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Author Topic: Sarthera - now open to discussion  (Read 9073 times)
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« on: 15 February 2004, 08:35:00 »

Since it's hard for both of us to communicate via email or MSN/yahoo, I'll post the things we've discussed here (as a 1st draft) Then, I'll slowly transform them to something more comprehensible and ordered.

Edit: The following is presented in a 1st draft/brainstorming format. As subjects are discussed here, ppl can volunteer to pick an aspect and work on it. All entries that are posted must be specified under Smith's "Bell Ringing" post. Hope you enjoy!

Smith & Coren

PS: Arti, please don't beat me... I was going to start with a small beast (the worker wisp) but then Smith said it looked like a nice project, and... you know... I'm sorry if this in any way seems to undermine your authority or infuriates you :(  

The Earth Empire (needs a new name)

1) Production/Trade/Natural Resources/Crafts

2) Army

3) Religion (deities, celebrations)

4) Priestesses and Training

5) Temple Hierarchy

6) Government

7) Customs (libraries also included here)

8 )  History

9) Language



Symbols used:

nnn - needs a new name

( ) - question or problem about a word/phrase/concept

reference - Refers to another topic in the 1st draft

HT - High Temple
HP - High Priestess
HC - High Council

priest/priestess - I keep using these without much thought. I may mean a female cleric even when I'm talking about a priest - or visa versa. Not that it really matters...

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/15/04 18:16
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"Yes, what does that mean?"
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #1 on: 15 February 2004, 09:22:00 »

Production/Trade/Resources/Crafts

1- Agriculture:

(separated into two main branches)

a) the Timars (nnn)
(backbone of the agriculture sector)

Wheat, grain and the like (is there a special name for this type of crops in English?) >>> basically based on the Ottoman timar system. Produced by and (mostly) for the military.

PS: This will probably have to change according to the tribe’s history. Either during/before the Alliance with Fire [nnn] (at this time it was probably like the timar system present in the Seljuks) or integrated some decades from now (the revolution of the system into the Ottoman way of agriculture. Started by the new Earth King (nnn– see history)

Q: Where can I find information on Santharian/Nybelmar currency, especially a conversion of an Ottoman akche into a Nybelmar coin (or first into a European medieval penny?)

- The government (with the Temple’s approval – see religion and administration) distributes the agricultural territory. Each of these beys (similar to – but with a few strong contrasts – the medieval land lords. Also needs a new name – basically everything regarding this tribe does :: sighs ::)  The land lord saves a portion of field’s revenue for himself, and for every – let’s say – thousand coins has to feed/keep one cavalry/farmer that not only helps the land lord run his field, but also fights for his country when necessary (they also help maintain public security). One thing to keep in mind here is that these soldiers add up and form a good portion (actually about %70-80 percent of the entire land army).

* The land lord is responsible for his cavalry’s military training.

Q/Problem: I probably also have to find a way for the government to check the system and make sure that the land lords don’t get too powerful.

Solution: These aren't feodal lords actually. Simply land (for the lack of a better term) lords. The priestesses also have the duty to inspect each and every farm in the entire kingdom and keep Land Diaries (nnn)- how much Lord A produced in the year of AAA, what type of crops, how many did he keep for himself (btw it is illegal to hide the production from these priest/inspectors: punishment : their land is reclaimed by the government) that are first introduced to the HT (secretly) then to the HC and then sent to the HT's vast underground library.


And today in Sarthera: The timars are the only sector that function properly - more or less - after the Seperation (see history)

b) Vegetables, fruits, various herbs and leaves (possibly most are rare/unique etc)

- Enough vegetables, fruits, herbs are grown around the villages/cities (every family is responsible for their own garden (no mass production like the timars), but they of course trade/exchange with each other --- maybe at a fair/festival that takes place every other month or so?) to ensure the citizens’ wellbeing.

- Excess products (?) and specially grown (these are the unique plants, or rather things that only grow in that area) herbs/vegetables/fruits… are exported (the villagers may sell their food directly to other cities/countries themselves or give them to merchants whose sole business is buying these products from the villages and exporting them to other cities/countries)


c) Poisons and antidotes (this is actually the only part of the agriculture sector that makes a good deal of money)

- Only grown (in areas and by people) under the government’s supervision. A priest from the temple is always assigned to watch over the business along with the experts appointed by the High Council (see government)

- The Temple (also the members of the High Council – though secretly, since it would otherwise be interpreted as mistrust towards (?) the Temple (very dangerous)) ALWAYS has an extra stock of the antidote (along with a scroll on how the poison is made, how the plant was grown, under what conditions etc). This is why a priestess from the Temple is always in duty. She reports to the local temple; and the master of each temple reports to the High Temple)

- It is forbidden for commoners – even for the members of the High Council – that are not allotted by the Temple/government to grow/sell/deal with these venoms. Furthermore it is also illegal for people (other than priests and priestesses) to possess these materials.

Note: It is a citizen’s duty to report any illegal usage/smuggling either the local Guild of the Serpent (see government) or a local temple (which will both report to the High Temple. The HT may or may not choose to notify the government).

And today in Sarthera: After the Fall of the Temple/Favored [nnn] (see history) (the separation of the temple and the government) this sector can no longer be audited accurately. Illegal smuggling across the borders (especially to Orcal) and underground Venom Lords – as they call themselves – are one of the greatest issues the High Council has to deal with) Actually the timars (wheat production) is the only sector that can still – more or less – function as it used to.

d) Spices ???

e) (and now, as you've requested) Various plants and flowers for export (especially unique ones/ or those that look/smell nice to decorate elite houses?)


