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Author Topic: Elemental Property Discussion  (Read 28531 times)
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« Reply #90 on: 23 January 2012, 23:53:28 »

I know we keep coming back to this, but I wonder whether we really need to find different names for a) the property b) its physical and c) spiritual aspects. Is it not much more elegant to use to just say 'Movement (physical)' and 'Movement (spiritual)'? I realise we wanted separate names for the sake of clarity, but it seems to me that with all these names floating about the underlying concept is actually becoming even more confusing.
Specifying eg 'movement' as a physical aspect also freezes our imagination in a sense. I can think of several ways 'movement' might be used spiritually:

  • L1: Whirling Thoughts: Movement: S: (+): Stirs up the winds of the mind, rousing a whirlwind of thoughts. The target becomes very confused for a short period of time.
  • L1: Subsiding Thoughts: Movement: S: (-): The raging tempests of the mind subside to a gentle breeze. The target experiences a momentary peace of mind; the thoughts have been stilled. Quiet reigns in the halls of the mind.
  • L1: Subliminal Turbulence: Movement: S: (+): Intensifies the inherent movement in/of the subconscious, causing suppressed or long forgotten things to come out into the open. The effects of this spell are very chaotic: sometimes answers the subconscious mind has been working on will be brought to the surface, causing the pieces of the puzzle to suddenly fit together; the location of a lost item will become instantly clear as the lost memories of where the subject placed it become available; the subject will experience an unexpected burst of inspiration as two concepts never associated with one another will be accidentally brought together by the whirling winds; a pleasant memory will once again emerge; and sometimes disturbing thoughts will become all the more apparent or the memory of some traumatic event brought to the surface from the depths it was buried in, causing great discomfort or in some cases even heavy depression in the target. An extremely difficult spell to master, best left for the higher levels for the difficulties in its control.
  • L1: Stillness of Mind: Movement: S: (-): The turbulence of the mind recedes. The air is calm and quiet. (Query to self: How is this different from Subsiding Thoughts?)
  • L1: Mental Ventilation: Movement: S: (+): “Airs” the mind and in doing so rids it of everything stale and mouldy. Solidified beliefs, hackneyed expressions, overused jokes, habits long past their due expiration dates are all “vented out”. The target may temporarily become more flexible in his actions or convictions and may even experience a newfound creativity with all the encumbering weight shed. Targets often also feel refreshed and renewed; sadly, this lasts as long as a breath of wind in a stuffy cave...
  • L1: Stale Mind: Movement: S: (-): Stifles down all the currents airing the mind. Dust and filth soon start to accumulate in the psyche, causing the target mind to feel very demoralized and “unclean”.

Do we really want to invent three separate names/aspects to make these spells possible?

Over and over, I find myself gravitating to a suggestion Mina has brought up several times during the course of this discussion: Instead of getting bogged down in a complex taxonomy, why not simply say eg 'Movement is a property of Wind, and like all properties has physical and spiritual aspects' and leave it at that?

We have limited resources (both in terms of developers interested in this discussion and in terms of how much time we can individually commit). I'm just wondering if we are creating a lot of unnecessary work for ourselves. I guess I might have started the whole thing by dividing 'flow' into 'fluidity' and 'flexibility'. Six pages in, and not that far from where we started, I just feel like I'm running out of steam.  cry

EDIT: Seven pages in, apparently.

« Last Edit: 23 January 2012, 23:57:35 by Aos » Logged

"Logic in the service of appreciation, and appreciation in the service of reverence, which, in the face of wonders not of our making, is our only proper response." Colin Tudge, The Secret Life of Trees
Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #91 on: 24 January 2012, 00:15:40 »

Note to Aos: If Stillness of Mind is an opposite of Subliminal Turbulence, it makes memories less likely to resurface/slow the speed at which the subconscious works? Useful in treating trauma and also reducing mental agility.


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« Reply #92 on: 30 January 2012, 03:31:25 »

Sorry about the delay. I've been waiting for the Dev Award stuff to die down, as it seems to get a little corybantic on the boards whenever they roll into town.

I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think you're right. My fear, though, is that without some sort of definitions around the spiritual and physical aspects, we'll unintentionally foment confusion. Clarity vs. Transparency vs. Invisibility vs. Perception vs. .... all of these easily get confounded without some sort of cognitive structure to hold them in intelligible order.

We don't have to name the spiritual and physical aspects of properties. I'm fine with that if we want to leave it off. But I really do think we need explanations for the physical--perhaps coupled, as we have now, by examples of spells that fit into such a category.

Clarity: A property of wind that involves seeing through or past.
Clarity (Physical): Related to transparency, where the more the physical aspects of the property are expressed, the more transparent an object becomes, allowing one to see past or through it. Examples: Spell 1, Spell 2, Spell 3
Clarity (Spiritual): Relates to perception and perceiving, where the more the spiritual aspects of the property are expressed, the more easily or clearly someone is able to perceive or understand. Examples: Spell 1, Spell 2, Spell 3

Perhaps it would be good to mine these properties a little. What spells relate to the properties we've already identified? Maybe it may serve as an indication of property definitions and how we're conceiving of these properties.

I would actually argue that "Whirling Thoughts" and "Subliminal Turbulence" may belong to a different element all together--most likely fire. Both of these spells imply chaos, which is not a property of wind. Remember that at its heart, wind is stable and peaceful. We already established, I think, that in Ximax philosophy, as in elven philosophy upon which it is based, stillness = peace. Stillness is deadness--true peace comes from grace, and grace is not achieved in stillness but rather movement. Prisons are still--the constrict your movement. Running streams are peaceful/tranquil. We have to think about this from a Santharian perspective.

I like Mental Ventilation and Stale Mind, though. Maybe we should brainstorm possible spells rather than physical/spiritual aspects?

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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