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Author Topic: Guilds  (Read 2383 times)
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Deklitch Hardin
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« on: 28 February 2012, 19:17:12 »

Here are the thoughts I've had regarding guilds and their formation ... particularly in Ximax, Capital of Xaramon Province in Santharia. I developed a lot of this with regards to the history of Boyzinna Fellowship Hall and subsequently the wider city of Ximax. Ta'lia, please feel free to use/not use/modify as you see fit. :)

Basically, the idea I had was that the guilds of Ximax as they are known/formed today had their currnet locations placed through disaster, namely the magical explosion in the City of Ximax in xxxx a.S. As a result of the explosion, a great number of deaths occurred, and many children were oprhaned, abandoned and/or unwanted. Additionally, the adults of the city were involved in the rebuilding efforts, and their children needed to be somewhere safe. Together, the people of Ximax decided to have their children kept together in various locations in and around the Ximax area, where they could be kept safe, help out with the rebuilding efforts and have a place to eat and sleep. These locations in time became guilds, as the children in the different locations learnt the trades of the people in that area, and the various tradespeople congregated like with like. As these children grew, they developed their skills and became the first group of guild members and leaders in the way that the guilds were now being formed.

Now some general ideas I've had regarding guilds...

The guilds could have a war against each other in places, or act as a safe guard against nobles who seek to tax people who are an independent tradesman ... or the guilds could take action against tradesmen who aren't members of the guild (burning of premises/spreading of rumours/destorying supplies/buying up supplies etc).

Some guilds could be formed by Royal Decree or similar, and those which have this receive special treatment from the crown.

Over the years, the guilds could be dens of corruption and someone needs to come along and clean out the riff raff.

Some guilds could teach apprentices specific skills to do with their guild that mark them out/have uniforms/symbols/coats of arms/emblams/specific equipment.

Guilds could even have formal recognition with the same guild elsewhere, and were formed by the guild elsewhere. E.G. Tanners Guild in Naios could have been formed by tanners who went there from Marcogg and then some of those tanners went to Caelum and formed another Tanners Guild there and then some went from Caelum to Ximax and formed the Tanners Guild there.

As I was aluding to in some of my contributions to both the Ximax academy and city, apprentices could form teams and play those various games (Kickball/BreakItDown/HitBall etc) against the other guilds from the city or further afield.

Guild could believe they are the favoured in the sight of (insert relevant God/dess) and that (insert famed historical guild former here) built the guild hall in that place in accordance with the commands of the deity and as long as the guild stays in that place and follows the rules as laid down by the holy one they will last forever ... but if they stray ... the guild will be destroyed/members scattered.

The guild could believe they are protecting some knowledge/object/power and have formed to better protect that knowledge/object/power. Could be useful for a warrior's guild or similar?

Those suggestions by Artimidor should also be repeated here, so that they don't get lost out of the shoutbox.

Quote
Well, we can have our own reasons why guilds were formed. I guess there were multiple reasons at any rate - e.g. to build a network for people with the same trade in different cities, increase profit and proficiency in the craft, regulate prices, protect workers etc.

So I guess there are really a lot of reasons, various different things coming together.

Anyway ... I hope I've helped and that my ramblings make some sense ... sorry for my lack of proper sentences and my use of ... throughout. :)
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #1 on: 29 February 2012, 03:15:48 »

Thanks for helping brainstorming about that difficult subject, Dek.

The first problem I see here, is your date. The destruction of Ximax was 1480 a.S. , a time where the guilds should have been established long ago - or have ceased to exist again, or were reinvented.

The other ideas you have are quite good once the idea of the guild was born. But first, that idea has to have an origin. Maybe the Fymbels were part of the creation, for at least they are already organised in guilds, though Shaba does not state, when this happens exactly.

But I think I have an idea now. Give me two hours time for Santh and I have a bit more.. :)
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« Reply #2 on: 29 February 2012, 03:44:42 »

I suspect that Dek might have been talking about the locations of the guilds' buildings.  It doesn't work as an explanation for the founding of the current guilds, as quite of the few guilds listed in the entry are stated to have been establishd before the accident.  Although, oddly enough, most seem to have been around for only a few centuries, which is a relatively short time for Santharia.  Well, maybe they replaced guilds that became defunct. 

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The other ideas you have are quite good once the idea of the guild was born. But first, that idea has to have an origin. Maybe the Fymbels were part of the creation, for at least they are already organised in guilds, though Shaba does not state, when this happens exactly.
I'm not sure how it happened in real life, but I'm guessing that guilds could have begun as informal agreements between individual craftsmen regarding things like prices.  When these become sufficiently widespread, maybe they could turn into formal organisations.  And when enough cities start doing this, maybe the guilds would start to coordinate with their counterparts in other cities, and given enough time perhaps even merge with each other.   
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #3 on: 29 February 2012, 04:32:27 »

As I wrote already in the shoutbox: Price regulation definitely must have been one of the key elements why guilds were created. If there isn't a common level how much certain items cost, craftsmen work against each other and the battle is on. Without guilds there's no real way of quality control, which will eventually lead to unsatisfied customers. Guilds can provide some security for its members - money (put together by guild members) can be distributed to pay for apprentices, assure that workers are on locations where they are needed, so its all a great plus in order to organize things. This all increases profit and efficiency - smiths can specialize in certain parts, other smiths can continue to work with these elements and develop own specializations.

Also, if the situation is kept unregulated for a while, things might get out of hand, workers might revolt or leave certain places, and economy goes down the drain. So I guess it's in the interest of the government to have guilds to counter that. Time for a Santhran to make all that law, so that everyone might live long and prosper!  grin
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Mina
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« Reply #4 on: 29 February 2012, 04:57:30 »

That's starting to sound more like trade unions than guilds, particularly the part about workers revolting; guild members were essentially self-employed, rather than employees. 

Guilds were pretty much about monopolies.  By requiring that every craftsman in the city who wanted to produce certain goods to join its associated guild, guilds were able to control the prices of those goods, and thus ensure profits for their members. 
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #5 on: 29 February 2012, 05:12:04 »

Well, probably there's a natural progression eventually towards forming trade unions once guilds are set up. That's the bigger picture which eventually develops, I'd say.
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #6 on: 29 February 2012, 06:12:19 »

That's starting to sound more like trade unions than guilds, particularly the part about workers revolting; guild members were essentially self-employed, rather than employees. 

Guilds were pretty much about monopolies.  By requiring that every craftsman in the city who wanted to produce certain goods to join its associated guild, guilds were able to control the prices of those goods, and thus ensure profits for their members. 

Not only that, but they could also ensure that only quality products were made (so that the prestige of the guild was not brought down). You could not start your own business unless you were considered a master of your profession.
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #7 on: 29 February 2012, 07:59:52 »

Yeah, what Mina said, Ta'lia. I was just talking about what I had developed for them post explosion. What happened pre-explosion, I'm guessing that some of what I suggested could be relevant. I would appreciate it though, if the Tanners' Guild could be formed post explosion.
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