* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Political landscape in Nybelmar ~4000 b.S.  (Read 1246 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« on: 10 June 2005, 12:53:00 »

(Restoration of Koldar's original posts as provided by Smith's back up files)

I guess we should try to make a big picture of how the different ages looked like. For these reasons I painted together how I would imagine the continent look like 4000 b.S.

I also included some proposals for the Krathians, Coren, and I hope the Ehebiion empire is as it is supposed to be at that time(Smith, just correct me if I'm wrong)

I should also consider if the elves are already lost in a big civil war or not but I left them out for now.

Here is the map.

What one should know is that around the year 4000 b.S. the Korweynite empire reaches the peak of its power. The Murmillions have been thrown back over the Jerrah and all lands from west to east are ruled by the emperors of Kormendale. At this time the empire also starts to become decadent and starts to oppress anyone else with military force making anyone in their reach their vasalls( even the Highdwarves!  )

The map shows the extend of their power in reds and orange. The reds showing the core and the conquests of the empire, the orange the reach of their military control (their sphere of influence where anyone has to obey to their will or risk a military confrontation).

A series of bad emperors will deteriorate this situation till 3200 b.S. when the Ehebion empire will defeat them. Till then they'll already have lost anything that is orange as well as the peninsula of Anpagan(Smith, I figured there could be his greater part should be ancient Anpagan, just because I wanted to be mean and make them even lose half of their homeland to the second empire at one point , but that's open for discussion)

As one can see I reduced a bit the Krathrian holdings. Sorry, Coren. It's mainly some minor things but I thought it would feel better that way.

The dark green part (with the white stuff) should be their core from which the various empires could originate and my proposal how one could divide the territory by geographic borders(that where in ancient times also usually the political ones because it was easier to accept a river as border as an imaginary line through over land). You can of course change that as you like, important is imo only to add the Krathian main cities and that any empire should originate from one of the powerful metropoli to rise to their power.

Now to my adjustments: The dark green is the core that is populated by the various Krathians, given that I decided that the olive(green-brown) are their conquests ( I guess it would be more logical then that the Zhunites were subdued people until the Krathian power diminished). The light green part - which is territory they controlled for some time, I reduced to a border that is easy to hold. Again mostly rivers pose as point of reference and I indicated with blue the area(100-200 strals) in which they might've entrenched that part with a wall. More like the Roman Limes than the Chinese great wall but if the Chinese would've had a river I don't think they'd have built a wall in the first place.
The reasons for limiting the light green area is mainly because I still see it as difficult to expand all the way through a desert and then get a hold of nomadic people. So I'd figured it would be better to look at this territory as a planned colonial endevour. In seek for new lands to control the pushed through the desert and grabbed as much land as they could up to a convenient border, then entrenched the border and started to populate the secured lands with colonists. Any further expansion was halted because the nomads were more resistant than expected and so after unsuccessful campaigns, an entrenched border was established.

Second reason is egoistic. I planned for Nybelmar that the first Korweynite empire(the second will be smaller in terriotry but stronger in population/economy) should be greater than any other before or after its time, thus I cannot give you all that territory.  

However it is still comparable to the Korweyn empire with more than 2000 strals in diameter each and Korweyn only more territory north-south.

Orcal as a doorstopper to prevent the Krathians to expand northward (again everywhere through deserts) is imo reasonable, still I figure some of the military campaigns by the Krathians should be aimed at subdueing the Orcristh or at least pillage their gold rich cities(the later can happen once or twice).

After much consideration I'm against a change in the coastline through some cataclystic event. On Earth there's nothing short to an asteroid impact that could cause such change and though magic might be capable to do so I just figure that a catastrophe that could destroy so much would also have impact on the rest of the continent - if not the world.
I'd thus propose that the earthquakes you need, should far more localized only destroying a certain region and not changing the coastline in recognizable manner. The latter should be reserved for divine events and the War of the Chosen. Deforestation and desertification are things that can still happen as they come for climate change or human interference and do not need forces capable of changing the sealevel or the continental shelf.

Phew, I hope my explanations sound reasonable enough and should not be too critical to cause major problems. Anyhow this is still only my viewpoint and as such open for suggestions.  


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 6/9/05 20:54
Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #1 on: 10 June 2005, 12:54:00 »

(Reply from Coren)

Ooops, I think i forgot to mention that the largest borders of the empire was right before the year of darkness. This is what i'm thinking: (great borders btw. can't see the divisions - the blue one etc - properly though)

Around/between 6000-4800 bS: Only the dark green area.Without the southern most mountains - (before 5500 dwarves still ?)

4000b.S: The olive area included. Btw, I need more parts from zhunith mountain range - for the Gorbas. Also I don't think it's logical for the orcs to be able to drive Krath back in mountain war.

3500-3000 bS: Most of the Zhunith mount. range. Some of the mountains bordering the Inner Sea. Possibly a small portion of land on the other side as well.

@Koldar: There's one problem. There wasn't a desert in the area you mentioned before late 3000bSs. Probably better if the desertification happened after the Breaking - which would still give the ppl about 3500 years to kinda adapt to it. I think 3000+ years is enough for that. But tell me what you think

The light green area (at least half of it also was added during this period)

Actually I'd like it more if Krath expanded after the Korwenite descend began. Doesn't have to watch its eastern borders all the time.

Can we include a similar influence-range for Krath?


after 3000bS: This depends on the Korwenites. I'm not too knowledgable about eastern Nyb. history so you need to help me out here  Even as their descend began, and mostly after it became clear that they would not be able to hold the light orange-yellow area anymore, Krath starts to expand further east. You can tweak the territory I showed accordingly (so that it's not too huge) but I need to get pretty close to Venlaken and also Tyr Faerath should be in their influence chamber. That shouldn't be too difficult since Tyr Faerath controled more land then (am i right?)

Your divisions work perfectly for the 4000bS era. Thanks a lot Koldar for all the effort  But I'd like to keep a similar design to mine (without the coasts if this is your final word on the issue. But if so, can you sort of reduce the sizes a bit but keep the shape and expansion diagram similar?) for the period btw 5500-4700bS.

Other than that I have no objections. You gave far more land to Krath than I imagined for that era, heh. I guess I'll have to act properly and give some of it back...

One question about the map: What's the purple and the bluish green territory in the east?


PS: I have some ideas for the forest north of sarthera and the elves living there. Can i discuss them here? Has nth to do with Krath btw. Just a few thoughts on their city designs and mages.


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #2 on: 10 June 2005, 12:56:00 »

(Reply from Koldar)

Ok, with the desert thing, I agree. Would still assume the eastern expansion to end where I put it. Any kind of conquest east of it should be temporarily. You might get some tribute from there for a few years but as has been pointed out.
The light green area however can be expanded to the borders of Orcal to the west if you want.

The mountain range thingie: It's extremely difficult to cross a mountain range when there're no roads and maybe even passes over the mountains are missing. I thus thought that any offical border would end their. But don't think to dividing here. Gorbas can roam both sides of the mountains and the area is still vast. Maybe there are some outposts on the northern side of the mountains, etc. I'd just think that crossing the mountains would be too tiresome to expand into a strong enemy(orcs are nasty fellows everywhere. That they might lose does not mean it would be worth it for Krath to go there). The border I drew is still rough.

The light green area is currently actually the same as the orange of the Korweynites. It shows territories of primarily military control. As there are no major cities or settlements you'd need colonization to create prosperity there. The Korweynites will mainly subdue the native population, maybe your people want to create new cities (but settlement fails due to the desertification).

The problem with your expansion eastward is that with the treaty between Anpagan and Ehebion, Anis-Anpagan will replace Korweyn in the west. While not as powerful they'd still try to get some scraps of these orange parts to build their own empire.

The blue are just the small symbols in the east.

So generally it's fine but I included borders of a later Krath?

Quote:
Your divisions work perfectly for the 4000bS era. Thanks a lot Koldar for all the effort But I'd like to keep a similar design to mine (without the coasts if this is your final word on the issue. But if so, can you sort of reduce the sizes a bit but keep the shape and expansion diagram similar?) for the period btw 5500-4700bS.


Do you mean with divisions the white ones? They're just how I'd divide the area, maybe if you could say where the most important cities lie it becomes more obvious what certain empires would do. However a map that shows how each Krathanian empire originated is a different matter anyway, here I just try to draw the political situation at a certain time in history.



The purple area is the Ehebion kingdom, the blueish stuff, the region of Santerran and related tribes. After some thought I decided that the Santerrans who claim to come from a faraway country in the east actually are descendants of the Endi who lived along the coast of the mainland in the west. Thus the switching of the directions just occured to enhance the story of the creation myth (and to raise them above anyone else in living in Nybelmar). Actually the ancestors of the Santerrans fled from the Murmillions when they took their land.  


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #3 on: 10 June 2005, 12:57:00 »

(Reply from Koldar)

Fine:

Another map here.

I made the changes. As said, this should only represent the situation around 4000 b.S. (at the height of the Korweynite empire), the next stage I'll set following its defeat around 3200 b.S.

colour code:

red-orange: Korweynite empire
green-olive: Krath empire
purple: kingdom of Ehebion
light blue-blue: Santerran territories
rose: Kaleman realms
turquiose: Kayrrhem
bright blue: Elves of the Autumn Forest
brownish red: Orcal
dark grey spots: regions of influence of the Chyrakisth

undecided realms:
yellow: Sarthera elves (still nomadic at that point)
blue grey: territory of nomad population (origin of the Kassite)

On the laster it's a bit hard to decide wether to include them, I'd figure that kingdoms have definite borders while nomadic tribes have not.

In the next step Krath will gain the light green area(and maybe some stuff formerly Korweynite), Tyr Faerath will become independant again and the Korweynite empire fragmented between Anpagan, Ehebion and its placeholders.

But that's for another thread...  


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[27 March 2019, 00:01:57]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1019
Latest: lolanixon
Stats
Total Posts: 144586
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 22
Online Ever: 700
(23 January 2020, 20:05:39)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 31
Total: 31

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx