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Smith in Exile

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« on: 02 August 2003, 14:23:00 »

well, you already posted in this forum two links to some of your early drafts about the guy so I guess there is no point in pasting them here too (I have them saved on my comp, and you should know them as you wrote them :) )

anyway, there are certain lines that we need to follow:

1. The "facts", the story of Menemronn

1a. Menemronn in Murmillions' view (I already mentioned a few things about how they think about him in the Murmillion entries)
1b. Menemronn in Kayr view (I'm kinda clueless here, but I suppose their version doesn't differ too much from the Korweynite one, perhaps the elves can be more accurate on certain things...)
1c. Menemronn in Korweyn view (we need to decide about this now)
1d. we can also add a later Santerran view if Asthalon the Black had anything to do with it (when he decided to travel in the sickle)

2. The myth of Menemronn - this is the story of the throne and of the magical stones. I guess this should be mainly a Korweyn legend that's why we need to see about it now, so that we can add it to the Korweyn beliefs entry. The main thing about this would be that Murmillions could disregard it (as that could make things pretty interesting)

Smith in Exile

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« Reply #1 on: 15 August 2003, 08:21:00 »

I think that actually it doesn't hurt to paste here what you have already sketched about Menemronn (although these things can also be found in other places of these forums, or maybe just because of that). So here are some quotes that should give us a starting point:

Their [elves] peaceful life changed with the rise of the Chosen, the mighty human sorcerers that reached out to dominate the world for the cause of their God. Soon the dwarves obeyed to their power, the humans are conquered and Orcs were enslaved or vanished in bloody wars and slaughters.

This changed when One came to Nybelmar to rise above all and erected a vast mountain range at the edge to the newly formed ocean seperating the lands: "Menemronn the Purple" built the Fortress of "Eferán’ypheró", the Burning mountains.
From his castle he subdued all other chosen or destroyed them and he began to burn the Emerald Wood. The war waged over all lands of Nybelmar and all the free races suffered. Much of the Emerald Woods was burnt or chopped down by his armies to drive out the elves as the strongest remaining foe on the continent.

In later times it was assumed that Menemronn was the Chosen by Coór himself as none seemed to encompass him in power and greatness His aim was the dominion of Nybelmar and then the rest of the Áer'aí'chán. His army gathered to crush the last resistors as the elves, dwarves and humans rallied for the decisive battle.

The battle was won when Korweyn who was from then on called "the Great" by the Elves killed the champion and leader of Menemronn.

It were again the humans that stormed the gates where finally Menemronn himself awaited them. Korweyn and Enfastalos perished by the might of Menemronn's weapons, but not Kyras who betrayed them and withdrew from the fight. Nevertheless Korweyns sword stroke a terrible wound across his chest and Enfastalos' bow pierced his shoulder twice before they died by the power of the Chosen.
Menemronnm must have realized that the battle was close to be lost and so he climbed to the highest tower, to the highest peak of the "Eferán’ypheró" to cast in his arrogance and selfishness a final, a last powerful spell to destroy all who still opposed him and all the lands with them.

And there her [Imsádi, great princess of the Taeánrhim] white arrow found a gap in the Darklords armor where Enfastalos' bows had opened the ways and her silver sword stroke deep into the gap Korweyn's mighty blast had created.
And so the last Chosen of Nybelmar fell, a last curse on his lips, his body however was never to be found as he perished when the first sunlight of the "Injérá" broke through the clouds of his darkness and the "Eferán’ypheró" became a haunted place.

Imsádi, great princess of the Taeánrhim, died soonafter infested by the "black Breath" that had also killed Korweyn and Enfastalos. Under the influence of the disease her skin turned grey and dry and even the dwarves cried at the evanascence of such beauty.

Kyras the Dark, the only of the three leaders that led the armies into battle, wanted to stay and take the "Eferán’ypheró" as the foundation of a great human empire but Enfastalos' men and "Nandros" the younger brother of Korweyn and now in command of this part of the humans wanted to follow the advice of the elves to abandon the place. "Kyras" at first agreed to follow but at the Jerrah he betrayed them and went back into the hills before the "Eferán’ypheró" and many folks followed him.

