the stone, the effect is the undulations in the water, and the Target is the part of the lake that is affected.

        Let us bring out the difference between cár'reóll and Target by means of some examples:

        • Example-1: The mage contains the effects to the cár'reóll – here target = cár'reóll:

          (a)   A mage can focus his will on an Entity in its entirety, the magical manipulation taking place in the whole of its carall (cár'reóll), and bring about a change in the whole carall/Entity (target). For instance, a mage can focus on the carall of a stone and soften the whole stone.

          (b)   A mage can focus his will on only a part of an Entity (individual carall), and only bring about a change in that part. For instance, one can focus on only a certain part of the stone’s carall and make only part of the stone softer, say the centre.

          Example-2: The mage focuses his will on the cár'reóll, but the effects extend beyond the cár'reóll:

          (a)   One can magically manipulate only part of an Entity’s carall (the Cár'reóll) but bring about a change in the whole carall (the Target). For instance, a fire mage can gather fire ounia to a single part of the carall (the cár'reóll) but then the magically manipulated ounia spread to the rest of the carall, “igniting” other fire ounia they come into contact with. So, the mage focuses his will on the part of the carall corresponding to your heart (cár'reóll), but the heat generated there spreads, first to your lungs, then to your chest, then to your stomach... until a warm, fuzzy feeling permeates your entire body (Target).

          (b)   The cár'reóll is the whole of an Entity (the cár'reóll is restricted to a single entity: see Axiom II), but the effects encompass several Entities. For instance, you heat the air in a room (the cár'reóll: one Entity, an individual carall, the key point where magic is generated) and end up making everyone in the room sweat (the Target: several Entities, the carallia of every individual there).


        • Case Study: Sweating is good for you
          We will now look at various ways of making people sweat. Suppose Mr Wargrider is in a room with several other Compendiumists.

           Compare the methods described in Example-1(a) and Example-2(b) above:

          (a)   Example-1(a) Method: The distinguishing feature here is that cár'reóll = target. Cár'reóll = the carall of Mr Wargrider; Target = Mr Wargrider. The fire property of heat is increased in the cár'reóll via Sphere 1 and the result (effect) is that Mr Wargrider starts sweating.

          (b)   Example-2(b) Method: The distinguishing feature here is that the magical effect generated through manipulation of the cár'reóll extends beyond the cár'reóll. Cár'reóll = air in the room; Target = people in the room. The fire property of heat is increased in the cár'reóll via Sphere 1 and the result (effect) is that all the people in the room, including Mr Wargrider, start sweating.

          The latter is a more indirect spell, the first one is direct.

          (WARNING: Please consult your Rebalancer beforehand. The spell may have unintended side-effects: people with delicate constitutions may faint as orcish fumes begin to rise.)


        • Case Study: Fire Rain
          The mage focuses on the sky (= cár'reóll) above a group of foes causing fire to rain down (= spell effect) on the enemies (=target).
        Ximaxian Magical Theory, Axiom IV: Spell Combinations
        Although each spell can only have a single cár'reóll, spells can be combined to achieve a desired effect. These combinations can create Amplifications, Compound-Spells, Spell-Mixtures or Channelled Spells.

        Explanation
        1)   Amplification: Spells that are capable of being cast independently of one another can be cast in succession to strengthen one another.

        • The ‘enhancing spell’ can come first, preparing the ground for the ‘main spell’: A fire mage wants to make a fire emit more light. He can use Sphere 3 to add more fire ounia to the fire, turning it into a bigger and brighter blaze. Or he can use Sphere 1 to intensify the Element of Fire within the carall and its property of illumination. These two spells are independent of one another: neither requires the other to work. The mage can amplify the effect by combining the two spells: the fire will burn much brighter as there are more fire ounia expressing the property of illumination.

          Or the ‘enhancing spell’ can come after the ‘main spell’: Once a tornado is generated (main spell), a wind mage can add more wind (enhancing spell) to enlarge the tornado.
        2)   Compound-Spells: These are spell combinations that ‘build’ on one another: the preparatory spell is a prerequisite (or: condition precedent) to the ‘main spell’.

          Example: A mage wishes to create a storm out of still air. She needs to first cast “Conjure Wind” (=gather more wind) and then let the main spell follow, “Generate Storm” (=turning the wind into a storm).

        3)   Spell-Mixtures: Unrelated spells can be cast back to back for an end result, without directly enhancing or developing one another.

          Example: A water mage douses a target and then a fire mage strikes him with lightning.

        4)   Channelling spells: The mage casts the same spell over and over again back to back, thus creating the illusion of it being a single spell.

          Example: A mage initiates an effect similar to a hailstorm by pelting a target with ice shard after ice shard: create shard-release shard, create-release, create-release...


        Question: Menu reorganisation: Should we separate the spell list into different categories, as Fox once suggested: a single spell list, which contains single spells with a single focus, and then a spell combo list, which contains spell entries that combine single spells to create an ultimate final result? I personally think this is a great idea.


        Ximaxian Magical Theory, Axiom V: Focusing vs Channelling: Cár'reólláj (lit. ‘giving life’) vs Uasjeráj (lit. ‘guiding/leading together’)
        Cár'reólláj (lit. ‘giving life’) refers to spell-formation whereas Uasjeráj relates to spell-release: The cár'reóll is used to gather or generate magical energies, which are then ‘channelled’ (= collected, orientated, split etc) through the pharmarolláshia to cause an effect on the Target. Uasjeráj (channelling) happens through the cár'reóll (focus). A spell can only have one heart (cár'reóll, Styrash lit ‘life-giving’), but many arteries (pharmarolláshia: lit. ‘blood giver’) carrying the blood from the heart to the Target(s).

        Explanation
        A note on the Styrash terminology:

          uasjerán = to channel - lit. "uás/injerán" ("to guide/lead together")
          uasjeráj (feminine) = channelling (=the process)
          uasjeréy (masculine) = channel (=the result)
          tehmaedán = to release (lit. "tehlán/maedán", "cause/lose")
          pharmarollásh (f.) = artery (lit. "blood giver")
          reollásh (f.) = giver; donor
          irán = to hold
          iréy (m.) = holder; keeper
          pharmariréy (m.) = blood vessel (lit. "blood holder")
          cár'reollán (verb) = to give life


        • Case Study: Bow-analogy
          Casting a spell can be likened to shooting an arrow:

          The arrow is the spell effect. Whatever ends up being hit by that arrow is the Target. The bow is the cár'reóll, the key point where magic is generated. While the archer may be aiming the arrow at a certain object (the Target), the bow is the cár'reóll, in that it is the tension generated by drawing the bow that actually sends the arrow towards the ultimate target.

          An archer can only use one bow at a time (cár'reóll) but can release (channel) more than one arrow, heading towards different directions, from the same bow.


        • Case Study: Hailstorm & Ice-shards
          A mage wants to generate a blizzard, with dozens of ice shards which then rain on a single field. There are various ways he can do this:

          (a)   Ice-shards: What appears as a hailstorm effect could be the casting of multiple quick firing spells instead of a single spell. The single spell would be ‘create single ice shard, then release’. The ‘blizzard’ then would be the result of a spell combination in which the mage casts the same spell over and over again back to back, thus creating the illusion of it being a single spell. This would be a typical ‘channelling spell’ (see Axiom IV).

          (b)   Hailstorm: A hailstorm is generated without multiple spells to cast every single shard: The cár'reóll is altered magically to produce an overall effect, which is then released through numerous [arteries]. The cár'reóll would be the air above the ground, the ground radius would be the Target: the mage positions the cár'reóll (focus) over the Target, allowing gravity to pull the spell down through the arteries once he releases it.


        Ximaxian Magical Theory, Axiom VI: Charting the cár'reóll
        Within a single Entity, a cár'reóll can be any size or shape.
           
        Explanation
        The cár'reóll (focus space) can be moulded into any shape: The area the magical manipulation is generated from can be a single point, a sphere, a triangle, a circle that encloses a certain part of a carall etc. Cár'reóll cannot be spread over two entities – but within a single Entity, how the cár'reóll looks like depends only on the imagination and ability of the caster.

        • Example-1: Cár'reóll = a single point which is made luminescent (the fire property of illumination is activated in a single point, from which issues light)

          Example-2:  cár'reóll = a sphere into which and through which a fire ball is gathered

          Example-3: cár'reóll = a circular potion of a carall which then ‘erupts’ into a wall of fire encircling a Target

        A cár'reóll can be as large or as small as necessary, providing it remains within a single Entity. Spells with an enormous cár'reóll (e.g. focusing on the sky to cause a weather change) require considerable power from the mage – a novice would fail instantly. The Ximaxian recommendation to beginner mages is to focus as small a cár'reóll as possible and then suggest a larger Target through this cár'reóll:

        • Example-1: Within a hobbit-sized cár'reóll a twister is generated, which continues to pull in surrounding air and grow as long as the cár'reóll is maintained. The magical manipulation/movement within the cár'reóll creates a vortex which sucks in and circulates more and more wind, gradually amplifying the effect.
        [/list][/list][/list]
        « Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 02:49:17 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

        "Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

        "Is he allowed to do that?"
        "I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
        "Yes, what does that mean?"
        "'Because I say so', I think."
        "That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
        "Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
        Coren FrozenZephyr
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        « Reply #3 on: 15 June 2011, 21:53:19 »

        DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

        Gray = Decided Discussion Questions
        Green = Active Discussion Questions
         

        (1)   We need a verb form for “cár'reóll” – as in the difference between ‘The focus of the spell is...’  and ‘The mage should “focus” on...’


