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Author Topic: history issues  (Read 1365 times)
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Smith in Exile
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« on: 08 May 2003, 03:42:00 »

well, to begin I will signal a mistake in the Nybelmar entry: with the new name of the world a strange formulation occured there -
"Nybelmar is the third largest continent in the world of world of Caelereth, located in the southwestern area of the world chart."


Anyway, I have several questions about the history of east Nybelmar.

First, when was the continent "discovered" by sarvonians? Related to this, we have a mention about several sarvonian myths that mention Nybelmar (as the Lands of the Mystical West), now how those myths appeared and what are they stating?

You mention three "Shadows" in the rough timeline, one of them (the second) connected to the elves. The third Shadow you spoke of was connected with the Year of Darkness. Then at the end of the timeline you also mention rumours of a new Shadow rising in the west. Since we agreed to name Murmillion Kingdom as [Second} Shadow [Realm], more light on this matter would help me...

The largest Murmillion Kingdom was that which defeated the first empire of Korweyn. You say that their territories extended to the Eypesh river. This river is also the site of the decisive battle that ended Korweynian rule in the south. Now I have a question, if Korweyn territories were extending more to the west of Eypesh, why Murmillions didn't claimed them as a province aswell (after that battle)?
Also, would there be a problem if we consider the Dark elves as Murmillion allies in this war? (this could help developing a nice strategy description for this war - apart from the subversive actions of Arkhaeon Guild in Korweyn)

Asthalon The Black dissapeared with his army in the Burning Mountains you say (after they defeated Murmillions in the Year of Darkness). Do you have some thoughts about this event? (I figure that is related to the myth about the stones, could be a good point to integrate this myth in Murmillion or Santerran entries? - I haven't mentioned it in Murmillion works until now because of the way you presented it: seemed like an "external" myth, something that other people than Murmillions believe)

You also mention an attack on Sarvonia (with a question mark though), is that concering Aca-Santerra? Is it more than just one of your thoughts/proposals (I figure that input from sarvonian developpers is needed too) and what's the story?

Not so historical questions:
In the Nybelmar entry is mentioned that the eastern part of the continent is mainly arid - I thought that it was the west part mainly arid :S ....
Is R'unor a part of Nybelmar? (through history and culture - I know they are related to Loreney, but my image was that they were pretty much something else than Nybelmar; I am asking this because of my guild entry: R'unor has a guild of Librarians, but they are pretty much different from what I thought of Arkhaeon, still some "issues"/fights between those two guilds can be conceived - taking place in Fullwanooth for instance...)
For the  Murmillion cities entry. There is a place irl that could use as a model for a special monument/site. In Indonezia there is  pyramidal buddhist temple that is "presented" as an initiation method - the temple is covered in engraved pictures, and the neofit must interpret them all. It has "levels" which means that there is an examination taking place after completing each level. Now we don't have to use this as is, but the base idea seemed to me very interesting and appealing - so maybe I can think of such a structure (not a pyramid, definetely), replacing the pictures with glyphs, and maybe tweaking the "initiation thing" a little and relate it to the Cults of Mari or Arkhaeon Guild?

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #1 on: 08 May 2003, 04:21:00 »

Phew, many questions. I don't know if I can answer them all, as it is possible that various thoughts and versions conflicted while I was thinking about the place of certain nations...

Quote:
First, when was the continent "discovered" by sarvonians? Related to this, we have a mention about several sarvonian myths that mention Nybelmar (as the Lands of the Mystical West), now how those myths appeared and what are they stating?


The Stratanians opened the first trade routes via the "Crimson Islands" which were colonized by Nybelmarian before. I indeed thought that the name Crimson could be a reference to the treasures the Stratanians get from there to prosper. They probably brought the first news from another continent beyond the ocean but also sew frightening tales to keep the location and routes to there secret. The war with Milkengrad should be seen under the impression to protect their exclusive trade rights, too, as Milkengrad started to endanger the Stratanian monopole with a growing merchant fleet.


Quote:
You mention three "Shadows" in the rough timeline, one of them (the second) connected to the elves. The third Shadow you spoke of was connected with the Year of Darkness. Then at the end of the timeline you also mention rumours of a new Shadow rising in the west. Since we agreed to name Murmillion Kingdom as [Second} Shadow [Realm], more light on this matter would help me...


Hmmm... The elves will go through a time of unrest. The darkelves will be the third Shadow, but after the Korweynite empire fell. However, I haven't thought about this closer.

Quote:
The largest Murmillion Kingdom was that which defeated the first empire of Korweyn. You say that their territories extended to the Eypesh river. This river is also the site of the decisive battle that ended Korweynian rule in the south. Now I have a question, if Korweyn territories were extending more to the west of Eypesh, why Murmillions didn't claimed them as a province aswell (after that battle)?


Well, they might've tried but in a whole I think the Korweynite-Murmillion wars were more a holy war to them than a regional conflict for territory. Thus the Murmillions simply were not prepared or thinking of what to do when their enemy is defeated. But I also added in their tribe entry that they suffered from own problems, too and might have not the power to consequently extending their rule. However Murmillion lords could still be taking over the places, I just don't think the whole kingdom did by annexion.

Quote:
Also, would there be a problem if we consider the Dark elves as Murmillion allies in this war? (this could help developing a nice strategy description for this war - apart from the subversive actions of Arkhaeon Guild in Korweyn)


At least the Kaŭr were incapable to help the Korweynites. Thus there could be trouble already going on, yes. Darkelven conspiracies under the mask of Kaŭrrhem friendship could have destroyed these bonds.

Quote:
Asthalon The Black dissapeared with his army in the Burning Mountains you say (after they defeated Murmillions in the Year of Darkness). Do you have some thoughts about this event? (I figure that is related to the myth about the stones, could be a good point to integrate this myth in Murmillion or Santerran entries? - I haven't mentioned it in Murmillion works until now because of the way you presented it: seemed like an "external" myth, something that other people than Murmillions believe)


It's actually a Santerran myth. The Murmillions might have heard similar stories or have their own variant. The main point behind Asthalon is that the Santerran aquired the Murmillion goddess of Mari and integrated the danger of this "Unspoken" into their religion (they believe in two arch gods that must never return or the world will end)

Quote:
You also mention an attack on Sarvonia (with a question mark though), is that concering Aca-Santerra? Is it more than just one of your thoughts/proposals (I figure that input from sarvonian developpers is needed too) and what's the story?


Is currently only an idea. It is based on the thought that Santerrans are very spiritual in their decisions. When the prophecies tell them to attack a kingdom at the end of the world they just do. And the Highkings though obeying to the priesthood still seek honour and glory and try to expand their rule. With them being one of the major sea powers it was just fitting to eventually seek trouble esspecially from their point of view Santharia looks weak.

Don't know, currently I consider writing up the last 300-500 years of history as a start point. This should help in the sense that the present state of Eastern Nybelmar is pretty clear (Korweyn and Aca-Santerra being the only real major players) from there one could consider what happened that made them such and how where the historical events already mentioned influencing that?


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #2 on: 10 May 2003, 09:27:00 »

ok, thnx, that helps ;)

but what about the non-historical issues? (they could help me in designing the cities entry and also the guild entry)

oh, and I reviwed Mari a little and posted it in the Religion forum.

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #3 on: 25 May 2003, 10:41:00 »

R'unor lies north of Nybelmar, possibly on a ridge that spawned a series of islands there and is somewhere  between Nybelmar and Akdor. As such the R'unorians challenge the Santerran navy. But I'm not so sure the R'unorians would be connected any closer to Nybelmar. They have their influence on the northern territories though and will also aquire much of their prosperity by making trade between Akdor and Nybelmar possible.

About the arcitectural idea. I'd maybe also consider the mountainous terrain and their habit of building fortified cities into the rock. Great freestanding stone structures would be a very different approach to their usual housing habits. I'd thus seek some combination that maybe  explains this better. Otherwise the complexity of such temple buildings from Asia would very well suit them though I wouldn't think it replaces their glyph system which would remain their way to communicate this religious ideas.

But I think your ideas are all very well thought-through so just go ahead. it is not a matter of wether it works or not but just a matter of taste. My idea about caves is not some ultimate thought through solution but just a quick draft thus replaceable.

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