The year was later called the "year of Dawn", the year 8956 b.S. in the Santharian dating system, the years in which the shadow fell and in which the races began to reconstruct their world for a better future.

It is said that to secure his rule over the lands of the west of Mechrónn the Chosen, a powerful Moh'mek'rónn in the arts of wizardry created eight stones to subue the powers of the elements under his reign.
These eight stones, everyone a powerful artefact on its own dictated the history of Nybelmar for millenias. Everyone of them gave its bearer great power over the element it was made of.
After the Fall of Menemronn the elves claimed the stones of Light to use them to heal the world and as mortgage for their Fallen heroes. The socalled "Darkstones" were left in the throne as the Elves believed they would bring peril and death over anyone unworthy bearing them.
But Kyras the dark betrayed the humans and claimed the throne of Menemronn and claimed the stones as his righteous property.
Much war and peril would arise out of this situation and though some of the stones were lost still legends strive about their enormous powers either healing or devastating ones.

The eight stones:

The "Lightstones":
The Stone of Wind (Ávásh'catar):
The Stone of Fire (Éfér'catar):
The Stone of Water (Már'catar):
The Stone of Earth (Mód'catar):

The "Darkstones":
The Stone of Silence (Ancianá'catar):
The Stone of Darkness (Móh'catar):
The Stone of Ice (Cár'tuulén'catar):
The Stone of Stone (Hál'catar):

ok, now let's sort them out a bit.

First we would have several versions of the battle:
1. The Kayr version - which would be pretty close to that of Korweynites and to the quotes above
2. The Korweynite version
3. The Murmillion version


The Kayr version would differ a little from the Korweynite one, as I guess they do not care too much about the humans' problems (meaning Kyras' actions). So they wouldn't mention anything about Kyras. What we need to decide is wether they have or not the myth of the stones.

The Korweynite version emphasize Kyras' betrayal and Korweyn's great deeds of course. They would also tend to forget that dwarves had anyhing to do with this battle. The myth of the stones would also be very important for them.

Murmillions obviously would see the things quite different. For them Menemronn was a civilizing hero that wanted to lift the Nybelmarian people from their barbaric state. Initially there were also some elven clans among Murmillions so the old spiritual wounds of the elves would show up in this also - as the Kayr were seen (well, at least until the clan fightings start) as wrong-doers by these "Murmillion" elves. Thus Kyras is not a betrayer but a wise hero. They also do not believe in the myth of the stones, instead they emphasize the fact that Menemronn didn't died at all and that it was his choice to leave this world for a higher state of existence.

I'm thinking that in the entry all these versions would be presented, avoiding to set an "objective truth"...

Now the second part: the myths.

First, the myth of the stones.
- question: do Kayr believe in this myth? because if they do we would have again at least two versions of this myth.
- if only Korweynites believe in it then it's simple. Though we need to adjust the stones a little to fit their system of elements. And this would be the difference if the Kayr also believe in this myth: they would have the stones adjusted to fit their system of elements (the classical one)
- Santerrans had no role to play in all this, but they nevertheless settled on some lands "loaded" with such significances. So, another question: do they borrrow the myth from Korweynites or not? (I'm thinking about Asthalon's last expedition in the Burning Mountains - he was told to go there, but why?

Second, the Arkaeon myth:
- well this is basically the idea by which Menemronn would be the Chosen of Coor
- some further interesting developements could also be offered by another Arkhaeon idea, that actually Menemronn would live in a spiritual form in each and every Arkhaeon leaders (this later proposal is in the same series with the Spirit Dragon idea :) )...

Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #2 on: 15 August 2003, 10:19:00 »

Just a short note about the Kaŭr. As at least some of them are lightelves they won't know any myths about it because for them it is lived(by some of their leaders) history. They'd have a story that'll resemble history from an elven point of view. after the fall of Menemronn they'd indeed not bother much about the humans but rather try to rebuild their homes and forests to destroy any trace of Menemronn.

They'll be also the ones thinking that Menemronn was a servant of Coór which will be again turnt upside down by the Coórhem.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #3 on: 24 August 2003, 02:13:00 »

Okay, don't know if that is the info you needed but here we go:

The Kaŭr: Here's a bit the problem I mauled about some months ago by not knowing how long the year of Darkness really was and wether the WoC really happened. The lightelves of the Kaŭr even if they're only few are immortals. They would know that just like the Elves of Tolkien they'd have a memory that goes through all ages.

So they'll have a history that dates back to even mythical times, their view is probably subjective but nevertheless accurate about the events taking place. The only vague points in the myth(story) of Menemronn would be his last moments on Caelereth as Imsadi was the only elf present when he supposedly died. So the fear of a new shadow would be very real for them because they do not know about it.
They'll have the most detailed and precise story about the war against Menemronn. Kyras' betrayal would be getting obvious to them only late as it is as you said, they'd not care about human problems. However later they'll interpret this that something of Menemronn survived and the Murmillions are now the servants of a new shadow. Thus they'll fight them but at some point they'll grow to weak to continue alone. (I'd actually suggest that in the first millenium or two their power would frighten the Murmillions so much that the dangers of the Emerald Woods and its inhabitants would get legendary. Beside the Korweynites themselves all other human tribes will fear these woods because of such stories.)

The Kaŭr will see the stones as artefacts of certain power and value, however they'd only take the four "good" ones seeing the havoc the others are meant for.

Here we come to the slight problem what the stones really can do and where they derives. Why should Menemronn make four uncorrupted stones at all? Or did he not? :)
That's something important I guess but the main idea is that any of the stones has great magical power but are all not free to use. In a whole we have eight stones, four for the pure elements and four for the elements corrupted/twisted by Bothú/Coór. The Lightstones might be then seen as the rare examples of a really perfect object as they're free of the evil influence of Bothú.

The Korweynites story will be very vague about the war and the years before but rise the deeds of Korweyn and also Enfastalos into the sky. They'd describe the myth as a great fight between good and evil and while the Kaŭr will earn the glory for defeating Menemronn they'll see it that the race of humans  paved the to the elves' success. I think the Kaŭr are probably the only ones that are seen as higher than themselves by the Korweynites. Even purer and more powerful than themselves. Thus they'd even follow a call even when it is based on a treaty millenias old like they did to aid the Kaŭr against the Murmillions.

The Murmillion interpretation, you know best about that. ;)

Further events about the stones would be that they slowly spread over the varioustribes of Caelereth. The Kaŭr will lose several during their civil war, I think the Fireelves should gain the according stone, others might get lost and end up in Korweyn or in the northern woods. The Murmillions would have the four stones in the beginning but still I'd think that as some kind of prophecy or just dramatic detail one of the darkstones should've found its way to the Korweynite court upon their decline causing the desaster. Maybe the Chyrakisth should have one as well but I'm not sure. The Murmillions should lose more when the city of Lhindal falls. What the Santerrans do with them I'm not sure but maybe one would become part of the darker cults of Mari in the Highkingdom.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
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Smith in Exile

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« Reply #4 on: 24 August 2003, 05:51:00 »

Well, just right after the defeat, among Murmillions' ancestors there were also some elves (though mortal elves, I guess some sort of dark breed). Before the Kayr would ask the Korweynites for help, there were a lot of fights among the Murmillion clans, and especially between the elven and human ones. So I think that Kayr actually didn't gave up the fight after Menemronn's defeat but they intended to "clean up" the place when they realized that people are still living there. Because of Kayr incursions the humans grew suspicious of their own elves and thus the fightings started bringing the elimination of the elves among them. Some of these elves sought refuge among Kayr maybe so when they saw what these elves had become they assumed that the Shadow wars were not at all over, thus they called the Korweynites for a new war again. The civil war that started among them (and probably the new threat in the west) prevented them from continuing this war though, and thus we have the Korweynite-Murmillions wars.

Now the stones: Murmillions do not believe in them (being created by Menemronn). Probably the clans that took posesion of those stone concealed this fact, I don't know. But this is myth. So I can obscure a little in the entry the origin of the stones. The problem was about how many of them are and for what do they stand (I mean what these stones actually do).

The "Korweynite stones" could have got there by Arkhaeon's plots (in the times when they set up their outer branch in Korweyn, outer branch that made a lot of the eastern cities to open revolt against the empire and receive Murmillion armies as liberators).

