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Author Topic: Anpagan vs Krath  (Read 7444 times)
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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #15 on: 25 June 2004, 08:12:00 »

That's more or less the same as I put it, the Zhunites seperated themselves from the empire and tried to go their own way, you must however consider what the empire will do to prevent that. When mutual cooperation does not work anymore, an centralistic empire, esspecially one mixed up in a war, will resort to less nice procedure. From the empire's point of view what your Zhunite families do for their own good is no less than high treason against the empire. I don't think your empire should let such a thing slide without trying to keep control.
But I think mainly we're aiming at the same thing, I just try to look at what I as evil overlord would do, when one fourth to one fifth of my empire just decided to go independant or deny me troops when I need them.

What I however currently don't quite understand is when the Anpagans come into play. They cannot just found cities in Krathian territory even if the Krath themselves would not build ports. I mean a country cannot just decide to populate another's territory because they think they can use it better. Such a bold attempt does not really work out nice. They can establish a political influence on the Zhunites by offering aid when the empire is not nice again but their imperialistic behaviour should come some time after they kicked the krathian empire out of the place.

But I think I'll wait for the fleshed out history of these events. Don't want to meddle into your affairs too much.


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« Reply #16 on: 25 June 2004, 08:27:00 »

Actually please do meddle :)  The more we are working on this the better will be.

About Anis-Anpagan founding colonies there:

I was thinking about some kind of a treaty. The Anpagans ask for those sites to build their ports in exchange of some large payments. Also having these ports as trading-posts makes the trade a lot more easier (not that other solutions wouldn't work, it's about diplomacy here). When the war starts they could supply the Krath with various war-machines (in which Anpagans are quite specialists) built in these ports. The thing is that in time, these ports will become a place of refuge/immigration for the local Krath unhappy for some reason or another => they will develop their own identity.

The golems are starting to be built in Anpagan after 1689 bS. So if the war against Orcal is still active then => now the Krath really would have an interest in keeping the Anpagans happy. (although I was thinking that these golems were used more by the Zhunites struggling for their independence)

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #17 on: 25 June 2004, 09:11:00 »

Tradeposts in the cities is logical, it's the founding cities with ports which I find not quite fitting, a country does not just give away land. I'd assume that even the Krathians would find fishing a very good way to get food so while they wouldn't have ports explicitly built for large cargo vessels I'd expect at least some river ports to trasnport goods along the rivers and fishing boats to be also. Just being denoted an Earth tribe does not exclude this natural opportunity to leave unwasted.

I see the Anpagan influence more in being the guys who bring all these goods over the sea and offer some nice things the Krathians cannot find anywhere within their realm. This will give them already enough of an influence. As long as the trading is profitable there's no reason for them to get involved with Krathian domestic policy, only when the empire shows a weakness they can fill in easily they might try to establish full control over certain cities.

About the Golems I might imagine that they're thought-after by Krathians and Zhunites alike. It would be interesting imo when the Orcristh manage to bring the Gorbas on their side (or at least neutral), the Krathians will then seek some replacement for that gap in their army and then you've the broadgrinning Anpagans who offer muskets--- eh golems to use for that purpose.:D  


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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #18 on: 25 June 2004, 09:35:00 »

:(  I'm sorry koldar, I really am if I offended you in any way. I too greatly appreciate the effort and thought you put into this. And debates :: evil grin :: I love'em! But you must understand, I sometimes sound harsh when I never intended to be that way since i'm not a native speaker. :D

Hmmm.. I only see one problem left now (and sorry for being such a big *ss): The Orcal war ended with the Breaking. I don't know how much this would mess Smith's plans, but the only way to use Golems is if they were invented prior to this. Or:

After the Breaking - no wait a sec. After the Seperation (with the priestesses gone) Krath can no longer handle the Gorbas. From this point on pretty much what Koldar suggested.

Hmm.. .one more thing :: sighs :: the Spider Queen... I can only think of two things atm: Either Anpagan sided with her to seperate the huge empire of Krath. This way both benefit: Anpagan has its ports and the Spider Queen has a strong ally against the High Council. Probably (if we were to accept that the rumors about her being the head of the Crime Lords to be true) she would support the idea in the first place. With a strong centralistic empire she can't smuggle things across the border without having to pay taxes.

OR: Ooops, i forgot what I was about to say. Hang on.

:: ponders for a few minutes ::

:idea  yes! Maybe... the High Council was so desperate that it had to hire (or even "request"/plea since they no longer have the money) Golems from Anpagan against the Spider Queen. But this sounds too direct. Or... How about the council members hiring a bunch of golems - secretly - to guard themselves against any "unfortunate incidents"?

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #19 on: 25 June 2004, 10:51:00 »

I'm not offended ot something, I just don't want to hamper yours and Smith's efforts by talking too much. I don't want to take control over your concepts and ideas, that's why I said that I want to wait for more info.


About that Spider Queen, might it be possible that it is a Chyrakisth that does that? Depends on how it is in general but I want them to break quite a lot of stuff and have their fingers in about anything that is not just bad but outright evil.

But that thought is for later maybe.

I'd like to see the Anpagans fuel the conflict between Zhun and Krath by secretly supplying both with weapons and Golems. The final outcome could be that this High Council cedes control over Zhun because they cannot afford to fight the Zhunites anymore and Anpagan stands ready to "guarantee" its independance. Machiavelli would be proud!:D  


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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #20 on: 25 June 2004, 12:49:00 »

Are the Chyrakisth powerful mages? We decided that the Spider Queen was a puppet of the mystical Order of Ashalon, which in fact is heavily influenced by the Arkhaen (did I spell this wrong?) Guild of the murmillions.

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« Reply #21 on: 25 June 2004, 18:41:00 »

Hmmm... we might be getting somewhere now.

Ok, we can move the Anpagan colonization a bit more in the "future". Let's say that after that first contact they spent some time playing the nice guys. Because of this incoming trade along with the new mining opportunities in the Zhunite mountains the settlements in the area are starting to develop over their original status of farming facilities. Then a treaty could be issued, by which the empire allows the Anpagans to "improve" their ports (I actually wish for the possibility of some Anpagan communities there :) ).

Later, when the empire gets caught in the conflicts with Orcal, and when Anis-Anpagan itself gets caught in their internal fightings, the Zhunite settlements could receive a large amount of "colonists" - actually Anpagan refugees. (note: the Anpagan civil war is not a full-scale one, but Kings that come and go rapidly, coups, various factions pursuing only their own interests => Zhun is an excellent opportunity)

Now the Golems. They should be produced only after Armand Da'Ran, the "seawyrm tamer", dies. In the unfinished entry on him I mentioned that happening in 1689 bS (still about 40 years before the Year of Darkness). I can move that a bit earlier if you think it would be better for the general timeline (let's say around 1700?). The Golems will be produced by the Mage Guild faction opposed to Daedhirians (and the strongest supporters of the republic - the "winning ticket" after all). I liked the idea of Anpagans fueling the empire's struggles with Orcal and Zhun, while they move towards getting Zhun out of the empire's influence.

Now about the Spider Queen and Arkhaeon or Chyrakisth. You know I also think we could indeed involve the Chyrakisth in this somehow (but I don't know how yet). However, let's see about Arkhaeon. When the Dark Age of Nybelmar begins (after the fall of the first Korweyn, with the treaty between Ehebion and the newfound Anis-Anpagan) there were two main outer-branches of the Arkhaeon Guild. One operating in Fullwanooth, the other on the Korweynite lands. The Korweynite branch will slowly split into more branches as the control issued from Ehebion is loosened more and more. This situation evolves until the state of facts around the Year of Darkness, when the true inner circle of the Guild is severed from the outside world (after the war between Ehebion and Aca-Santerra) => all these outer-branches are left to their own ideas, if they weren't actually already like this. [btw, I'm currently thinking about a later Arkhaeon "offensive" - trying to destroy or assimilate these outer-branches: the story of Kalas Karonn (500 years after the Year of Darkness) that I'm writing now in the Library, will tell how they used this guy to "level" the Moon Hills branch as a side effect to an uprising]
Ok, now, the link with the Spider Queen (I only know Arkhaeon's part though). Such an outer-branch was active in Anis-Anpagan as well. However, in the moment that the clerics of Aseya take over Anpagan city (if Armand dies in 1689 this even should happen around 1700 - we could try to tweak these dates) the Arkhaeon guys will be forced to flee. => they have two options: Kaleman or Zhun. Obviously Zhun is a far more attractive alternative (an "Aseya-free zone" :) ). => there they start to mess with that Ashalon Order => the Spider Queen (I guess).

Anyway, to make a wild guess about what Koldar was thinking, I suppose the Spider Queen could be a Chyrakisth herself... Which brings us to a very interesting situation: Chyrakisth meet Murmillions meet Krath. How do they do that I don't know yet, it's just an idea - but quite in the spirit of this continent, where all the things are tightly interconnected after all (especially in what concerns the humans).

_____

Ok, now let's reorganize a bit.

On a first line, if you agree with these timeline ideas, Coren you should reply to this with another Krath general timeline (so we can get an idea about how things are moving and make further additions or changes). Personally I'm interested especially in the dates.

Then, on a second line, we should discuss the Breaking/Spider Queen/Chyrakisth-Murmillion-Krath stuff.

And on a third line, we must decide who exactly are the Zhunite people.

_____

PS: Benedictus? yes it means something in latin, but does it matter? I find it quite cool. (I ran out of names actually lol)  

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #22 on: 26 June 2004, 03:32:00 »

To be honest, i had only thought of the period between 5500-3000b.S. Now it seems, I have to do some serious thinking to catch up :b

What kind of a timeline do you want from me Smith? Which period should I describe? Also only Krath or Krath/international?

Btw, I'll be leaving on Saturday for a trip to US, so I probably won't be around for three weeks after that. :: sighs :: I feel so bad for abandoning everyone when things started to get in shape...

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"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
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« Reply #23 on: 26 June 2004, 04:09:00 »

Firstly, Korinth - the mage I'm writing about down in the library - MUST dissappear before 2200b.S. I don't want such a strong sorceror messing up our world annihilation plans :evil  That should give enough time for dismay and turmoil before the Earth King rises.

Let's take a short tour to the distant past and into the era of 5000b.S: We still have the Twin Kingdom present (and possibly in its silver years), and a bunch of other small states bickering with each other all over the southern peninsula. The Queen has a strange disease to deal with. It appears in almost every town and wipes half the population away, leaving only distorted bodies and marked faces. The two capitals and all exists to the High Council, and its members are quarantined. (including the Quenns) All the seven sons of the Aesteran Queen are away dealing with some strange occurences over their borders - nothing has been heard of them for the last three seasons. The Lillivear Queen's six daughters are all locked with Her Majesty, trying to formulate the cure. The eldest prince is in charge of the capital's defense. The middling is away in another country (where could this be? and why? studying?). An urgent message asking for immediate help is delivered from one of the grandest town up in the north, bordering the mountain range. The Queen only has his youngest son, whom she cannot get along with very well heh ;) ,  to spare.

Anyway, it turns out that a horde of oversized spiders have flood to the town, and brought the terrifying disease with them - which seems quite impossible due to all those protection runes inscribed in every single block of the city. They have to shut all exists and quarantine every house but the huge administrative building in the town's center, where all the non-inflicted have gathered.

Okay, I don't want to tell to much, because the rest will be my share a Smith-style-story :broadgrin  But I'll say this much: This is the first time the runic structure failed. They could not understand why, nor could do anything about it. After some troublesome years of self imposed imprisonment, the runes start working again - no body knows how or why. The spiders are driven back into the depths of the mountains.

This is also about when the Twin Kingdom decides to join the Krath leage - for protection mostly (in case a similar disaster occurs in the near future).




3366 b.S : I need some more wars/battles or inner turmoil (since the Temple is 'out' again) around this time, but i'm out of ideas. Any suggestions?

The situation in Krath is as follows:

Somehow, the archnemesis of the High Temple (and especially the High Priestess), a.k.a the Guild of Ashalon managed to open a big hole to some demon land/nest - almost literally - right beneath the HP's throne. The Temple is swarmed with these demons (what kind would you advise?) and the entire Temple Guard and bunch of priestesses fight 7/24 to drive the beasts away from the HP's throne room. Luckily - or not so luckily - the attack seems to be centered around the lowest floors of the Tree of Ages. Ah! Right over the chamber where those memory crystals were located - much to the dismay of you-know-who ;)  She can't step in directly, because she fears her power might blow up the entire tree, when used so close to its source - and of course not to mention all those anti-magic spells streching all over :biggrin .

Now to be able to write the rest, I need to know when exactly the Orcal Wars should start. And whatever else you need from Krath.

PS: This was only the part of history i had not mentioned so far.

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« Reply #24 on: 14 July 2004, 10:58:00 »

So, what do you say?

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #25 on: 14 July 2004, 17:00:00 »

basically I'm waiting for you to return and write a new timeline proposal for krath (after all we have discussed here), with dates, events all the stuff. Version 2.0 if you like :)  We'll test it after that ;)  

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #26 on: 19 July 2004, 09:47:00 »

I'm back now!  

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

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"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #27 on: 19 July 2004, 16:28:00 »

what I meant was that I'm waiting for you to return and write the version 2.0... :nod  

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #28 on: 21 July 2004, 08:09:00 »

Smith I had no idea on what was included in the contact I signed under...

This is part A, feel free to help anytime ;)

PS: I'll use the following color-code for quick distinction between the scope of the events and the two kingdoms.

Bold and Green for Krath foreignaffairs
Italics and Green for Krath internal affairs

Bold and Orange for Anpagan foreign affairs
Italics and Orange for Anpagan internal affairs





5060-4940 b.S

Hidden well in the southern-most peninsula of Western Nybelmar, the Twin Kingdom exists in a state of silvery peace and prosperity as the rest of the many Krant tribes battle each other for control all over the southern jungles.

Quite unfortunately for the thriving kingdom, the Queen of the Lillivear too, in the ill-fated year of 5053, is afflicted with the mysterious disease that appeared in and wiped out almost half the population in every town, leaving nothing but distorted bodies and tainted faces. By the end of the Month of the Dead Tree, the two kings are forced by the rising circumstances to quarantine the two awe-inspiring capitals and all entrances to the High Council - as well as its members – until a remedy for the malady is unearthed.

The seven sons of the Aesteran Queen are still missing, with no news from them within the last three seasons they had been away, dealing – if still alive – with some strange occurrences at the borderlands. The family of the Lillivear throne is in no better shape: With the six daughters of the Queen locked by their own hands with their mother, trying desperately to formulate a temporary impediment if not a cure for the devastating illness and the King in a fit of lunacy that began a week after the quarantine’s execution, the capital’s defense is left into the hands of the eldest prince. The middling is away in another country (where and why could this be – studying?) with no means of informing him of the urgency of the situation before it is too late.  

On the second day of the Month of the Turning Star an urgent message, with the seal of the mayor of the grandest town of the northern region, requesting immediate help arrives in the Aesteran capital. The Queen only has his youngest son, who was the unexpected – and to this date obscured - result of an irresponsible night-visit to the winter mansion of the Lillivear King, and whom she cannot get along with very well, to spare.

Today, we know from the half burnt letters found in a cave near (the mountains in the north – nnn) that a horde of oversized spiders had flood to the city in distress and brought the terrible disease with them. Although this seems quite impossible due to all the protection runes inscribed in every single block of the city, the terrible disease apparently had plowed its way even into the splendid lands of the north, far beyond the anticipation of any senator. Due to our limited resources all our scholars could discern was that the exits to the city as well as every house in it had been shut and quarantined. Only the huge administrative building, located in the town center, is still operating and open to the non-inflicted. From what we could decipher from the remnants of these series of letters, we could assert with certainty that this is the first time our, and that of our ancestors, runic structure failed. The people of the time could not identify with the obscure reasons lying behind this awful occurrence, neither can we after countless ages of discovery and progress.

After thirty six years of troublesome self-impose imprisonment, the Gods had finally decided to show some mercy to our ancestors and the runes slowly started to regain their strength. However, much of the city was lost and all we have today, despite the remaining protection runes, is the scattered ruins of a once, by no doubt, city of awe. Although we are terribly shamed to admit, we still do not know how or why this miraculous happening finally came about. Yet, we do know, and with absolute faith in our information, that following the regain of power, the spiders were driven back into the depths of the mountains. Earth forbid any acquaintances with the ghastly beasts in the near future.

Khárín Pthsérhl the Wise,
Senator for the short period between 2703-2690b.S



Foot note of the author:

Following the Salvation, in no more than nine months and sixty four days, the Twin Kingdom joins the Earth League for protection if a similar disaster strikes their beautiful lands yet again.

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #29 on: 27 July 2004, 08:28:00 »

Alright, I'm only going to write the general outline, so feel more than welcome to fill in the gaps.




3700s b.S>: The Earth Council decides to extend its sphere of influence beyond the borders of the southwestern peninsula. In an attempt to provide food for the growing population and interact with whatever creatures might be found outside their wondrous towns, Krath starts the colonization of Zhun. The colonies were first designed as farmlands; rural areas intended for agriculture, with no major settlements for Krants.

Upon discovering the great blue mass, the Krants decide to remain relatively far from the coast, preferring the small rush of rivers to the giant waves of the ocean.




3366 b.S>: A huge hole, where two distinct realities seem exist simultaneously and parallel to each other, opening to a Téi'Hái lair almost literally right beneath the throne of the High Priestess. The lower levels of the High Temple are flocked with these demons. Almost the entire Temple Guard and a good portion of the priestesses take turns to fight and drive the beasts away from the High Priestess through night and day. Luckily, or -as it turned out within a week – not so luckily, the attack seems to be centered on the lowest floors of the Tree of Ages. As the Krant search parties continue on to the deeper levels, much to the dismay of the Temple, they find the chambers right above the caverns the memory crystals are located full of Téi'Hái. The High Priestess of the time is reluctant to step in directly because she fears that her powers, when used so close to its source, might blow up the crystals, and with their explosion the entire temple. And of course, the spells that keep the Téi'Hái a good distance away from the crystals and the rest of the temple also blocks the advance of the Temple Guard.

The Emerald Seat on first thought dreads that the day their runes stop working is upon them. However, it turns out that the arch nemesis of the High Priestess, the Order of Ashalon was behind this scheme.

PS: I need some input and suggestions regarding the kind of conflict we could put in this era.




2981 b.S – The First Contact with the Gorbas. During their mining operations, and the building of the mountain settlements that were meant to serve as trade and transportation centers the blended people of the region discover a specie of giants that are, despite their appearances, quite peaceful and willing to work for the colonies if proper payment and protection from some beasts they call “the Fire Burned” in their language is assured. Thus, in a hundred years, the Gorbas is integrated into the system as a workforce that can accomplish feats and hard labor no human can endure for a reasonable price.




Now how the Anpagan ended up in the Zhunith shores is your area of expertise my exiled friend :)   Looking forward to your part of the entry ;)  


PS: After you complete that era, we can move on to the Orcal wars and how the Anpagan turned out to have such a strong influence over Zhun.

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 7/26/04 16:30
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"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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