2- Crafts

(It is said that dwarves formed the country’s elite/and favored craftsmen/artisan class. Now almost no dwarves dwell in Sarthera)

a) Construction artisans/engineers/architects:( in the expansion period of the kingdom)

- (like the Romans and the Ottoman) The army does not travel without a cluster engineers (a good portion of the army. Problem: How do I figure out how big armies were then, and the ratio of its legions (archers, cavalry, footmen, engineers…)?)

- instead of going around obstacles, the army immediately begins constructing roads and bridges and water channels (like the Romans). But oftentimes they just build underground passages (would suit the notion of an “Earth” empire and the dwarven artisans) [also used for ambush, and besieging towers/castles/walls]

Problem Dwarves are supposed to be a rare sight in Nybelmar

Solution : Diminishing their numbers: Few in number (how many actually?) --- so: They serve as the Master Artisans in construction projects and Chief Engineers in the army with humans as their assistants or workers.

Problem Wait a second! Were did all those dwarves come from?

Smith's Solution
They sought and recieved refuge there after the great war on Menemronn ended. Perhaps a dwarven exodus of some kind, these guys -who will later become the Sartheran dwarves [nnn] -  would be the last of their tribes to settle in one place - the first ones went to the deserts aroudn Fullwanooth, other scattered and eventually disappeared on the southern plains, the third ones found their lost brothers of Tyr Faerath, and the fourth would be the Sartheran dwarves.

(see history)

Sartheran Dwarves in general:

* They used to live/supposed to have lived in the underground city of ----- (actually where should they live? somewhere in the Germon Doilth, the broken mountain range just below Moredein Julsten, or in Daeinionlvyeth?) However, there are nothing more than ruins present today.

- Can the HP have the Hal'catar and Mod'catar? She may have acquired them over the centuries (she is almost immortal) through the country's Spies Guild and her 'healers'?

Perhaps she used the Stones to help her in the Breaking (major part of history, fall of the empire), perhaps the beguiling power of Hal'catar was what caused the things to get out of control and corrupted her and her "vision"/cause?

* The dwarves have sealed and guard Hal'catar (a great honor given to them by the Goddess, and thus by the HP) - until one day the HP asks for it (the Breaking?)

*A delegation/board of dwarves visit the HP every year (one problem though: how can they enter the Inner Circle, or even worse, step into the HT?) Could consist of (pls help me here... I'm terrible at arranging all these greeting/tribute committees:
- the Dwarf King
- Clan leaders
- Religious authorities
- Heads of the guilds (if there are any - are there any?)

>>> this shows that they are ("were" actually, I keep using the present tense, since I'll mainly be writing about the Great Earth Empire (needs a new name) in this entry) still extremely grateful for being "accepted" into Sartheran (is this the right term?) lands. (So basically they are a kingdom of their own, dependant on Sarthera only about some major foreign affairs such as great wars etc? Perhaps they are not even "dependant", but rather just "notify" the Sartheran High Council before they do what is on their minds?

* They view Earth as a male figure (shouldn't they?). So instead of a god/ess they believe/trust Earth as an 'element' - like in the Runelord series? (temple scorns them of course, but the HP remains silent - so do the dwarves, after a series of unfortunate 'incidents' (history) that happened during their annual visits. Perhaps the HP might really enjoy playing with them - their king especially - a special kind of Dwarven board game?

PS: Btw, like the T.o.A, the HP is immobile. Connected to the Roots of Life in her throne. I need to talk to you about this.

* But they "worship" the God of the Mines (one of the "sons" of "Earth" - dominion over the stone and (after the (assumed) defeat of Erlik) the underworld.

-dwarven mages (only the top notch ones) are skilled in link breaking, or in Santherian terminology, Ecua. Perhaps these are the spell-breakers of the army?


b) Jewelers (again dwarves. Nowadays, nothing worth mentioning is produced or exported)

- ore from dwarven mines, possibly located in Daeinionlvyleth or in the mountain range south of Moredein Julsten

Problem: Are there any entries/info on who is living there or what kind of resources may be found in these places?

Smith's Solution: As nothing is really developed in the west, you are free to think of whatever wierd (or not) resources you want.

* takes out a pen and notebook * Any suggestions?

c) Wood/leaf works

Most buildings are constructed from wood (human ones especially) and stone: (dwarves live in their underground taverns)

- Chopping down trees in the Sacred Woods (or in the guardian forest around it) is STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. The High Temple itself deals with intruders. (Not a very nice way to die… or even worse [one of the few things the Temple is very stern about])

PS: All the wood needed for the temples/structures in the Inner Circle of the Sacred Woods is acquired by wisps (definetely nnn since will'o'wisps known as little deceiving swamp lights). similar to the wisp workers in WarCraft. But will need some altering to become santharian)

Some general info on Sartheran Wisps and the incredible lifespan of Sartherans:

- myth: gift from the L. o. the Skies? (see main tribe/religion)

Btw, can I have faeries? Or something similar to the fae of the void? See below:

Sartherans have extremely long life-spans compared to the other human tribes in the world:

70-90 years - commoners
up to 110 years - nobles+ the rich
up to 120-130 years - priestesses
120-190years - Priests of the 4th phase

There are two theories present to explain this incredible life-span:

1. After the defeat of Menembronn "healers", priestesses etc. were sent to the east to help the elves in their attempts to cleanse the lands and repair the damage. They find out that the two groups have much in common and slowly support a mutual respect and sympathy to each other. Some elves also depart for Sarthera - where they'd live and prosper under the protection of the HP, and the HG. So the theory is: all Sartherans are a breed of half-elves. All Sartherans have elven blood running in their vein, some diluter than others.

2. (this is why I need fairies) When one of the Chosen (need a new name, for obvious reasons) is transformed into the HP, she becomes immortal - only age-wise (most HP choose to end their lives and select a successor to be "free" and merge with the Goddess in her purest form). So perhaps she is one of what Aeruillinians call the High Fairies (but of the once-human ones)? See history.

Since intermarriage with faes would be a stupid notion, perhaps the following may explain the situation a bit better:
* living under the influence of wisps (new name needed), faes and the T.o.A

- Btw, integrating a wisp into one's soul is believed to increase one's magical powers unbelievably (because of the skill wisps have in the earth tongue)

                          --- End of Wisps ----

- the woodcutters are mainly human. They all strive to make the least possible harm to the forests. A short ceremony performed by the priestess  responsible for the group (in every big construction project a priestess from the temple is present to make sure that everything is done in accordance with the Goddess’ ways) before and after the clearing. (in smaller projects, like the father of the house building a barn, he can recite the prayers by himself) Also for every tree that is chopped up, a new one has to be planted. (a severe money penalty (?) otherwise)

-- Sartheran wood carvings/chiseling are very popular all around the continent.

- wickerwork and leaf embroideries are common in villages

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/14/04 16:24
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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #2 on: 15 February 2004, 10:31:00 »

ARMY

In the days of the Earth Empire [nnn]:

*archers (all arrows are poisoned, oftentimes prepared by the temple. But the preparation the venomous arrows are taught to the troops during their military training – in the unfortunate case that no priestess is available or they are surrounded by enemy forces (earth troops hiding in a forest, no help available))

*cavalry – mainly from the timars

*few pedestrians
- Weapons ??? (should they use axes?)
- Troops are also trained in the use of poisonous darts. (in case they’re ambushed/or will ambush in a forest – from the branches of trees)

* The Royal Guard/ Temple Guard (the best soldiers undergo another training phase)

* Engineers (dwarves)

*Magic users (earth mages and priestesses [see religion, priestess training])

/Mages/
     - (still to be decided)Will either live in huge mushroom buildings (if you’ve played the most spectacular rpg/strategy ever Lords of Magic (special Edition) you’ll certainly remember these mischievous magicians) or in underground towers/cities ??

- Specialized in:
        - manipulating the earth and rocks
        - growing / aging
        - earthquakes (via a massive joining of wills)
        - hiding, sealing, traps etc.

   - Also work in the libraries??? (making sure arcane texts are scribed correctly?)

PS: By the way necromancy is forbidden in the entire kingdom. That’s why people (even the priestesses) scorned the HP during the Breaking (see history)

* Treants (a combination of Tolkein’s and the Ancient protectors in warcraft) – trees animated/summoned by the priests (actually the High Temple has a huge faction of summoners who work in shifts to maintain the spell 24 hours a day. All under Master summoners’ (needs a new name – those in charge of the small summoning groups and the Headmaster who is in charge of the entire summoning faction) provision. The High Priestess also uses a good portion of her power to control/maintain this web. (the treants can be linked to the HP (high priestess)’s mind at any time)
-Guard the Sacred Forest (no one allowed in without High Priestess’s orders)
- Throw massive rocks, and entangles troops with their roots

Nowadays in Sarthera – Kingdom's army is not disciplined/strong enough, therefore they need the Spider sentries to guard the country

the Kingdom’s army:
* timar cavalry (however: drastically less in number (the kingdom has little territory left)
* few archers (no poisonous arrows) that are not trained as well as they used to be. No horse rides.

Spider sentries: (more to come later)
/form the bulk of the army/
- shadowmancers, thieves, assassins, dark rangers (which guard the entrance to the Sacred Woods)

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #3 on: 16 February 2004, 07:04:00 »

RELIGION

(a very basic overview including the main deities)

PS: For the HG of Earth:  I’ve written priestesses everywhere, but in fact there also exist male priests – though a lot less in number compared to their female partners (see priests and training). The HP is ALWAYS female.

Main tribe (nomadic) and various deities:

*ancestor worship *
-shamans - everything has a soul, world = everlasting war btw good and evil spirits

*Greatest God - Lord of the Skies Ulgen (?)God of Air/the Skies/theCelestial Lands (was the highest/strongest deity of the main tribe. Also had a counterpart (god of the underworld?) who was responsible for all evil (and was the master of the evil spirits) who continuously fights against his brother. Slightly less powerful then Ulgen)

*Erlik (his evil counterpart, hated by the other gods and people)
- also a god of Fire + Darkness >>> later one of his sons is "tamed", LoS accepts/makes him the God of Fire - but of course, he too proves to be treacherous (why there is no Fire temple in the Inner circle of Sarthera, perhaps even the breaking may be related to this)


* High Goddess of the Earth (wife/lover of LoS?)
>>>> Sartherans, under the leadership and guidance of the Goddess move to Nybelmar. Because of Her nature >>> 1st settlements, agriculture

* *High Goddess of Water/Rivers/Sea/Ocean + (?) Groves/Moonlight


--------------

And now in the Empire of Sarthera:

Deities: (that are worshipped in the empire and have shrines in the Inner Circle around the Tree of Ages) [more to come soon]

- To honor the other High God/ess es (except fire)
PS: each subtribe - under the leadership of one of the High Gods, immigrated into a different place/continent. the temples in the inner circle are only representatives of the other High Temples (see history/main tribe)

- in the ancient times the Temples in the Inner Circle were used as portals/communication among the HPs, but since it was exteremly hard and taxing both to maintain and use these gates, they were not looked after well. now the lore is lost, these lay in ruins?

* The High Goddess (according to Sartheran beliefs) of Earth
(minor gods/goddesses that serve the HG)

The minor gods that serve the HG:

- The God of the Hunt/Horned One – very similar to Arvins. Actually historians believe that he was inspired by Santharian beliefs. (before the burning of the ToL)
- The God of Mining? Underground (after the evil high god was thought to be banished?)

 
* There are also the temples/shrines (smaller in size compared to the HGs) of the Earth G's minions ---- semi-worshipped --- along with the HG, by various groups

for instance: human hunters , archers (?) >>> hunt/animal master
dwarves >>> the Stone Lord



Celebration: (can you help me with these?)

* Festival of the HG of E. (when earth powers are thought to be strongest) Probably marks the beginning of spring (happiness), and fall (mourning/new beginnning
)
-This is where the initiates are chosen (see priests and training)

Edited by: Ailin Ioeil Seafra Cyeall at: 2/15/04 14:05
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« Reply #4 on: 16 February 2004, 07:06:00 »

Priestesses and Training


Initiates chosen (mostly girls – about 1M for every 5F) at the Festival of Earth [nnn] These go through the

Standard Cleric Training [nnn] (phase 1)

(this is almost the same for all deities, the rest is for the HG)
- The Goddess + her ways, along with a quick introduction to the other deities?
-Prayers, everyday rituals
-duties/chores as a priest/ess
- history/geography of nymelmar/caelareth/math/literature/writing/reading/astronomy
-basic herbiology
-defense classes (basic dagger and quarterstaff use)

Then after some sort of testing, the main bulk of initiates are divided into 3

a) Dreamers
b) those who will continue with the 2nd phase of training [nnn]
c)  Those who quit the training at this level (but can later take the testing again) - most housewifes are at this level ? - become the the Low Priestesses [nnn] that work can work in village temples and chapels.

**********************************************************************

a) DREAMERS

(how should their talent be discovered? Fall into a trance state during the test, after the HP’s touch?)

-Serve as prophets, fortunetellers
- usually live in the wilderness alone, or in Dream Circles

Basic training Dreamer training
(the Dreamer Schools)

*recognizing hallaugenic (? Hallucinating?) plants, herbs, leaves and their parts, usages

*preparing halaugenic potion, salves, elixirs

*the trance state (how to get into one, how it works (theoretical knowledge), dangers, “coming back”)

*types of dreams

*different methods (basic) used for foreseeing

* recognizing “dream” places, tools, guardians?

*Goddess training continued (though at a slower pace)

*prophecies, how to formulate/write them (how to be cryptic enough hehe)


Apprentice Training

* seeing/feeling the Goddess’ touch

*recognizing other dreamers

*astral projection (leaving the body behind to “dream”?)

*contacting/communicating other dreamers, spirits via dreams

*foreseeing (all techniques improved, advanced ones taught, special training in master’s domain)

** Generally this is the application of the theoretical info learned in the basic training.

>>>After the first lucid(?) dream comes true). They go through a ceremony in the High Temple (this shows how important dreamers were to the kingdom. Normal priestesses would be allowed in the inner circle until the 4th phase) where they are announced true and independent dreamers. However they may choose to stay with their master, or work for a new one. (they become an official “Dreamer” that can participate in the “Gatherings”)

* After this sort of ‘graduation’ they may also continue with the 2nd phase of priestess training (btw, only a dreamer can become the HP)

*************************End of Dreamers************************

b) 2nd Phase of training [nnn]

*** advanced (and a very very heavy) herbiology ***

*prayers and rituals continued

*chores as a priestess (working halftime in a temple?)

PS: Where are all these priestesses trained? In local temples until the 4th phase?

*defense, history, math, writing… continued

>>>After graduation they divide into two again:

a) those who will continue the 3rd phase of training

b)Those who quit their training at this phase (later may continue with phase 3) and become the

"Herbalists"

(apprenticeship under a master herbalist)

* pharmacists of the society

*lore of the secret herbs (poisons and antidotes- “Subtle Wrath of the Goddess” ? ) – also taught in the 3rd phase of priestess training


*****************************End of Herbalists********************

3rd phase of training

* herbiology continued (easier now, only application, to not forget)

***defense (dagger, staff, “points of life” (needs a new name) (martial arts) training, and a weapon of their choice***

PS: After graduation: Those who excel in this area can join the “Temple Guard” (structure will come later)

- After their guard training the best warrior/priestesses selected to guard the High Temple (as the future temple guard). Ironically until they complete the 4th phase, they cannot ‘step in’ the High Temple. At this stage, they commonly work as the guards of the local temples.



***car’all workings and manipulations (first official introduction to clerical magic and powerful mantras/prayers/rituals etc)***

***healing (humans, animals, nature) via magic***



>>>> (After graduation) They may either

a) continue on to the 4th phase

b) or work as Healers

-travel alone or in groups to help/heal individuals/villages/communities.

-They may also be assigned by the HT after/during times of war to help refugees, warriors etc. (This is in fact how the Sartherans were first seen on Eastern Nybelmar, after the Great War against Menemronn. This is where the theory of Sartherans being half-elves first is based on.)


-Also serve as the HT’s spies (since they travel a lot)
PS: The HP can sense everything that walks in/on/under Sartheran land (and in the entire world – though the signals become weaker as the distance get greater. The more priestesses located in a place, the easier it is (the vision is clearer too) for the HP to focus. But she can only sense where beings are and major events that occur to Earth itself (earthquakes, poisoning of an entire land, burning of a forest etc). for instance she may feel an army advancing from the west, but cannot tell what they are. (unless they have ‘sworn to Earth’ – also takes place in the festival. Every Sartheran pledges his/her life to Earth when they reach a certain age. (actually HT’s secret way of keeping track of events) but even then ppl may notice her touch and may chose to shield their thoughts) It is believed that the Tree of Ages’ roots reach every single plant that is present in the world (the “roots” don’t have to be material. Possibly referring to the Xeua links between things) This process is very draining on the HP though. Also this is the way nature asks for the Goddess’ followers’ help (by reaching to her HP) – how she learned that there were fires in the Guardian forest. (before the Breaking, see history)

- report to a local temple every month (or when they return from a journey) (as usual) which would then report to the HT.

***********************end of healers***************************

c) or work as Shrine (local temples) Keepers

>>> This immense and extremely complex control mechanism (temple is in charge of almost everything, that’s why Sarthera suffered such a drastic fall after the Seperation, see history) is actually why there are so many priestesses in the kingdom. It is also important to note that the greatest portion of government funds is reserved for the HT (for usage in local temples etc.) – not that it really needs it ;)  

? an old Sartheran saying: rich as the High Priestess ?

*********************************************************************

4th phase of training (nnn)

PS: This is the most important part of the training procedure. After the 4th phase the main bulk of priestesses separate into their professions. Many find out that they cannot go any further.

PS: *** means that is the main classes of a certain phase

***politics***  
(those who are VERY successful, after graduation, may join the village/city council, and eventually become a member of the High Council – I could not figure out who exactly would be in each of these councils and how they are chosen, thus I will leave the government part empty)

PS: These are sent to another school [a special school to train diplomats and officers for the country – this not special to the priestesses. Anyone who is talented enough will be accepted (it just that priestesses can join only after the 4th phase)(unofficially called the 5th stage – presumably called by these politician/priestesses themselves to emphasize their position) The top-notch will join the councils (as said above) the rest may work as the public relations etc. officers, clerks, temple- bureaucracy. (see temple hierarchy – still to be drafted)

PS: Only someone who has gone through this training and was a HC member can become the HP. (that’s why there are very few nominates)

***the Earth Tongue***
(will explain this later in more detail – on msn? Basically, according to the temple everything (including events, actions, and possibilities) have an “Earth name” By calling on something (especially those of nature) a priestess may communicate or gain control over that thing.

- this is the most complex and the strongest type of spells (like power words, symbols are often used. Rituals are very complicated) the priestesses of Earth can cast. The logic behind summoning (the priestess’ summoning)

PS: After the training (caution: 3rd phase) is complete, the initiates (actually no more initiates, will need a new name) are undergo a fasting (?) period (like Buddhist monks do) (they can only eat certain things, let alone by themselves (in underground “pouches” beneath the school (where should this be?)) etc.) at the end of this period (by latest) the Goddess will whisper (if they have faith enough, willing to serve, powerful, know how to listen yada yada yada) their Earth Name into their ear. (also will tell them one of Her Earth Names (used to empower prayers, but has to be used sparingly, only in dire situation – for it is rumored that the Goddess will always listen to a prayer if her true names are invoked [whether or not she answers/grants it is another story] – may or may not be present in the Temple records (if not, the Temple will immediately record it. But the initiate (new name) can only whisper this name to the HP or the one just below her. (will have to work a temple hierarchy immediately) So after the 3rd stage it is a bit “goddess determined”, the initiates don’t have much to say over their fates. They may be very talented but perhaps they will never make it into the 4th phase.

***summoning/animating***
(most of the temple guard – remember the treants? There is (or rather was, in the Empire of Sarthera, before the Seperation) a huge faction of these summoner/animators that worked 24/7 in shifts to maintain the spell web around the Sacred Forest [nnn], keep the treants alive and under control. A Master Animator [nnn] is in charge of each of the small groups, there groups than form sections [nnn]... (see Temple hierarchy) and the HP is on the very top of this pyramid - she too uses a good portion of her energy to maintain/control this enormous Joining of Wills.

*goddess, prayers, spells, rituals yada yada yada continued

***plant talking/communicating***
(via the use of Earth names, sometimes ppl are born with the innate ability (or are bestowed the talent at a later stage by the goddess) to do this without using the Earth Tongue.)

PS: If the priestess can also communicate with animals, she will directly be transferred (whether she wants it or not (since the gift is very rare), she will only be “free” after she completes this new training) to the Temple of the Horned One (?) (and perhaps to the HT of the H.One (which is located in another country/continent?) later on) where they will start the training all over again (learning the HO’s ways). Though they will pass that stage faster than other – since they have already lost enough years in temple training. These become the “Guardians/Wardens of Nature”


Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/15/04 18:17
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« Reply #5 on: 16 February 2004, 10:32:00 »

5) Temple Hierarchy

will be added soon...

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/15/04 17:33
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« Reply #6 on: 16 February 2004, 11:36:00 »

6) Government

A most basic outline, more will come later:

*High Temple (and of course the HP)
PS: In case I forget to mention, the Tree of Ages [nnn] is the High Temple.

various officers assigned by the HT:
- "Poisions, Antidotes"
- the timars
- Temple Guard
- Temple officers
- Summoners


*King (no real one till now for centuries)/queen (mostly king) (both the King and the Steward must first work as a member of the HC, then they will be ‘appointed’ by the HP herself, I mean by the “Goddess” (this is why the HP is often referred to as the Goddess’ Hands in Caelareth – or something similar)
(now in charge, head of the HC) the Steward (lotr, aragorn’s place – was that a ‘steward’?)

*High Council
* The temple heads (present in the Inner Circle) of the other deities

*Guilds:
- Guild of the Serpent

City Councils
Village Councils
Local Temples

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"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
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« Reply #7 on: 16 February 2004, 10:41:00 »

7) Customs

(will add more soon)

1) Runestones (more info is coming soon) game for commoners (basic usage) + foreseeing tech. used by the priestesses – not the dreamers, they scorn this) - very few notice this, but these runes are written in the Earth Tongue (a hint for those studying the art)

2) The Sands of Judgment

* Person A whishes to know whether the Goddess approves what he does, has done or plans to do. He notifies the Temple (should each local temple – at least in the cities – have one of these areas, since only priestesses (and those who have completed the 4th phase can step in the HT?) (and the Temple will tell him when the Sands of Judgment are available, and what he has to do first to get prepared (a solitary ‘purification’ process?)

PS: Should the Temple charge ppl for this service? (a small fee?)

PS: The Sands of Judgment is a portion of land that is filled with a special kind of soil (perhaps a myth about Goddess’ favorite soil etc? also on how the custom – and the first enchantment – began) – which is enchanted by the Temple Keeper and her priestesses?

- Then he/she plants the seed (?) given to him/her by the Temple (or of their choice?) If it grows, the task/situation is ok with the Goddess, if it doesn’t, well, then… he/she would better reconsider. (for a person is not viewed with much sympathy, if he/she still tries to do what is in his mind after the Goddess gave him/her strict directions. Perhaps the local priests also ensure that he CAN’T do it (at least without dire consequences?) This may then also serve as one of the tests during the training.)

PS: Perhaps – for a price (should it be really high, since it requires a good deal of resources and effort to enchant a place?) – the Temple may create a temporary Soil of Judgment in the client’s garden/field/land etc. (perhaps also used by farmers? Since a Goddess-approved crop would certainly have a higher price/demand on the market?) Why would anyone want a personal SoJ?

- their too sick, they can’t move etc (the seed has to be planted, and looked after by the person who has asked for the G’s council. Also he has to recite a short prayer every time he nourishes the plant, while thinking about/etc his troubles?)

- the matter is too private for others to know? Or he does not want to be spotted?

Perhaps the Temple may even have a ‘discount’ for people
-who are “pure”, kind, well-tempered, have faith etc
-who have a question that would benefit the entire community (and that is not personal or selfish?)

*CAUTION: how the question is phrased / meaning behind omens

For instance: Does the Goddess approve the way I do ABC? Am I doing the right thing by asdflasjdf?

- the plant may grow, signifying the G’s approval. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean that it was the right thing or the best way to do a certain thing.

*Commonly used by/for:

-couples (engaged) --- to see if the G approves their love (unlike some other kingdoms/countries it is not the lovers’ families that decide whether a marriage should happen or not, only the G’s approval is needed)
-same for divorce
-having a baby etc.
-Council/King/Army/commanders before an important decision (whether it be a battle, state issue etc)? (maybe even wars are postponed/ canceled because of this?)

PS: Perhaps the SoJ could be free during the festival? So ppl are drawn towards the Goddess and like the Temple etc.?

*********************end of Customs******************************

Libraries

(started by King AAA - a new people entry/name needed. Interested in lore and riches, very greedy.)

*Every city has its own library.

- Seven main libraries in the kingdom. Dozens of copies are made of every book that is in the library (a librarian/clerk class whose sole job is producing these copies and maintaining the libraries)

PS: The High Temple has its own underground library that is said to stretch for miles. The High Temple ALWAYS gets a (free?) copy of every single book that can be found in the kingdom. (penalty otherwise. Temple allied with the guild of spies (house of the silent ears and watching eyes??) to find out all the illegal smuggling mentioned in the entire entry – poison, wood etc.)

- Government funds (explained below) for the libraries: maintaining the building, salaries of the librarians, acquiring rare books from all over the world)

- The government makes quite a handy sum (which is then distributed to the local governments (city councils etc)) from the book sales (this is why the clerks are producing new copies every day – the original ones always stay in either the High Temple (during times of war, one of the reasons why Sartherian don’t wage war often, or without preparation – no matter how funny it sounds, those books have to be carried all the way into the High Temple) or the seven main libraries) / the government claims %30 of the profit the rest is used as to fund the libraries all over the kingdom.

***********************end of libraries***************************

People and Housing

(more to come soon)

* jungle villages
* timar villages
*cities
* the main cities
* the palaces, important Temple locations

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/15/04 17:49
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« Reply #8 on: 16 February 2004, 11:04:00 »

History

(will be added soon. For now, a list of all the important events/ breakthroughs I can think atm: )

- the Division from the main tribe

- the Journey to Nybelmar

- the ToA and HT are erected by the HP and her "chosen" [nnn - the first and very powerful priestesses]

- nomadic lifestyle slowly fades into ------- agriculture as more roads, homes, villages are built


*** the War against Menemronn starts / ends  ***

* Dwarven Exodus (before or after the greatWar starts?)

- Healers are sent to Eastern Nybelmar (maybe the HP learned/confirmed what she was hearing from the earth via the dwarves)

*** the Empire continues to expand ***

* Alliance with Fire [nnn]

*the invasion of the Guardian Forest*

* main Sartheran trapped from two ends *

** HP is infuriated**

** the Temple Heads of the Inner Circle call the HP (they arrive via the portals - last usage) ***

*the HP is calmed by the other HP *

* ambush in the Sacred Woods, a group of priestesses and wisps slaughtered *

*** the HP goes mad ***

* Mod'catar and Hal'catar once again "appear" in Nybelmar history

********* the BREAKING ***********
(ironically the dwarves once again "buried" in their caverns, but this time by the HP they pledged their lives to / sought protection)

- Temple slowly loses power, the great control mechanism staggers for the first time
- priestess all over the kingdom called into the Inner Circle for another Joining of Wills - this time to chain and keep the HP alive (still continues)

** the Seperation of the Temple from Sartheran politics **
- all priestesses busy with keeping the spell on the HP, all drained

