* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Print
Author Topic: Sarthera - now open to discussion  (Read 9072 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Ailin Ioeil Seafra Cyeall
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 37


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: 18 February 2004, 10:46:00 »

Hmm... I guess I really have to get my lazy fingers here and write the Breaking before further discussion takes place.

In the beginning there were two places I thought for this tribe (one is the Sartheran lands - the "heart" of the various empires (is mainly located around this area, more or less) streches from the Inner Sea all the way across Moredein Juisten (including the forest above it - this is very essential) up to the Mountains of Daeinionlvyleth)

And then I thought about NW most peninsula (including Moredein Kaerath and the forests around it, with the natural borders being the mountain range below it) Although this fits most of the history (and the dwarven myths) as well as the production part, there are a few problems:

1) since they are no sea-faring nation, they'd rather be isolated there - no chance for (various) great empires, dominating various other places that are independent kingdoms nowadays.

2) This doesn't suit the Breaking...

PS: @smith: I don't think the Year of Darkness would fit here, a) due to the time issues b) according to Santharian belief/cosmology (no matter how little effect it may have on Nybelmar) - though I guess it would have been cool to have these two seperate incidents "coinciding" at the same year...

@Koldar: There are three problems concerning the change in place that I can pinpoint now:

1) Most great empires had been "geographically" lucky - especially during their first years. Neytherrion Benderath and the coastline there doesn't provide them enough protection - consider the power of Menemronn's armies, they're still too close to all that. And again I won't have any forests that would suit the tribe there.

2) Most great empires - especially during their first years and the beginning of expansion period - did not have great "rivals" or strong countries (both military and economically) around them that would hinder their movement & development. It's quite unlikely for them to be able to erect that tree and conquer large portions of land without interference from the Cities of Zhun (spies, assassins) and the the old empire of Korweyn. (i know these come way later than my tribe... but still: until the ToA was "built" and (several centuries later) HP realized her great power, and the Temple controlled most of Sartheran - argh, sub-triben - politics that they had Great Empire (an empire also has to be "great" culture wise to influence others - permanently. It would have been easy for them (the 1st empire) to acquire land but until the 5th or 6th they wouldn't have been a major socio-economic/politic/military force in Western Nybelmar. Also it doesn't make sense for an "Earth" empire - who knows almost nothing of the sea - to build their homes right on the coastline...

Note on dwarves: They don't mix with other ppl. They are secluded in their underground cities, they don't even bother to "report" to the HC - whom they were thought (by the HC) to be vassals (?) to. They only acknowledge the HP, if that can even be called "taking suggestions" (not even orders) from her  every once in a while.

Logged
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: 18 February 2004, 11:03:00 »

the Breaking

(this is a viewed as a myth - even by most Sartherans/sub-tribens)

a synthesis of the latest discussion with Smith:
(summarized/organized most of the content, Smith's comments in italics)

>>Mr. Nnn has plans about gathering a vast army that would crush the entire west etc.

>>>the sartherans (earth) and one of the other sub-tribes (fire) [this also is troublesome, where did they come from? why to the same place with earth? Earth + fire ally vs. this Nnn (who might use/create the race that would become/is the orcal? or koldar's half orc race?)

btw, those half-orcs were created by menemronn to be his core soldiers. they went loose after the war as the murmillions didn't accept them among them


>>>but later on - when the war goes bad  (during the final battle)?? - Fire secretly allies with Nnn(so they could claim the Sartheran lands)

(btw: there were major arguments in the councils, temple about this "combined force" but the hp disregarded all of them saying this was to "consume" (by burning) the "bad roots" (Nnn) to open way for better things

>>the following directly from the history:

*the invasion of the Guardian Forest*
* main Sartheran trapped from two ends *
** HP is infuriated**
** the Temple Heads of the Inner Circle call the HP (they arrive via the portals - last usage) ***
*the HP is calmed by the other HP *
* ambush in the Sacred Woods, a group of priestesses and wisps slaughtered *

(the sacred forest is invaded by a group of soldiers led by the elite officers of the fire army) - actually they can only reach the outskirts of the forest

(btw, i was thinking before the breaking there was a vast forest streching all the way from pallaeion faern to the mountains of daern... (so no sea there yet. an area 'secluded' by mountains (the lands promised by the goddess - protected))