        (2)   “Magically manipulate” gets a bit clumsy the nth time you need to use it in a paragraph. Can I coin a new verb for this – “magipulate” maybe? Also, how about “magislate” (magic + legislate) in the sense of “magical legislation” or “laying down a new rule/principle of magic”?


        (3)   Re Axiom-IV: How do we explain spells such as Quilrosh’s Fireball L3? Does it create a spell between two foci: one focus at the hand and one at the fireball being generated between which fire ounia circulate? Or does the caster serve as a ‘base’ and the fireball as the cár'reóll so that the spell is rooted between the base and a single focus until it is ‘released’? A related question: The mage gathers fire ounia into the cár'reóll to build the fire-‘ball’. But how does he hold the energies back, aiming towards something, before he releases these energies towards that direction?


        (4)   Re Axiom-IV (Spell Combos):  Menu reorganisation: Should we separate the spell list into different categories, as Fox once suggested: a single spell list, which contains single spells with a single focus, and then a spell combo list, which contains spell entries that combine single spells to create an ultimate final result? I personally think this is a great idea.


        (5)   Need a styrash term for ‘channelling’ or perhaps ‘releasing’. What about ‘artery’ (to continue the heart analogy)?


        (6)   Terminology: Entity: “Entities (or parts of entities) are only susceptible to magical manipulation due to such a reflection of said existence within the mind of the caster.” Question: (i) Not really sure what this means (ii) Sounds a bit too much like ‘anything goes’


        (7)   Question: Elemental properties – How do we know whether a given property can be used for physical or spiritual manipulation? We have three options here:

        (i)   An elemental property is either physical or spiritual, but never both.
        (ii)   Some elemental properties are solely physical, some solely spiritual and some both.
        (iii)   Each elemental property has both a physical and a spiritual representation/reflection.

        I don’t think this is a matter that can be determined by logic. This is a choice we have to make as developers.



        (8) Is the carall (i) a template which exists beneath/beyond the world we see or (ii) is it very much “of this world”?
        Please discuss here.


        (8A) Arti, at several points in the past you mentioned that you would like to move away from the conception of Ximax as a place where they have all the answers to one where, just like in the real world, there are diverging opinions, different theories and interpretations. So a purely practical question: Would you prefer Q8 to be an area where there is a divergence of academic opinion between Ximaxian mages? Then perhaps we could write something together and present the two as two leading theories on the subject. Or would you consider this to be such a fundamental concept/issue that you would prefer to set it as fact? Then I can go through and edit my previous entries to bring them in line with your vision. Either way is fine with me. :)
        Please discuss here.


        (9) How do we define "magic"? What distinguishes magic from other activities?
        Please discuss here.
        « Last Edit: 25 June 2011, 21:31:40 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

        "Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

        "Is he allowed to do that?"
        "I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
        "Yes, what does that mean?"
        "'Because I say so', I think."
        "That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
        "Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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        « Reply #4 on: 15 June 2011, 21:53:37 »

        [Reserved, just in case]
        « Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 01:11:33 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

        "Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

        "Is he allowed to do that?"
        "I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
        "Yes, what does that mean?"
        "'Because I say so', I think."
        "That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
        "Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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        « Reply #5 on: 15 June 2011, 22:23:36 »

        Oh Coren, what an excellent way of.. oh, what?  :P
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        "For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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        « Reply #6 on: 16 June 2011, 00:32:01 »

        Lol Talia :P

        Almost there. Three more of those reserved posts to colour code...
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        "Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

        "Is he allowed to do that?"
        "I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
        "Yes, what does that mean?"
        "'Because I say so', I think."
        "That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
        "Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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        « Reply #7 on: 16 June 2011, 01:10:18 »

        Done! *phew*
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        "Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

        "Is he allowed to do that?"
        "I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
        "Yes, what does that mean?"
        "'Because I say so', I think."
        "That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
        "Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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        « Reply #8 on: 16 June 2011, 10:35:01 »

        Quote
        Perhaps we could also adopt this as a methodology? In the past, magic discussions tended to run into 20+ pages and eventually shifted into a different plane of existence altogether, leaving no tangible result behind. From now on, whenever a major question arises perhaps it should be discussed and then formulated into a clear axiom that can be appended here?

