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Author Topic: Manthria Province Overview - work in progress  (Read 5723 times)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« on: 14 March 2012, 05:15:10 »

Ok guys, time for some more action on the organisation front. Before I get to continue with the Vardýnn map, we should have a concept and first example of how a Province Overview should look like on the site. :)

We're far from done here, but I've started a very first rough draft as a start for further discussions, look here:

Manthrian Provinces Overview

The plan is to have an introduction on the province on top, then a map part (full province map to the left, detail to the right), then get down to the sections covering various settlements, and also add own sections for mountains, bodies of water, and what else is left. Ideas on captions are welcome :)

On the map part: This is just a rough draft, so the way we'll realize this will probably change quite a bit.

Full Provinces Map
The left part most likely will be realized as a Flash movie, so that the province names are much better readable than they are now and maybe you can show and hide the borders.

Detailed Map
RIght now I've used a script on the map to the right, which allows moving the map around in the defined area. Try it. If you move over the map you can grab it and drag the map in various directions. At the bottom right there are also zoom in and out buttons, allowing you to di just that. The picture doesn't get any sharper or more detailed, though, when you zoom in, so while zooming in once is great to read a text easier, much more than that doesn't really get you any further. But yeah, the script in general is quite neat. - It has one major disadvantage however at the moment, as the area it operates in is fixed in size. So you cannot resize the window and make it larger. We'll have to see what we can do about this.

Sections
All the entries should be added to one of the sections. They are linked with in-document links (see the top of the entry), so you can go to the Cities section instantly etc.

As far as the settlements are concerned: Fief, Population and Tribes are specified at each entry.  How exactly we put in all the tribes still has to be determined.

A good way BTW to spot that the numbers of inhabitants between Ciosa and Marcogg are quite apart - well, with such overviews we can see such problems easier. These details won't be necessary if the entries deal with parts of the landscape, though.

The population categorizations into cities, towns, villages were taken from this site (there's still a distinction to make between cities and larger cirties, though, which we might just call metropolises perhaps?)

Anyway, here are the categories the site suggests:


Villages
Villages range from 20 to 1,000 people. Most kingdoms will have thousands of them. Villages are agrarian communities within the safe folds of civilization. They provide the basic source of food and land-stability in a feudal system. Usually, a village that supports orchards (instead of grainfields) is called a 'hamlet.' Occasionally, game writers use the term to apply to a very small village, regardless of what food it produces.

Towns
Towns range in population from 1,000-8,000 people. Culturally, these are the equivalent to the smaller American cities that line the interstates. Cities and towns tend to have walls only if they are frequently threatened.

Cities
Cities tend to be from 8,000-12,000 people. A typical large kingdom will have only a few cities in this population range. Centers of scholarly pursuits (the Universities) tend to be in cities of this size, with only the rare exception thriving in a Big City.

Big Cities
Big cities range from 12,000-100,000 people. Some exceptional cities exceed this scale. Some historical examples include London (25,000-40,000), Paris (50,000-80,000), Genoa (75,000-100,000), and Venice (100,000+). Moscow in the 15th century had a population in excess of 200,000!


So yeah, I'd like to go with these suggestions and set things up that way. That's it for now, for a start at least - let me hear if you have other ideas, suggestions, wishes etc.
« Last Edit: 24 March 2012, 23:35:48 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #1 on: 14 March 2012, 06:04:46 »

As an artist I would love to be able see the little circle pics for the entries under the province that are illustrated.  I would also love to be able to tell (just like the other overviews) which entries still need an illustration.
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #2 on: 14 March 2012, 06:41:16 »

Awesomely Awesome Awesomeness Artimidor! An Aura Addition Attribution.

Now that the alliteration is out of my system ... Thanks also for the break up of population sizes between different settlement types ... as a person who likes numbers (hey, I'm a Tribble in Star-Fleet, so I'm good at multiplying ... I have trouble with dividing, however) I find that very useful.

I also like the small circular pictures next to each of the sample settlements you have there, Artimidor.

Are these numbers guidelines for settlement sizes across Caelereth or just for the Santharian Kingdom?
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« Reply #3 on: 14 March 2012, 11:13:45 »

Impressively Interesting Idea!  Intriguingly Insightful, Irritatingly Inspiring.   (as in, now I need to draw you a few town and village pictures for the overview.  Love this!)
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« Reply #4 on: 14 March 2012, 13:50:27 »

Quote
It has one major disadvantage however at the moment, as the area it operates in is fixed in size. So you cannot resize the window and make it larger. We'll have to see what we can do about this.
How about linking to the existing map page here?  Not quite the same as resizing the window, but at least it's larger there. 

Also, any chance the grab and drag feature could be added to that page?  It seems rather useful. 
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #5 on: 15 March 2012, 04:05:43 »

Thanks for the praise guys, but there's still a lot of work to do... ;)

@Seeker: Of course the circle pictures will be part of these overviews like at all the other overview entries, and empty circles will be used at locations where we don't have any pictures yet. Entry "overviews" can also be added here even though the corresponding entries themselves don't exist yet, e.g. to give people the opportunity to find these places which still need to have the full entry written. Just like the empty circles are an indicator for the artist that there's no picture yet for the entry. Right now there's no clear indication however to distinguish a written from an unwritten entry (see e.g. one of the overviews I made this update) - those entries that have no working link are not done yet (e.g. Bardavos Grape, Maid's Ease and Winge Cherry). So I think we might introduce something to make that clear as by looking at it with a single glance.

@Dek: I guess we should refer to the sizes of towns and villages etc. throughout the whole of Caelereth in the same fashion, otherwise it gets confusing, eh?

@Judy: Don't mind to fill these overviews wth lots and lots of pics... lol

@Mina: The script is till in evaluation and has some problems like the ones I mentioned (fixed size!). In the meantime I already got it to work with the option to resize the section over the entire width of the screen, but then  I cannot place an overview picture next to it. Doesn't work iniside a table. Can't display a border around it then as well. So still lots of questions - we'll see how that goes. It might also be an option to try to use a customizable Flash component. We'll see. Once I know for sure what to use we can figure out what to do with the other version of the map. - So one after the other! :)

@Everyone: Another idea I had is to add the resources e.g. to the Mountains section, where we don't need to specify a population (well, maybe only to Thergerim regions). But that way you'd only need this Overview page, search e.g. for gold on that page and find immediately all locations where gold is mentioned :) - How about this?
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« Reply #6 on: 17 March 2012, 17:04:15 »

Small update on this one: All existing Manthrian entries are now included in the overview along with pictures and proper sections were established. If you have idea how to rearrange sections, please let me know! The definitions of Metropolises, cities and towns in terms of inhabitant requirements are still up for debate - I made some adjustments there, but they aren't final.

Here's the link again:
Manthrian Provinces Overview

Not included as of yet are Fief, Population, Tribes and Resources specifications - this requires to go through every entry in detail, sometimes it's necessary to create these values first or change them according to the direction we want to go (see Cities/Towns numbers).

Also left out entirely for now is the map. It looks like we can't get around doing both maps (overview and detail) in Flash as JavaScript is too unreliable and reacts differently on various browsers. So I have to try a few things first to get this sorted out.
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« Reply #7 on: 17 March 2012, 19:07:08 »

Firstly, great work Artimidor.

Secondly, two comments.

1) Based on the current population size, Marduran, the settlement you have listed under towns looks as though it should be under cities.

2) Isn't the Magical Academy of Ximax is in Xaramon Province, not Manthria Province?

Thirdly aura and thanks for your continuing efforts to bring more order to the Compendium.
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #8 on: 18 March 2012, 00:13:40 »

The Academy meant is of course the Tethinrhim Archery Academy - I've fixed this now.

I've also adjusted the population sizes a bit as well, because we wouldn't have any towns at all at the moment - that happens when we don't have a clear concept behind these numbers. Mostly people had more modern numbers in mind when writing the entries. So it looks like this now:

Metropolises - 25.000+
Cities - 10.000-25.000
Towns - 1.500-10.000
Villages and Hamlets - 20-1.500

However, I haven't changed any entries yet according to these numbers. Because are a quite a few changes to make that work (e.g. adjust Marduran to 10.000 or Marcogg to around 25.000 and the same with Ciosa to name just a few). There's lots of work to be done here still.
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« Reply #9 on: 18 March 2012, 18:40:23 »

Ok, guys... I guess I've found a very elegant solution now for our map zoom and pan problem, look here (make sure to refresh the page - you should see two maps at the top of the page):

Manthrian Provinces Overview

New is the handling of the map to the right - the map on the left will eventually also made into a Flash movie. The solution at the right map is done now with Flash, where you can zoom in and pan seamlessly at your heart's desire - and the movie also resizes properly with the window. You can accomplish this in three ways:

- Either by using the buttons at the bottom right (the "x" gets you back to the default view when the whole thing loaded).
- For panning you can also use the hand and drag the map around, and you can also zoom in and out with the mousewheel.
- There's even keyboard support: The cursor keys move the map left, right, up and down and + and -.

Theoretically the component also supports to use of Flash files instead of pictures as is the case now. This means it might be even possible to make parts of the map clickable and then e.g. link to the description of place, or use tooltip texts. But's that's something for the long term. Let's see what you think of this solution for now - I'm quite happy with it :)
« Last Edit: 18 March 2012, 19:23:02 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #10 on: 18 March 2012, 21:20:42 »

Wow! Impressive! But with you doing it, I shouldn't be surprised, Artimidor. :)

Great work!
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« Reply #11 on: 19 March 2012, 00:38:51 »

Looks really good, Arti. If you want to find the quickest way from Raugsalen to the Rusty Kettle Springs, your map is more useful than "google maps". And more beautiful, too.
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« Reply #12 on: 19 March 2012, 05:56:10 »

Looks really good, Arti. If you want to find the quickest way from Raugsalen to the Rusty Kettle Springs, your map is more useful than "google maps". And more beautiful, too.

If we had a like button here, I'd 'like' your post, Master Anfang. I guess I'll just have to give you an aura instead.

Dek
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« Reply #13 on: 19 March 2012, 12:03:22 »

(likes the idea and auries everyone above)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #14 on: 24 March 2012, 23:35:26 »

Update! In the meantime I've continued working on the Provinces Overview, and it now features an introduction and all the Fief/Duchy details of every entry, some resources details, along with a bunch of corrected numbers of inhabitants which were also already adjusted in the entries, making e.g. Marcogg a metropolis of 40.000 and Ciosa was reduced to 35.000 etc.

See here (make sure to refresh the page):
Manthrian Provinces Overview

So the main thing that is still missing is to change the Duchies/Fiefs map on the left to a Flash version, where the texts are readable and where the viewer maybe should be able to zoom in on a specific fief, see the borders and main cities - and if he/she wants to see the details then can have a closer look at the details to the right. I'll see what I can come up with here.
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