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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #15 on: 12 August 2003, 16:30:00 »

Concerning the timeline. How about fleshing it out with details from the Murmillion perspective now? Or should we first adjust the history as it is a bit? When we have the murmillion and the Korweynite story of the first age we can go from there. The Kaŭr will be somewhere inbetween on the side of the Korweynites not bothering too much about some humans but still with great hidden powers. I think they might be involved with fighting the Chyrakisth and rebuilding the lands and thus just appear where they see fit.

For the Dark Age (between the two Empires) I guess we should start with what happened to the Murmillion and then what happened to Anis Anpagan and last how Korweyn rose again.

If I don't know a decent name I try to think up a certain meaning and go from there. In the case of the early Mumrillion we might assume that Styrásh was seen as a high language and their name adopts a certain word? It at least helps to find a sound that suits one.

What I stumbled over was: to tranform,   leorán
Leondrin, Lermen. Leoranni.

It woiuld sound like a meaning they'd giove themselves though I'm incapable to form  a futura or anything. Of course there might be other more approbiate meanings. :)  


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #16 on: 13 August 2003, 18:43:00 »

name:
that sounds good enough but check this out.
they were also calling themselves in a manner pretty close to "Murmillions" but independent of the santerran or the korweynite meanings. Actually Santerrans and Korweynites just searched in their vocabulary a closer word to what Murmillions were saying about themselves. So actually (and because originally their ancestors had also elves among them) "Murmillion" would be the human transcription of the elvish mor-melor (deep shadow). I think it makes sense.

history:
I will post now the places entry in the places forum so you might check that out too. the history that I wrote there is just to give a sort of an image about them but is nothing settled and actually I would be happy if the entry will be integrated without the history part.
But yes, we should sketch the Murmillion perspective now and then we should go into Anis-Anpagan (and so I would get a start for their entries too)... But first we need to focus a bit on Menemronn (so I can start working on an entry about him and so you can finish the Korweyn religion entry as well)

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #17 on: 14 August 2003, 03:51:00 »

ok, Menemronn first. I'll take the history in your places entry and sort it in the timeline eventually adjusting the various entries to fit to each other. (The korweynite and Murmillion point of view should not contradict each other in a history book afterall)

Mormelor. >Sounds ok, maybe the name ultimately derived from Kaŭr sources then. Adopted by the Murmillion who thought it as fitting and honourable. :)  


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #18 on: 14 August 2003, 10:09:00 »

yes, that was my thought also ;)

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #19 on: 16 August 2003, 18:30:00 »

Well, first this is how I see the territorial disputes.

I mean I always try to walk in their shoes (for both of them), thinking about what would I do in that position. So here is the situation:

If I were to be a Santerran strategist my situation would be like this: I just escaped "by a few inches" the total destruction of anything that was built on the mainland - as there are no doubts about this, given the description we offered until now for Murmillions and for their reasons for which they started this war, if they would have won it, no Santerran would have been left alive on the main land. So I would be in a "phew, that was close" state of mind and then I would watch the Santerran armies pushing Murmillions into their mountain strongholds.
Santerrans never tried to make a final push into Ehebion though, so I had o think of a possible reason why. I found this reason in the only two ways of entering Ehebion, both of them fiercely guarded and excellent defensive positions (The Gates of Ehebion - the fortified mountain pass, and The Purple Tower - guarding a long sinuating road, full of dangers itself, not really fit for a nice army march). So, again, as a Santerran strategist what would I do? The best choice is to make somehow as to prevent Murmillions from getting any ideas of trying to get back their territories. As long as they stay in Ehebion things can go peacefully. Thus the city of Lhindal is essential. Holding that city would bring things to a prolonged stalemate.
Besides that, there is also the "divide and conquer" method. Adopt Mari in Santerran pantheon and promise wars and loot to the Moon Hills Murmillions. Make them your allies. Make them despise or hate those that fled into Ehebion.

The walk in Murmillion shoes revolves around religion so here is the second problem.

Just before the Year of Darkness signs of a split were to be seen among Murmillions. The Year of Darkness brought two different views for them. One view, supported by the official Arkhaeon Guild (the "untrue" one) stated that the Unspoken is going to "awake" bringing them salvation. The Arkhaeon exiles (the "true" Guild actually) spoke against this view warning that the Unspoken cannot be seen as a god, Mari is their goddess and that's all, the Unspoken is a principle. So basically their religion splits in a monotheistic one (the Free Murmillions) and a dualistic one (Santerran Murmillions). Also the Free Murmillions (those that will become "Free Murmillions" actually) emphasize the role of Menemronn, while the others are just considering him a historical character, a "general" that was defeated and killed (whatever this "killing" might have turned to be) - Menemronn cannot be a god, no matter his deeds, thus he cannot be considered more than he deserves. This would result in a less importance of the Ehebion mountains for the future Santerran Murmillions (the long period of domination in eastern Korweyn also has its role in developing such an attitude).
Now the Year of Darkness ends and the war is lost. How would the future Santerran Murmillions would interpret this? Well, they will continue to believe that the Darkness was indeed a sign of the Unspoken, but the deeds of that Year was also meant to happen. They were meant to loose, as actually the Unspoken (as he is after all the Creator, the "opener" of paths) was showing them the way. He brought them to the gates of Altyr yet he refused to give them the city. This is a sign. Also the prophecy of Theodunn had its part in all this. So the Unspoken has showing them their destiny, and their destiny was to be found with Santerrans from now on. The fact that they adopted Mari also was confirming this interpretation. Thus they put away their dreams about Ehebion and adopted a new way, the Santerran way - the promise of more wars against Korweyn must had meant a lot for them also; not to mention the Santerran stories about the lands over the seas...
For the Free Murmillion the situation is pretty clear, facing a total chaos and internal fightings they saved all they could and fled to their comfortable and safe homes in Ehebion. Lhindal being hostile, they also gave up to any further domination claims and become quite reclusive. Their religion was still focused on Mari, with the emphasis on Menemronn - in time they even adopted the formula "Menemronn was the Chosen of Coor" although, obviously they look down on the elven beliefs thinking that elves don't really understand nothing - although they are the closest to the "fundamental truth", which is of course only in their possesion.


Now given all these, here is just one more thing: how the whole religious system of Mari looks like.
1. There is a Free Murmillions' Mari - the one that is described in the entry actually
2. There is a Santerran Murmillions' Mari - the difference from the above one would be that they grant the Unspoken with the attributes of a God (while he is only a principle for the other ones)
3. There is also a Santerran Mari - the one you were thinking about, though you didn't finished the drafts yet...

The Santerrans would tolerate the Murmillion way of Mari, as after all, this kind of worship and vision of this Goddess is what makes them to be such fine wariors :)  And, besides that, Mari is the Goddess of deception...
The Santerran Murmillions would also tolerate the Santerran way of Mari, because they are used to the old Cults' system. The Santerran Mari would be for them just like one of the old Cults.
The Free Murmillions... well, they would not tolerate any of this, but then again, they are not involved :)



This would be how I see the political situation in this region around the Year of Darkness and towards the year of Santhros. We can think of course of later developements but that comes with the timeline and right now we still have work to do before the Year of Darkness :)


PS: I almost forgot. Another thing about this war. The Murmillion King is killed in the battle of Altyr (as you say in the Asthalon entry if I remember exactly) thus even more chaos reigns among them. The Council takes an emergency meeting (like they did when Sylas died) but this time they can't agree on who should be the next King, as they are actually fighting over the theological issues the Year of Darkness had presented them (and let's not forget that the Council is the Council of the Cults). Also in the Asthalon entry you mention that there were two trends runing among Murmillions in this period...

Hmmm... and let's name that King, Aegonnas (I'll update the King list too)

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #20 on: 17 August 2003, 12:48:00 »

I'm not sure the Santerran act as logic. Possible way they'd handle it would be to offer anyone to either obey them or be killed. I guess they'll be pretty dirty when it comes to that.

I'm currently writing up the notes and your places history to a timeline with dates so we can more easily progress. I put about 2000-3000 Years between the War of the Chosen and the first recorded history so things get more condensed.

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Smith in Exile
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btw
« Reply #21 on: 20 August 2003, 17:17:00 »

could you signal in this thread when you update the timeline? (it's easier for me to keep the track of it)

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #22 on: 21 August 2003, 11:04:00 »

I'll do. However it'll take some more time as work is harrassing me and I'll be on vacation next week.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #23 on: 21 August 2003, 17:14:00 »

ok, enjoy your holiday :)

anyway, until you go...

I am currently working on a people entry for Theodunn (I guess he is a good one to mention as the entry covers Sylas' campaign and the beginning of the Dark Age, and also makes references to the Year of Darkness by his prophecy) so I need to know if you are ok with some things:

The battle of Kormendale took place in 3200 bS? I need to know the exact year. Also I am thinking that the battle (Finnas' charge) took place in an evening, and it ended up in a slaughter that continued during the full moon night (that should make a good effect I guess). Murmillions though marched into the city only a few days later (thus allowing the small Kassite group that escaped the slaughter to flee with the Korweyn heir)
Also the siege of Cykosi started aprox 10 years prior to the final battle?

PS before you leave you could also tell me what you have decided for Menemronn (perhaps I will get to finish that entry too)

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