Now here are a few ideas:
I was thinking a little about magic in Ehebion and about what kind of magic they would probably have. Well I guess that if we take it logically that magic would be close to what we may call "mind magic": means of influencing one's mind. I am thinking that especially the Arkhaeon leader is very proficient in this (one of the reasons for which Murmillions found hard to just dismiss them as blasphemous - as they appreciated a lot these features) So the dark stones (and probably the light ones too) would have a major influence on the one tending them.
About Menemronn creating the lightstones also I see no problem. After all he is not suppose to be a cartoon evil character :)  He had his reasons and he was not made of pure evil essence as the Korweynites and probably Kayr are seeing him. Actually in an objective view, Menemronn should not be nor good nor evil, but he should be judged only by his actions...
The Kayr champion being slain, the Kayr never just assumed that Menemronn was dead. So probably they "sensed" that something still exist there in a certain form. But they could never be sure though. Actually even Murmillions are assuming that Menemronn died (or at least he left this plane of existence). My idea would be that he transformed himself (through a last, desperate or not, spell) in that thing that later was to be known (by very few individuals) as "spirit dragon" - the Arkhaeon leader (:)  remember the "secret" of this guild?). This being though had lost in the transformation all its previous memories and see itself as a "spirit dragon" (probably because the ritual for this spell was made in this way, involving some "dragon wisdom" or something). Of course this I would only mention as another myth in the entry but nevertheless I need to know if you are ok with it (as I would have some ideas for the Nepris project if we agree on this - or perhaps just the Arkhaeon leader would get to this conclusion, not being necessarily true?).

Smith in Exile

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« Reply #5 on: 09 November 2003, 18:12:00 »

this is what I worked so far (I have just one more section to add)


The story of Menemronn... or where everything started. We will try in the followings to gather the scattered Nybelmarian legends about this wizard of old and offer you a coherent story about the beginnings of this continent. That because all the nations of Nybelmar (elves or humans, no matter) that still have rememberings about such distant times, all of them mention a great war, a great alliance and a great victory; and the figure of Menemronn The Purple, the powerfull wizard, always stands in the center of all these myths and legends.
From what we gathered, we reached the conclusion that Menemronn should have been one of the Chosen, one that fought in that terrible ancient war. There are no records though among the Sarvonian myths about him, thus we cannot say what was his real role in the War of the Chosen. But what we can say is that in some moment, more than ten thousand years ago, this wizard came to Nybelmar and set out for a campaign meant to bring the continent at his feet. A great alliance was forged against him and finally he was defeated. But in the mountains of Eferán’ypheró, the easternmost Nybelmarian range of mountains that, supposedly, was magically created by him, a new nation was born, the Murmillions, a nation that will held his memory in great respect. Menemronn's defeat has not brought peace in Nybelmar as perhaps it was supposed to, but it meant just the beginning of a long and troubled history, filled with wars, hatred, treachery and intolerance.
Indeed, dark and troubled seems the history of Nybelmar, but one cannot understand it, or learn from it, without understanding this myth, this story. Because, as we have already said, with Menemronn everything started...

The stories

We cannot pretend to offer you a "biography" of this man, as his life and deeds are stories already weaved in a mythical structure. We have several "versions" of Menemronn, as different people report to him in different ways. The Kayr elves have their story, the Korweynite humans have their story and as well the Murmillion men present their version as well. There are other versions too (we haven't mentioned the dwarves or the Esgarothanian humans, for instance), but we'll try to follow just these ones here, as these people were the main "actors" in these ancient events.

The only place in Nybelmar where you will hear about "The War of the Chosen" are the Kayr lands (maybe except for the Dasans Great Library, but their hidden texts mentioning the War of the Chosen are actually based on Kayr stories). Thus only the Kayr elves are naming Menemronn a "Chosen". But apart from that, even they do not know about this wizard's deeds before he came to Nybelmar. So one thing is for sure: about ten thousand years before Santhros (SC) the one named "Menemronn The Purple" settled in the eastern Nybelmar. There, at the edge of the newly formed ocean, he erected, by means of magic, a vast mountain range called "the fortress of Eferán’ypheró", "The Burning Mountains".
Using his great powers, he subdued all the tribes living around his new home. He formed a formidable army and he began to burn and chop down the Emerald Woods, the home of his strongest opponents, the elves. The war that started, had slowly spread over all the Nybelmarian lands and all the free races suffered greatly. Those who didn't want to join Menemronn's dreadfull legions were meant to be purged from the face of the earth. But when seemingly all hope was lost, a new ray of light shined for the battered tribes, as a great alliance appeared to rise just from the ashes of this continent.

As a last, desperate try to fight against all odds, the Taeánrhim (as the elves living in the Emerald Woods were calling themselves) sent ambassadors throughout the burned lands, to seek if there are still any traces of resistance. First they went where the dwarves lived, but, alas, they found only smoldering ruined cities. As many tribes on this continent the dwarves tried to carry on the battle by themselves. And thus they payed a high price. But still, hidden deep inside the mountains, the ambassadors found two remaining dwarven settlements, maybe overlooked by the hordes of the Burning Mountains. Then they travelled south, crossing the great Eypesh river, looking for the human settlements. But they were all pillaged and deserted. With the last hope dying, the messengers headed then towards the Sohoi Mountains. And they did good, as there they have found the refuge of three of the human tribes, led by three great heroes: Korweyn (later to be known as "the Great"), Enfastalos (later to be known as "the Quick") and Kyras (later to be known as "the Dark"). And there, on the Sohoi Mountains, the Great Alliance was forged, a last attempt of overthrowing the powerfull dark wizard from Eferán’ypheró.

The elves left their forests to avenge their fallen woods, the dwarves left their mountains to avenge their fallen brothers and the humans left their refuge to reclaim their former lands. Great battles took place on the plains between Eypesh and Jerrah, but the humans fought with a refound prowess and finally they managed to overcome the twisted armies of Menemronn. All the versions of this story agree that it was the human Korweyn the one who had slain Menemronn's champion, causing havoc among the dark ones. The war moved then further to the east and after months and months of endless battles the Alliance's army were at the gates of Eferán’ypheró. Again, the humans were the first who stormed the fortress, where, it is said, Menemronn himself awaited them. But this time they failed. Both Korweyn and Enfastalos died by Menemronn's very hands and many human soldiers perished with them. Kyras and his men though, managed to retreat from the scene of battle. The dwarven squadrons then took their place but again, no breakthrough was to be seen. It was only when the elven princess Imsádi charged frenetically followed by an elven battle group that the fate of this battle favoured the Alliance. Following the chaos, Menemronn tried to flee but Imsádi's arrow, it is said, found a gap in the Darklord's obsidian armor, where Enfastalos' bows had opened the ways. Then towering over the falling wizard, her silver sword struck a mighty blow, deep into the the gap created by Korweyn's blast. Also it is said, that just before the sunrise, with a last curse on his lips, this Chosen of Nybelmar fell within a thick dark mist and his body was never to be found. Everyone that stood near enough died soon after and Imsádi was no exception. The elves named this sickness the "Black Breath of Menemronn". Imsádi was hulled into white clothes and laid on a bed of satin and silk, but under the influence of this sickness her skin had been turned grey and dry, and even the dwarves mourned the evanescence of her beauty...

Silent and still grieving the elves turned back in their remaining woods advising everyone to leave the place as soon as possible. The dwarves followed them to head even further to the west, deep inside the Zharkanian Mountains, but the humans stayed arguing about what they should do. Kyras and his men wanted to stay and form a new wondrous Kingdom on such a place of power, but Nandros (Korweyn's brother) wanted to follow the advice of the elves. Finally they all decided to leave, but before crossing the Jerrah, Kyras turned his men back into the hills before the Burning Mountains. There, with his men, and with the remnants of Menemronn's armies (humans, but also some twisted elven clans) they forged a new nation: Murmillions. Enfastalos' men scattered along the southern coast and Nandros led his people back into the Sohoi mountains, never to forget or forgive Kyras' betrayals.
That year was called "The Year of Dawn" and in the Santharian Calendar it matches the year 8956 bS - the year in which the first Shadow fell and when all the races started to build their future once again.

The Legends


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