        Yes!  This would be extremely useful.  You have my vote.

        Quote
        This substance represents the basis, the template behind an entity.

        This reads awkwardly.  I'd suggest replacing the comma with an 'or'.

        Quote
        An entity, in the Ximaxian sense, is an elemental existence that can be interpreted by the caster's mind as a distinct, separate cár'áll (aura).

        It should be distinguished by this point or at this point the difference between the Car'all and a car'all.

        Quote
        Entities (or parts of entities) are only susceptible to magical manipulation due to such a reflection of said existence within the mind of the caster.

        Question: (i) Not really sure what this means (ii) Sounds a bit too much like ‘anything goes’

        This sounds like a poorly worded way of saying "the reason we can manipulate an entity is because the caster imposes his will on its car'all.  The car'all is a mirror reflection of the 'reality' of the entity, thus changing it changes the properties expressed by the entity."  Does that make sense?

        Quote
        A change in the aura affects a change - which can be physical, spiritual or both - in the object/being.

        I think 'affects' here should be creates.  Otherwise it reads awkwardly.

        -Personally, I don't like the whole concept of car'reoll, as it creates a necessity for Axiom IV where honestly it is unneeded.  I think it is just creating extra muddle in an already overly complex system.  At this point in time, I'm not going to make a huge argument about it since I'd rather focus on other portions of this submission, but I'd just like to voice my opinion on the issue.

        Quote
        Question: Menu reorganisation: Should we separate the spell list into different categories, as Fox once suggested: a single spell list, which contains single spells with a single focus, and then a spell combo list, which contains spell entries that combine single spells to create an ultimate final result? I personally think this is a great idea.

        While I think it might be useful for developers to have, I don't think its an efficient way for non-magic specialists to find spells on site.  Chances are they aren't going to be searching for spells based upon their category, since they won't understand what that is, but rather by element.  Thus, I'd suggest leaving the spell list in the Magic menu as formatted, but create a stickied list divided by category in the Magic forum for magic enthusiasts that could be updated regularly.

        Quote
        (2)   “Magically manipulate” gets a bit clumsy the nth time you need to use it in a paragraph. Can I coin a new verb for this – “magipulate” maybe? Also, how about “magislate” (magic + legislate) in the sense of “magical legislation” or “laying down a new rule/principle of magic”?

        I think we should be trying to cut back new terms, not create more.  There's already a mini-Oxford dictionary of magical terms out there, lets not try and further confuse everyone.  Plus, I think its always going to be implied when discussing magic that you are "magically manipulating or altering" so you don't need to include it every time.  Simply saying manipulate, alter, mould, ect. works just fine.

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        (7)   Question: Elemental properties – How do we know whether a given property can be used for physical or spiritual manipulation? We have three options here:

        (i)   An elemental property is either physical or spiritual, but never both.
        (ii)   Some elemental properties are solely physical, some solely spiritual and some both.
        (iii)   Each elemental property has both a physical and a spiritual representation/reflection.

        Choice ii is what we've been using as long as I can remember.  Any property of a given element can be used to create both spiritual and physical effects if applicable.

        Choice 1 is ruled out by the fact that we have spells that use properties in both a physical and spiritual sense.  For example, earth's property of permanence can be increased to make an object physically incapable of moving, but can also be used to help an idea "stick" in an individual's mind or, alternatively, make it resistant to accepting new ideas.

        Choice 3 is ruled out by the fact that some properties can't be both physical and spiritual.  Take for example the properties of light and heat for fire.  It is possible to make an object physically warmer and brighter, but not spiritually so (technically when considered in the spiritual sense, these effects fall under fire's ability to influence emotion).

        For Question 3, I'd look to Artimidor.  He seems to have the firmest grasp on how exactly Quilrosh's fireball works so can best answer your question.

        I'm terrible at languages so I'll leave the terminology problems to someone else.  I would like, however, if in addition to the literal definitions provided, you give a more colloquial definition.  Terms in foreign languages can get a bit confusing and hard to understand when you use metaphor to explain them.

        I see no problem with the terms you created though so I'd be plenty happy if we use those.  
        « Last Edit: 16 June 2011, 10:42:05 by Drasil Razorfang » Logged
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        « Reply #9 on: 16 June 2011, 18:16:52 »

        The "affects" Drasil mentions should be "effects" - you "effect" a change, you "affect" a thing.
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        « Reply #10 on: 16 June 2011, 18:36:07 »

        Coren, that reads well, maybe I get a better grasp of Ximaxian magic one day with your help! ;)

        I wonder, if these axioms are universal. In my attempts to make all consistent and therefore being open for the idea, that the effects of religious spells (bad girl) prayers could at  least partly be explained in Ximaxian terms I asked myself, if these axioms (I-IV) would apply also, or if they could be bend (one focus, one target), but in a more direct way than combining spells.
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        « Reply #11 on: 17 June 2011, 10:00:16 »

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        I wonder, if these axioms are universal. In my attempts to make all consistent and therefore being open for the idea, that the effects of religious spells (bad girl) prayers could at  least partly be explained in Ximaxian terms I asked myself, if these axioms (I-IV) would apply also, or if they could be bend (one focus, one target), but in a more direct way than combining spells.

        I believe that the whole point of establishing these axioms is to create universal rules.  In his opening paragraph, Coren states "The principles we define here should not be bent, but serve as the blueprint for development of spells," which is almost a direct answer your to your question.   :P
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        « Reply #12 on: 17 June 2011, 10:07:42 »

        I would be happy to help create artistic diagrams (from someone else's sketch! )

        This is not only simply and brilliantly written, it's witty and informative.  Coren, I wish I could fill a basin with aura for you to wash your hands up in after finishing this entry, but you will have to do with one more to wear as a spangle on your sage's robe instead.   
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        « Reply #13 on: 17 June 2011, 21:10:53 »

        Heya everyone!

        Thanks for the comments! And wow, Judith! Thank you for the kind words - way too generous! Most of these concepts are Artimidor's - so all credit for their brilliance and elegance should go to him really. I've just tidied up the explanations a bit, and added case studies and examples. Even for these I've drawn on comments from a wide variety of people spread over numerous pages of discussion. I think the only thing I really 'invented' might have been the bow analogy, with which I am rather pleased. I have been wrestling with that concept, trying to find a sensible way to explain it to first myself and to others. After a serendipitous moment in the shower, I think I have finally hit the nail on the head with that bow and arrow (if you will excuse the mixed metaphor!).

        Hmm.. thinking about that again, the bow thing might actually have been Fox's idea. I dimly recall her talking about something to do with guns several years ago. My shower-inspired-faculties must have subconsciously borrowed, medievalised and turned that into a bow!  

        Oh! And thanks for offering to help with the diagrams! Might I invoke my selective memory and pretend not to recall the proviso you have so carefully included in parentheses? That is: would you like to come up with the diagrams too, as a way to consolidate your understanding of the text, as one of my tutors used to say? ;P



        I will address Drasil's uri in detail later. Just a quick update:

        1) One of the reasons the old discussion died out was fatal disagreement as to which (if any) of these axioms should have universal application. To avoid falling into the same trap again, I specifically wanted to start small and limit this entry to Ximaxian elemental magic. Hence the title: "Ximaxian Elemental Magic: the 10 Commandments of Spell-casting". As to the principles being used as blueprint and not being bent, I meant that in the context of elemental magic. Let's not open a can of worms upfront; let's start with a manageable chunk and get the basics of Ximaxian elemental magic established. Then once those are up on the site, we can move on to more controversial topics such as whether we want any of these axioms to apply across the board.

        Quote
        The goal is to develop clear guidelines that magical development (that is: Ximaxian elemental magic) should follow

        2) Hmm.. It seems this was a one-point update after all  buck

        Take care!
        « Last Edit: 17 June 2011, 21:16:17 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

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        « Reply #14 on: 20 June 2011, 03:19:27 »

        Some first notes:

        - A change was made in the first Terminology where "Cár'áll (Aura)" is defined. You say that Cár'áll is "the template behind an entity", which it is actually not. I wrote back then that "Cár'áll is the material for the actual structure or form of an entity".

        The Cár'áll is the sand (substance), a bucket would be something to put the sand in, a form. The bucket would be a template, a blueprint to form e.g. a tower of a sandcastle. (Or think of a "Word" template, where header, title font, standard font etc. are all already arranged.) The arrangement of Cár'áll is what you could call its "elemental alignment".

        - Concerning the question what the following means:

        Quote
        Entities (or parts of entities) are only susceptible to magical manipulation due to such a reflection of said existence within the mind of the caster.

        Let's say it that way: To be able to cast magic on something the caster needs to be able to grasp that thing mentally (=the idea of the thing is reflected in the mage's). Or the caster can, say, decide to focus a spell on three apples and a peach lying in front of him/her, because he/she can picture these things in his mind as an... entity, which he/she will then manipulate in a certain desired direction.

        Doesn't necessarily mean that "anything goes", because the mage needs to be able to pull a thing like this off. If the targeted entity e.g. is a person or an animal the cár'all of that entity cannot be as easily bent, because there's "will" working against it.
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