>>>the HPs of the other temples (who were teleported here during the hp's first tantrum) once again calm her down. she is almost ready to let the army and the councils handle this "diplomatically"/ with soldiers

>>but then the intelligence agency reports another "secret" force that has trapped the main sartheran army from the back (also there are the elite forces of fire scattered in the earth army - so they are surrounded on all sides and from the inside)

>>entire villages are burned, temples corrupted by the fire army (coming from the back) along the way, ppl are crying for the goddess/ hp to save them

>>>>she had already suspected something like this so during the second tantrum (sacred woods thing) she had "mentally" ordered all her priestesses to bury (only heads left out to breathe) themselves in the Soil of judgement (or a similar "blessed" place) after they "seal" all the local temples/shrines.(the other hps and the council does not know of this yet) so, through her "roots" (may refer to a xeua link btw the hp and her followers rather than the toa's real roots) she is connected to  ALL the priestesses in the entire empire (the empire was VERY strong then)

>>>the slaughtering begins, half the sartheran army is killed in a much obscene and violent way, the leader of Fire mocks the HP and calls her to the battlefield (sarcasm, she can't move)  in front of the public. the remaining force of earth retreat to the guardian forest

by this time the hp had already begun her spell of "draining" the power/life force of the priestesses burried in the temples' soil (the fire army can't reach the temples, they are magically shut)

when the other hps find out about this they suspect the madness that is about to come and beg the hp to stop /reconsider, but its too late - she has already shut herself in the "throne" room

>>>a few things happen at this point:

1- the council: knowing that the hp is up to something they order a force of their main army to hold back the attackers/sway them , while another portion helps evacuate (into underground shelters built by the dwarves?) the villages (they act as a total hypocryite - bah - on one hand they support the Hp on the other they "secretly" move the entire population out of her way

2- dark clouds gather around the toa's "head" (then the lightning storms start, it's total darkness in the inner circle)

3- from the actual "ROOTS" of the toa the Hp gathers all the energy she can find a) from the followers b) from the lifeforce of the planet/continent ("earth") itself

so, small/disturbing/kinda "hints" quakes around the tree (as if the vibrations are coming from all directions, centered around the tree) in the inner circle - later in the entire kingdom

the other hps try to break in, the hp tells them strictly (maybe chains them too) that they must not interfere

4.by this time, the crystal have begun to vibrate and glow a piercing green, emenates enough rays to illuminate the entire underground passages - perhaps the hp is building/storing her power -  partially - in these

this goes on for some time…

now: the hp too is illuminated by a strange green light that comes from within (eyes, hair etc.) (she had also ordered the two earth stones, see my comment on them in the forums)

the stones are again a bit tricky (and not really my "turf";)  it's Koldar idea, anyway, about the darkstone or earth I guess it's no problem, but the lightstone is supposed to be held by the Kayr elves –check with Koldar

she has lost herself in her chant - the wisps are frantically moving around/dancing around the tree (every second their number increases) as if weaving a complicated rune pattern in the earth tongue

5- ppl in the entire kingdom on their knees begging the goddess for mercy - including the council - even the other hps are shocked (btw the hp in her chant utter the most secret, terrible, (that should not be spoken) names - or power words- of the goddess as her "seed" runes (expl. later) complete darkness all over the kingdom - the leader of fire is on his knees thinking of what he has indeed asked for.
a vast column of sickly green light is shot from the temple (like in lotr3), the earth begans to tremble - started from the tree (though nothing in the inner circle is effected)
(there is also a myth I need to talk to you about that happens in between all this)

the hp crushes/collapses the land underneath the fire armies and cities (this is how the "fire" ppl are wiped out, which is quite good - out of the dev stuff)

>>there still is a second fire army around the sartheran army and in the sacred woods, so hp's solution:

(this is real tragy-comic, ironic) she re-animates (necromancy - basically she has crossed all the borders) the army that was slaughtered by them, plus (maybe this is a bit too far-fetched) all the former dead sartherans on that spot (whose bones are still there) to haunt the fire army and damn them until eternity

*this is a too detailed story to be placed in the beginning of times. but you have that darkness thing which can be a good hint to tell when all this happened
* The Year of Darkness (1640 bS)


but the spells (she is trying to weave the strongest two spells ever seen in her kingdom at the same time, and all by herself) get out of control.... a vast area of the "guardian forest" collapses - forming all the islands, bays in btw the afore mentioned area (an expl to why there is still "a broken mountain range" there)

the undead army now hunts the outskirts of what is left from the Sacred Woods
the hp imprisoned/almost dead/drained by her terrible "web" of spells

Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Smith in Exile
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: 18 February 2004, 18:15:00 »

Now now, if someone is going to tell me now that the Year of Darkness is not a fact to be applied to all Caelereth I am going to be very very angry! >:  I mean after such an exhausting discussion lasting several forum pages in which I tried to avoid such a phenomenon for Murmillions, a discussion ending with my acceptance of this fact...

So the bottom line would be that any nation living in that period of time anywhere in this world would have to mention something about that darkness thing (of course, I'm talking about civilized tribes).

Another thing: Coren you forget an important fact. The west and the east are separated. There are suppose to be few contacts between them. So carefull with any possible Korweynite contacts. I actually would advise for none.

Zhun doesn't necessarily need to be contemporary to your guys. Actually what I suggested earlier was that it might work for you to have more than one structure (call it empire/kingdom/whatever) during time. For instance: between 5000-3000 bS you would have the Great Empire of X or something. A cataclysm, a war, just decadence, anything, happens in some point and they are condemned to oblivion. Yet on their ruins, their great-great-great-grandsons would start everything from the beginning => another kingdom but of the same people...

About Menemronn: the only way in which it works (if you want your tribe to be that old) is to place this tribe somewhere in the southeast or south first (together with the other humans). The will seek refuge in the west to escape Menemronn. That's all. (and if we all agree about that "pool" of migratory human tribes in the west, than you'll need to make a stop with your tribe there too.)

Logged
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: 19 February 2004, 08:54:00 »

Quote:
The west and the east are separated. There are suppose to be few contacts between them. So carefull with any possible Korweynite contacts. I actually would advise for none.
Exactly! That's part of what I was trying to say...

Year of Darkness: Probably it did happen all around the world - well Caelereth is a disk after all - however, I'm not sure if Artimidor would let different tribes have their explanations to this mythical event.

I am already working on a basic division between those empires. Planning to have about 9 of them, with several hundreds of 'chaos' between some.

Menemronn: *wonders why he can't express himself the way he wants to* Aha, that was what i tried to write. And that is why I would rather stay in where the tribe was supposed to be... It doesn't make sense to settle to the other end of a hill (or mountain range, whatever ;)  )to escape from someone like Menemronn...

Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: 19 February 2004, 10:03:00 »

I'm sorry, but currently there are too much different details flying around and I get difficulties to see the big picture.

What kind of empire do you want at what time. E.g. when the empire at one point owned Zhun I'd think that a good thing, if they at one point had a great army and got into conflict with the old Korweynite empire, that's a good thing.
I just don't want this empire placed somewhere for the sole reason that it then has no connection with already elaborated things, we should try to incorporate this in already existing ideas to merge concepts and already get connections and depedancies early on so we are clear on things when we flesh it out.

I'm sorry if I mix things up when I now have other ideas on Sarthera and would like to move your empire closer to other human space, main thing might be that Sarthera is the oldest conceptual name for Aca-Santerra, it got removed when we decided that Orcal does not really work in the east and should get into the more mythical west.

I'll open an extra thread so we can maybe organize the west of Nybelmar a bit better. I currently stumble over too many details to see straight here, that's good when you've already such a clear picture of your people but I have a real big deal in seeing what your needs are for your ideas and where to fit them.

PS: Smith, the Year of Darkness is fact, but earlier things like the one island theory are more shaky, a concept shouldn't depend on it to be true as it is a story of prehistorian times. The Year of Darkness is an event that at some point must be incorporated in every tribe's history because though its reason is unknown it affected every individual on Caelereth.That's why the Santerrans have their story about it and other need one, too. I don't think it must be a terrible event for anyone but it should be worth mentioning as it must have been terrifying indeed.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Logged
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: 19 February 2004, 10:18:00 »

Hmm... What do you think I do next then? Cleaning up / tidying the various entries (1st drafts), or should I wait until a place for this tribe is decided upon? (it'd be really difficult for me to write the history of a tribe that goes to 10 000 bS without knowing its neighbors etc, geological information concerning the area etc)

Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Smith in Exile
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: 19 February 2004, 10:45:00 »

I guess you could try to divide them into those periods and think about the basic features of each of them. That could be an excellent starting point (or plan) for you later.

The territories and history are not that important in this stage as they will come in later when we will confront your tribe's characteristics with the others.

Try to think of a name for them. :)

@Koldar: Hmmm... so you suggest that we should plant this tribe more to the south? (so to be possible for them to have contacts with Zhun, Korweyn and Anpagan?) Perhaps they could be like that missing link between Zhun and Anpagan? I guess it will work, though we need to know that from the beginning (as I will have to adjust some of the Anpagan things accordingly, as you will have to adjust some of the Korweynite things...) Maybe it would be better to begin from the Korweynite timeline once again - to see when they had that hassle with this empire, and start to arrange their history from there.

PS: Oh, what if we move Zhun in that southwesternmost peninsula and place this tribe on the current Zhun's territories? (though that would mean to change the name of that desert which is now north of Zhun)

Logged
Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: 19 February 2004, 11:10:00 »

Depending on the development of this empire I even consider Zhun once being a vital part of the empire also as an option.  Depends all a bit what the strength of the empire is. Korweyn is centralistic like Rome but with the six empires and stuff it somehow reminds me currently more about what was going on in Mesopotania with every citystate citing power at one point building one empire after the other on always the same soil.

I'd like to have the empire further south, to have a belt of human civilizations, but of course we should think about some other issues like all these "barbarians" coming one way or the other into the east. However I'd consider that a different cultural level than the urban civilizations of the southern coast. The later I'd like to keep close to each other.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Logged
Smith in Exile
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: 19 February 2004, 11:20:00 »

sounds fine (the belt). So where do we put them?

(this southern belt would make Loreney a bit isolated? well, they are suppose to be the playball between Aca-Santerra and R'unor anyway)

Logged
Koldar Mondrakken
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 1
Offline Offline

Posts: 3.724



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: 19 February 2004, 11:25:00 »

I thought Loreney as different, thus the different creation, not really a grown civilization but forced together under pressure and not as advanced as the southern tribes.

I opened another thread for the whole concept, including where to put this Earth empire and to discuss what else we place where in the west. I think it's also time to decide how strong and evil the Chyrakisth really are. ;)  


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Logged
Smith in Exile
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: 19 February 2004, 11:28:00 »

oh yes, Chyrakisth! I was waiting for them for a long time now ;)  

Logged
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: 24 February 2004, 11:33:00 »

So guys, aside from the history (which is likely to take about a month), what should I do with this tribe? (and of course aside from the nnns)

Btw: I'll be using Smith's suggestion regarding wisps...I hereby declare that they'll be called 'whisps' until someone comes up with the earth-tongue version... LOL that sounds way too arrogant...

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/23/04 18:43
Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Smith in Exile
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: 25 February 2004, 18:24:00 »

The tribe entry should be the first. But since you don't have the names yet or the guidelines for history (how many kingdoms, when etc.) that could be quite hard.  

Logged
Victhorin
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 327



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: 01 March 2004, 16:53:00 »

I know I'm coming in rather late in this discussion and as usual my eyes got on the word "dwarves".

@Koldar and Smith correct me if I'm wrong here:

Quote:
*** the War against Menemronn starts / ends ***

* Dwarven Exodus (before or after the greatWar starts?)


First of all what does the word "exous" mean? Extermination?

If that is the case, and I hope it is, you are talking about the Deep Dwarves, as they were the ones that got crushed under the mountains. I would say that the Deep Dwarves all died during the WoC. Menemeronn wiped them out.

I like the idea about the dwarves being mythical teachers to them. But they can only be there in the beginning, to start them out. That's what I think anyway.


Unpatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Logged
Smith in Exile
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 4
Offline Offline

Posts: 964



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: 01 March 2004, 19:55:00 »

Dwarves took part of that mythical battle too. After it ended the story says that they departed towards the west. And with all of their homes being wiped out during the war we would have a dwarven exodus. The Tyr Faerath guys are an exception since they were overlooked (and didn't fight the last battle actually), but the rest of the remaining dwarves are "displaced" - that's how the plain dwarves appeared, for instance...

deep dwarves? I guess their fate is related to the whole dwarven picture in Nybelmar - so we need a concept. I guess you could have something to say/do here ;)  

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[27 March 2019, 00:01:57]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1019
Latest: lolanixon
Stats
Total Posts: 144586
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 32
Online Ever: 700
(23 January 2020, 20:05:39)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 35
Total: 35

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx