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Author Topic: Thoughts about Aeruillin Religions....  (Read 3774 times)
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« on: 20 June 2004, 13:44:00 »

Thoughts about Aeruillin Religions and some inconsistency within the tribes-relations.

Hello, my queen Artemis. I know, you want to have your Aeolian Religion spread widely over Aeruillin, the more tribes follow her, the better ;)

I would however try to do some diversions.

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The people of Aeruillin are isolated from much of  Caelereth, especially the southern tribes, who have little or no direct trading relations with the northern continents. This has led them to develop their own beliefs and religions in the course of time. Avá and Her Dream, the common elven belief in Sarvonia, or the myths of the twelve Aviaría, in which the humans of the north have based their religion are but legends to most of the Aeruillian people.


Taking this into account, then probably all tribes which you now called native , who might have been the first immigration wave after the disaster the Sanhtarian elves call „The Burning of the Tree of Life“ (has to be decided still if we want to have it this way), have developed the Aeoliran religion. That would make sense, if they were the first to meet the Flying Race (which developed on Aeruillin). The flying race could have developed in the meantime as well. Backwards. A part of this race could have been far more developed than those one can encounter nowadays. An idea: The whole „nobility, the advanced and farer developed“ of this flying race fell victim to a disease  the new arriving people from Sarvonia brought with them.(Only, we the developer know this) What remained till today, are the badly educated lower level of this races, the less intelligent part of the race. They could still be farer advanced and more intelligent than the humans/elves. This nobility which died out inspired the humans - the Aeoliran Religion developed.

So, we have to decide, which tribes came when - first wave or second?

Let‘s have a look at the tribes and start in the west:

Zarathians: I would propose, that they migrated from Nybelmar, not from Sarvonia, quite late, second wave, for a change. They brought their religion with them and kept it for quite a time.
The Hjoria could now have fled not just because of the tyranny, but because they converted to the Aeoliran Religion meanwhile (missionaries from Shan‘thai).
I would propose for sometimes in the future, that you rewrite the religion of the Zarathians. Take the religion depending on the tribe we choose for them(the nybelmarian), and bend it, add some elements from the Aeoliran, maybe even from the Santharian, create an religion influenced by many things - they are good traders, and religions find there way to other continents with the trade.

Next the Tharians. As you describe it in the Ordians entry, the avennorian came and took the power in Shan‘Thai. In Shan‘Thai the religion present for a long time already is the Aeoliran.

My proposal now: Let there be a weird emperor in Shan‘Thai, who establishes slavery and manages to be seen as a god-king - abandoning his own religion (the Santharian) and oppressing the Aeoliran.
All the peoples fleeing Shan‘Thai and becoming the Ordians, Rhulrans, Cholians keep their old religion. Whereas you(or whoever writes shan‘Thai down) could establish in Shan‘Thai the god-king-slavery society Artimidor wishes to be there (at least it was his proposal when Gean wanted to do Shan‘Thai.You could even consider this for another port town in the north as well (Shan Chahalynth), maybe here with an female god-king.

My new two related tribes might have a different religion then, belonging to the the first immigration wave and having met therefore the Flying Race-Nobles as well. so I could try to develop a religion parallel to the Aeoliran. I assume , there was loose  contact between the first settlers of Aeruillin, so that my religion will have a lot in common with yours. well, in the beginning I will say, that they are believing in your religion, only if I have time enough to develop something different, we can invent a shisma ;)

I will think about the more eastern tribes later, when I integrate them into the map.

More to come...

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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Artemis
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« Reply #1 on: 21 June 2004, 06:29:00 »

There are a lot of thoughts!!!

Let's see if I can answer some...

With regards to the religion firstly, I had planned for there to be one or two others apart from Aeoliran, especially in the East, more minor ones. However, in the North and West and South of the continent, Aeoliran is dominant, mainly due to the Thairans influence. This tribe is going to be an ongoing project for me, as they are so incredibly important, they've spawned tribes, wiped out tribes, the trade is vital for other tribe etc... however, they are fanatical about their religion, in historical times more so however. This is going off toipc though...

The Zarathians - good idea. They were the last port town to be set up, so I had always immagined them as second wave immigration. When we decide what Nybelmar tribe they have come from, we could take a few traditions from there, add in some Aeoliran and make a mix of the two different religions - perhaps they've ignored some Gods and included others although don't forget that religion is not so important to this tribe anyhow, since they are so focussed on their trading. The Hjoria idea is good, although isn't it slightly repetitive having the Hjoria leave the Zarathians because of religion, when the Azhorhria did the same?

Ermmm...the natives, well, I guess we need to work out if they were there when the lands split, or if they were part of an immigration. I suppose Arti could answer this question for us... because, if there were humans there when the lands split, then no doubt that they would have had contact with the flying race, and the Aeoliran religion could have developed from there on as you suggested. The flying race however I wanted to have a new, totally different religion, not Aeoliran, so would this work? A thought - perhaps the nobility could have had Fae-like wings, and those under them bird-like wings or something. The difference in wing structure marked them out from each other or something. And so when these nobility with the Fae-like wings died the native humans were so primitive, they believed they ascended to heaven or something, and that was the start of the Aeoliran religion... ARGH... are you following my thoughts, because I'm not!!!

Back to the Thairans - well, your proposal would work with a few adjustments... I've always seen these people as fanatical and with little tolerance for those who are not Aeoliran - which is why they wiped out the Lyth'Yashmagor dwarves, and (in new plans of mine ;) ) attacked the Loth Melroy elves for the same reasons... God-king... perhaps not so much as that, but a messenger for the Gods-king? I had this idea that the whole of Shan'Thai was converted to Aeoliran by a king who took a native wife into his harem, and she converted him, and he ordered the whole city to change, or perhaps some miraculous event happened...

My idea for Shan'Chahalynth was that it was going to be a dodgy, seedy port, the smallest of the lot, so anything is possible there - the Arkh is going to be a real tyrant, really nasty, although religion there really isn't that important. So the whole God-king concept would work better there - I think that the Thairans would view a God-king as a bit of a blasphemy, messenger to the Gods-king would work fine.

More to come later, I'm suffering from thought overload ;) .

:D  :D  :D  

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #2 on: 21 June 2004, 14:28:00 »

With regards to the religion firstly, I had planned for there to be one or two others apart from Aeoliran, especially in the East, more minor ones.
Where? There are not many people left - maybe the Nytherians  

However, in the North and West and South of the continent, Aeoliran is dominant, mainly due to the Thairans influence. This tribe is going to be an ongoing project for me, as they are so incredibly important, they've spawned tribes, wiped out tribes, the trade is vital for other tribe etc... however, they are fanatical about their religion, in historical times more so however. This is going off toipc though...

The Zarathians - good idea. They were the last port town to be set up, so I had always immagined them as second wave immigration. When we decide what Nybelmar tribe they have come from, we could take a few traditions from there, add in some Aeoliran and make a mix of the two different religions - perhaps they've ignored some Gods and included others although don't forget that religion is not so important to this tribe anyhow, since they are so focussed on their trading. The Hjoria idea is good, although isn't it slightly repetitive having the Hjoria leave the Zarathians because of religion, when the Azhorhria did the same?
 Well, at least on earth it happened very often. There could be a difference, maybe this would even explain it: The Hjoria fled, without the Zarathian tyrann wanting or knowing it, as they did already now. With this in mind, they expelled  the Azhorhia, knowing their own fate... Seems to be a kind of tradiotion there...


Ermmm...the natives, well, I guess we need to work out if they were there when the lands split, or if they were part of an immigration. I suppose Arti could answer this question for us... because, if there were humans there when the lands split, then no doubt that they would have had contact with the flying race, and the Aeoliran religion could have developed from there on as you suggested.

Well, Art would be no help there, because this question is in the flux, not entirely decided yet. I tend to the the cradle theory - all developed in one region in midle Sarvonia and there were several migrations after the ‚burning of the tree‘ disaster. My idea was, that the first imigration wave had contact with these upper class flying race (with contact I mean, that they could see them, not really talk with them. They are after all very different) These first humans brought with them a disease or where somehow the reason,  that the „nobles“died out. But they arranged themselves with the rest of the flying race, and developed the Aeolian religion.  How the flying race did really look like, doesn#t matter here. They don‘t need to look like humans - they got however an human appearance in the course of time, because the humans tend to adapt things to their liking


The flying race however I wanted to have a new, totally different religion, not Aeoliran, so would this work?
Of course, I didn‘t mean, that the humans took over the religion of the Flying race, but invented their own, because of the miraculous, mysterious sights they had. Don‘t think to far in this direction of developing the religion of the flying race. Have always in mind, what for information can possibly find their way to the center of Santharia. surely not what the „Nobles „ of the flying race believed, that will be probably lost, but only what their descendants TODAY belief. And I think, it will be difficult to get this information, because it is something, which somebody has to tell you , which you can‘t observe, apart from some rituals maybe - and there you might not know the meaning. you have to think entirely different here - please not just another human religion. Maybe they thought of themselves of being  gods?

A thought - perhaps the nobility could have had Fae-like wings, and those under them bird-like wings or something. The difference in wing structure marked them out from each other or something. And so when these nobility with the Fae-like wings died the native humans were so primitive, they believed they ascended to heaven or something, and that was the start of the Aeoliran religion... ARGH... are you following my thoughts, because I'm not!!!
Yeah, but I wouldn‘t make them too different, maybe all have fae like wings, but the one are brightly coloured, the other of a dull grey. And again, they don‘t have actually looked exactly this way (like faewings), the humans made them more beautiful and actually different from how they looked - just as they needed it.


Back to the Thairans - well, your proposal would work with a few adjustments... I've always seen these people as fanatical and with little tolerance for those who are not Aeoliran - which is why they wiped out the Lyth'Yashmagor dwarves, and (in new plans of mine ;)  ) attacked the Loth Melroy elves for the same reasons... God-king... perhaps not so much as that, but a messenger for the Gods-king? I had this idea that the whole of Shan'Thai was converted to Aeoliran by a king who took a native wife into his harem, and she converted him, and he ordered the whole city to change, or perhaps some miraculous event happened...

 Well, my question was - did the Avennorians take over the new religion? That happens sometimes, but first I would say, they kept there old one. Then the Ordians fled, because they wanted to preserve their old, aeolian one along with the wish to escape slavery(like with the Zarathian later - no fear, history is repetive . After they were gone, this god-king-servant (could have a rank inbetween, then it would work) married this oh so beautiful wife with unsurpassed qualities in bed :lol  , and she was devout to the aeoliran religion. there we are. Then you can war the other tribes, which have the Aeoliran religion as well (or another), but don‘t believe in the god-like rank of the emperor of shan‘thai..


My idea for Shan'Chahalynth was that it was going to be a dodgy, seedy port, the smallest of the lot, so anything is possible there - the Arkh is going to be a real tyrant, really nasty, although religion there really isn't that important. So the whole God-king concept would work better there - I think that the Thairans would view a God-king as a bit of a blasphemy, messenger to the Gods-king would work fine.

Well, the nasty tyrann  part is then valid today? Or at any time?

ok, back to the map...

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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« Reply #3 on: 23 June 2004, 00:36:00 »

I won't be able to give any detailed replies until Thursday (my day off) I'm afraid, as currently the only internet accesss I have is for 15min every morning in the Staff Room... unfortunately, the staff arrive (GASP!) and are in here most of the day, including my time off during the day.

:D  :D  :D  

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« Reply #4 on: 23 June 2004, 03:15:00 »

No problem! As long as you can launch your bet! :lol  

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« Reply #5 on: 23 June 2004, 08:22:00 »

I can help you with the Zarathians, though we need to decide first about their origins. As a starter where are you going to place them in the timeline?

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« Reply #6 on: 23 June 2004, 11:40:00 »

The Santerrans are supposed to go colonial in the younger history of their existance. That shouldn't happen before 0 a.S. though mainly because the lack of decent naval tech(safe, seaworthy ship hulls, navigation) until then.

My current idea concerning Stratanians and Santerrans als involves that both sides only could reach the Crimson islands with relative ease and the contact broke for some reason afterwards. Then for another few centuries the ocean was not crossed again because there were no ships with the capabilities to do so from one continent to the other.


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« Reply #7 on: 24 June 2004, 00:51:00 »

Thanks for the input!

Well, the colonisation could take place quite late, but  we need time enough for two additional tribes to evolve, which sprang from them, the Hjoria and the Azerrhia. Are 1500 years enough for the developement of three tribes?

Koldar this belongs in another thread, but I need contact to Nybelmar, at least with a few ships, for Varcopas, otherwise this town will die.

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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« Reply #8 on: 25 June 2004, 14:10:00 »

Hehehe... you read my thoughts Talia, my 15mins gives me enough time to place my bet!

Anyhow... I posted in the "Zarathians from Nybelmar" thread about the Zarathians... with regards to the other two tribes, what we will have to do is have them split very early on, so that they have time to set up and establish themselves. This way it could work, and we also now have a nice link to where they came from. The Zarathians will need a little tweaking, and the Hjoria more so (they need one anyway, because they were written when I had far different idea in mind) but it all good. And, for the first time in any entry, I'll be able to put some DATES (YES!) with it!

Back to our discussion Talia - Only a few tribes left, but I was thinking of a new one for the Flyers, and some additional Gods in the religions in Qelkanacor and Shan'Furrionis (a Goddess of Fairness and Liberality, something like that, one that is second only to Nakashi, or possibly a new religion totally for Qelkanacor.)

A tradition with the expelling of people... yeah, I get nitpicky sometimes. It'll be fine...

So it's not actually decided whether the Tree of Life did or did not exist? Like whether Avá really exists... or even if it matters if she exists? Eeeek. I don't want to get involved with that! The thing is - I don't know this - is the tree of life myth associated with the Avaria religion, or something associated with Caelereth itself and nothing to do with Avá? Does that question make sense? I really don't know much about this sort of stuff. I was wondering. As I do.

The flying race... I had hoped that the flyers and the humans would co-habit peacefully until they were disrupted and driven away... so perhaps the first immigration wave, or the "natives" who were there already became admirers of the flyers, and they acted as servants of sorts to the flyers, out of wanting to, not because they were forced, worshipping them almost, slowly developing the religion. Then, along came the Avennorians etc, who were afraid of this new, flying race, gained control of the primitive and naive "natives" and poisoned their minds against them, and so they joined forces to erradicate the flyers. They were slowly driven down south, as the new race had never experienced war and fighting before, so were slaughtered. Some humans did remain loyal with the flyers, eventually forming protective settlements like Qelkanacor etc etc etc. They survive however, by grouping together the few scattered who are left under one person and hold their own in the south of the continent. The agressors realise they can't get any further, the war ends. That was an idea I had had for how they get driven down south. I hope I have explained it clearly. I'm terrible at explaining.

Yes, sorry, for not answering when you first asked, the Avennorians were converted to the the Aeoliran religion, keeping their old one for a bit as would be natural, and I think that having the God-King-Servant (;) ) being converted by lady with unsurpassed qualities in bed is a fantastic idea. :) . I can sense that being a great story.

Yes - Shan'Chahlynth is still a place with a nasty tyrant. Well, I want it to be. It's oging to be a nasty place hehehe...

*PHEW*

I hope I have made sense. I know I keep asking this, but I do tend to waffle when writing such answers.

If there is anything else I have missed, give me a slap on the wrist and point me to it. I have better access to the internet over the weekend, as there are no staff around, so I should be able to post quicker. :) .

:D  :D  :D  

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #9 on: 25 June 2004, 15:12:00 »

Too tired now to answer... i managed to do an entry in one day, though it needs adjusting and finetuning.. woohoo.
tomorow I will start the final Aeruillin map, this is just work, no art, so it should be done till next update!

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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