*** Fall of the Earth Empire of Sarthera ***

* the mystical "Spider Queen" appears
* first negotiations with the Hands of the Spider [nnn]
* Spider sentries are integrated into the army

and now: the small, secluded Sartheran Kingdom reduced to ashes - cannot even secure its trade routes (or what is left of it)
- increasing unhappiness. the Kingdom is on the verge of a rebellion/mutiny

- fights with the Orcal over trade routes



Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/15/04 18:05
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"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
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« Reply #9 on: 16 February 2004, 11:09:00 »

Language

(more to come soon, only plans for the future. I won't be able to do this by myself)

* Ancient Sartheran used in the Empire - based on the ancient Turkish (perhaps Chineese) language (the runic alphabet will have to be altered, grammar has to be set out… this is way later, and definitely something I will not be able to manage by myself)

*conjuctions/producing new words- common (due to the nature of earth/nature – always renewed, new things produced)

-the secrets of the Earth tongue

structure: (additions way later)


base/(seed) rune
         *
         *
       roots
(determines the sphere etc. what the spell/sentence mainly wishes to accomplish/mean - this part is the same for many spells)



Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/15/04 18:11
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"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #10 on: 17 February 2004, 12:02:00 »

Before I start nitpicking on details here some rather general questions:

-Are the dwarves really essential? I don't see real reason for them beyond being dwarves? An Earth tribe would develop enough interest in smithing, mining so dwarves would become even more unimportant. In the Middle Ages Jews did most monetary businesses because it was seen sinful by Christians, but sadly that didn't integrate them into the medieval society at all, far from it.

-How much can we trust this whole myth about them coming over the sea from twelve tribes? I don't sea how much basis is there for a non-seafaring nation without access to the sea.

-Must it be Sarthera? I ask this mainly because I wanted to make it an elven kingdom after some consideration. Main reason is that Nybelmar is getting too human and it was one of my initial concepts that humans were crowded along the coasts while elves dominate the interior. We could add detail to the coast along the Neytherrion Benderrath.

I like the idea of it being the missing link to the horse nations of the Kassites and Loreney but I guess we need to time that well. It's indeed something that must be solved early in order to develop the west of Nybelmar.

If possible I'd think about the spider queen and sentries a bit more, it sounds much like Lloth in the concept or rough outline, maybe thinking about what it is today might help leading to a less obvious symbol. Are they considered "evil" today?


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« Reply #11 on: 17 February 2004, 15:43:00 »

Ok, I'll try to answer your questions as much as time allows me today. Later this week, I might be able to post a synthesis of the discussions I had with Smith (mainly history) So basically, i won't be able to say much about this... But perhaps Smith would be "inspired" enough to fill in the gaps for me... :devilish

Quote:
Are the dwarves really essential? An Earth tribe would develop enough interest in smithing, mining so dwarves would become even more unimportant.


Yeah, but someone will have to teach them. (and if they are going to become any good at this, their teachers must be highly skilled as well) Remember, they were "nomadic" when they first arrived in Nybelmar (see my comments on your 2nd q) , they might have settled and moved towards agriculture by themselves (their religion having a major impact at this), but still... they can't figure out everything by themselves.

Also, if this is going to be any help at all (see history) those dwarves will later be buried in their caverns because of another catastrophe - I also need them for something else (Smiiiiiiiiiiiiiiith! how do i sum up all that Breaking stuff! lol)


Quote:
How much can we trust this whole myth about them coming over the sea from twelve tribes? I don't sea how much basis is there for a non-seafaring nation without access to the sea.


Since it's a myth, i don't think one can really 'trust' it. (though the HP complicates the matters, see new additions - will be posted later this week (smith?))

Also the main tribe (this too is a myth) tried to escape from the cataclysm of the burning Tree of Life. Along the way, every High God/ess claimed a subtribe among the main tribe and helped them flee the continent (also taught their way of life)

Now back to your second comment :)  : they don't have to be a sea-faring nation at all - if we were to accept another the carpadosian myth - Remember: the main land mass wasn't diveded into "continents" by great seas/oceans then.

(see history)

so basically this is what we came up with Smith (more detail soon)

under a priestesses (and of course the Goddess') leadership, the sub-tribe immigrates into Nybelmar - settled somewhere south or center

around 10 000 bS War of the Chosen
Menemronn begins his invasion
the subtribe [nnn] is once again forced to "move" out of harm's way (they immigrate west - more detail, along with the geo. info on where they immigrate to - see breaking - [this time the lands are supposed to be "secluded" and "protected"
])

rest of the history (along with the 6 empires of the earth-tribe) coming soon...

(though, how soon, I cannot say)


Quote:
Must it be Sarthera?

I don't quite get this. Smith says you only talk about the name, but I still suspect you are also referring to the territory the earth-tribe is going to be on? Of course, you can have anything you want Koldar! You were the one who first worked on Nybelmar! You deserve to shape the development on this continent.

But... can I pleeaaaaaaaaaaaase keep them in that region - with a different name? (can it remain sarthera until I find a new name, otherwise I have to change all the posts above one by one...)

The spider-queen [nnn] has nothing to do with the HP (lucky spider) - Smith will , i believe, mail you about this.

No-one has ever seen the "spider-queen" - the HC has only negotiated with her ambassadors. She doesn't resemble Lloth either (that's why i need a new name for her)

In fact the "spider-queen" is the "Queen" of all the shady business going on in Sarthera (established long before the 6th empire - the underground queens just did not let themselves to be known) and possibly is one of the strongest Crime Lords of the West.

She has an army formed from criminals and mercinaries all over the continent (mostly those who seek her protection, running away from law). these go under a VERY strict/harsh training before they join her ranks. No-one knows, (or very few, definetely not the HC) that the Spider Queen is the same person with the Infamous Lady of Crime.

So basically all the thieves, assassins, illegal trade guilds (including the Venom Lords) take their orders from the LoC - who is in fact the SQ as mentioned above. She has - for the last couple of years - been trying to purchase her way into the Guild of the Just Tongues (lawyers/judges)


And yes, no-one likes the notion of the country being dependant on this Spider-Queen they know nothing about, and has some pretty bad rumors about her (as the SQ, apart from the L of C)

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« Reply #12 on: 17 February 2004, 20:15:00 »

hmmm.. I had a few other things in mind about that discussion...

ok, let's make it a bit easier for everybody (a synthesis, I asked...)

- this tribe has some stories about their origins which claim some distant lands where everything was going perfect (like a garden of eden). They mention the existance of a big tree assuring the life in good understanding of all the races/tribes. They also mention a great cataclysm which basically scattered all the peoples throughout the world. It seems logical that they would believe now this distant land to be either gone (destroyed) either out of reach.

- other stories of this tribe would then tell about how they were trying to rebuild their lifes on a different land (meaning "here" in Nybelmar) when a mage/wizard/priest (whatever name it suits them, actually) of great evil sought to enslave them and destroy everything again. They fled to escape that evil grasp somewhere in the west of Nybelmar. (btw - this evil guy is of course, Menemronn - though they don't necessarily have to know his name, it's a myth after all)

- they were forced then to migrate once again (more to the west) to seek more peacefull lands - the guidance of their priestess would come in handy here. The place from where they will migrate now, could be the same place from where lots of other migratory waves would come during the history of Nybelmar (I'm thinking about the Pagans of Anpagan, the Kassites, and perhaps Victhorin's barbarians...)

- they reach the area which now would be their territory and I guess that there they would experience the rise of their first true great civilisation. They "erect" that new Tree by embedding their priestess in it (and thus managing to get a basically imortal leader and a special kind of tree). Stories of some kind of structures built by this civ, that would serve the purpose of traveling to another world, might exist - of course now the knowledge of using those portals would be long gone.

- stories about dwarves teaching them various crafts might exist too (and if those dwarves are now gone, we have already a compromise)

- it's up to you now to think how they developed in time, about their rise and fall...

- the next important thing would be the Year of Darkness and your story about that Breaking. My guess at what you told me was that another human tribe (supposedly of the same origins - or maybe just those that refused another migration), worshipping fire instead of earth, tried an invasion or something (could be also religious issues or anything else). In this process various things happen - among them the Year of Darkness, which they would believe that was caused by their high priestess of that time.



Ok, I hope I got it right.

About that Spider Queen, I must say that I have no idea what Lloth is [blushes]... Anyway, I would restrain these Crime Lords to this tribe's territory at least for now. It's a bit hard to picture this network stretching also in the east, and the west is still mainly blank.

PS: if I look better I guess this could be a starting point for a western concept - though there are still lots of loose ends scattered in the west Nybelmar (the third shadow, a possible dwarven exodus after the Menemronn war, the orcal raids into Loreney, the half-orcs and their wargs, the "pool" of migratory human tribes...) we just need to have the courage to begin. [looks at the amount of work still to be done in the east] Uh... well... yeah... :)  

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« Reply #13 on: 18 February 2004, 10:01:00 »

Well, beside place and time there are really only few conceptual problems I see, nothing concerning the idea itsself but its interaction with other places in history.

What bothers me quite much is in fact that these guys are humans but have a longer history than the Kaýr who are in part immortal lightelves. Nybelmarian history should at earliest start after the War of the Chosen and I currently find their myths a bit too close to the Carpa'dosia. When the Carpa'dosia would be fact this would be no problem, problem is,it is just an elven myth so it is nothing humans would just adopt for fun. I'd like to have this earliest myth to be more abstract and independant, not a direct copy/adaption of the elven myth of Santharia. We cannot even take the unified landmass theory for granted here (also elven myth till now), in the memory of the humans it would be lost in any case. Don't change any of the essentials but make it more independant.

We must not forget that we have with a starting point of the war of the Chosen roughly 12000 years of recorded history, this three times as much as we generally with few exceptions like Egypt reconstructed on Earth and everything beyond 1000BC is vague at best. In the same sense everything older than 6000 years should be considered only rather rough, only elves would still remember such times and probably not bother much about the little feuds of humans and others.

If possible I'd like to have the dwarves as the mythical teachers of these humans. Reason for this is that I want them to be rare on Nybelmar and when they now pop up everywhere Menemronn's power of destruction would be all but a joke. In that sense I'd find it more appealing if they appear as mythical figures to these humans. Also I don't think it suits dwarves to mix with other people. I'd like to keep them secluded from others if possible.

Last but not least, given that these people once were a big empire means we need to evaluate place and time where they might fit best. By my feeling I'd move them more to Neytherrion Benderath and the coastline there, that way they'd be closer to other civilized places and eventually influence the creation of the cities of Zhun or some hassle with the old empire of Korweyn.
I'd rather keep the center of Nybelmar free of human cities and a human Earth tribe who forges an empire should have loads of towns, castles and monuments even when most of them now lie in ruins.


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« Reply #14 on: 18 February 2004, 10:25:00 »

you know, maybe it will work to have several civilisations one on top of the other... with some rather long gaps between them (about 1k years for instance). In essence they would have the same origins (they are the same type of people but with different periods of civilized life). This could also lead to a lot of their history being regarded as myth - just what you suggested.

of course, this would mean for coren/ailin to differentiate them a bit more (and think what features each of these periods had)

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