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Author Topic: Some comments on the upcoming Chapter 5 of Capher  (Read 2799 times)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« on: 28 October 2001, 08:22:00 »

Upon integrating chapter 5 I came accross some things which I thought should be mentioned here:

- There's a discrepancy between your Aiclia/Xylonia concepts. In the Compendium entry you mention that Aiclia died very young and that Xylonia led the tribe further south. In the chapter you state that it was Aiclia. Well, I therefore corrected the following sentences:

"Xylonia, the daugther of Gaia’s youngest daughter Aiclia, led our tribe further south and we lived in the area where the Bear Clan lives."

"It was already during the reign of Xylonia that things changed again."

- Months: Humans should use the human denotations only when speaking about the months, e.g. "Month of the Turning Star" (instead of Córt'ometrá). In Compendium entries about elves (see Wren) this is ok, I'll then add the human denotation in brackets when putting it up.

- We should stick to some general conventions about direct speech and commas (as used in books), e.g.

"Let the little tramp be mother." Said Ruth.
should look like
"Let the little tramp be, mother," said Ruth.

Especially in the last two chapters a lot of commas were missing, e.g. I've corrected several things like "Yes my Lord!" to "Yes, my Lord!" Just take care a bit here, Capher!

- Raping thing: Another thing I would suggest to elaborate in more detail are the consequences of the raping, or to be more precise: Lorilie's thoughts, fears, emotions. I guess that a raping has a deep impact on a young girl's feelings and that this should be stressed much more than you currently do. Especially at the longue dialogue at the beginning of the chapter Lorilie seems to be too matter-of-fact-like. I think the horrible rape scene should always be present somehow in her mind and Lorilie might start crying every now and then when thinking on it etc.

Same thing at the passage about the talking concerning the killing of the baby: I guess there should be a much stronger fight of feelings within Lorilie - guess this is an extreme situation and women might even become psychotic when having to make such a difficult decision. It's a bit too easy in the case of Lorilie, she's just too sure. Most women (I guess) would have absolutely no idea what to do here. Or at least the reader doesn't learn too much about Lorilie's feelings, he only see's the expressions.

- I also propose in general to add some more descriptions of emotions, because this adds more depth. Also, especially at longer dialogues, I guess things like minor actions which are taken during the talking ("looks out of the window, where this and that is happening", "nips on here tea" etc.) can add more flavour to it.

- BTW: I'm not an abortion expert, but how was abortion done in former times? Did people abort and how much?

- One of your characters exlaims "By Sophronia's hand!" - is there a special story behind her hand perhaps?

But in general Chapter 5 is fine and will be up this update. In case you want to add some things here and there we can still update it later on. Just wanted to add some proposals which might be helpful for the story.

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Theodorus Holzman
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« Reply #1 on: 28 October 2001, 09:08:00 »

Well, about the abortion. I believe people drank some extraction of herbs to do the trick. I'm not an expert on this kind of things, but I think this had to kill the baby and cause an early expulsion. These "teas" had to be drunk in the early stades of the pregnancy. The longer the pregnancy before the abortion, the greater the risks of dying, while taking the extraction. At least this is how I believe they did it.

"Destiny, chance, fate, fortune-they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures."

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Capher
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« Reply #2 on: 28 October 2001, 09:48:00 »

Art I'm not sure about the comma things I understand what you did. but would not 'word' have corrected any grammar mistakes. It seems to do so when I really mess up a sentence. If however I am doing it wrong I need to go back to my english books. LOL

Rape- Lorilie is still in some kind of shock. That is why she seems to be so unemotional at times. However when it came to her discussion about aborting the baby. I thought the conversation and the expressive remarks I put in showed forth her emotions.

About Aicila/Xylonia. Yes I did mention Aicila died early but not that early. She did have Xylonia and I guess I did add some people like Ethera that was not in the compendium. Is that not called 'writers license?'This story seems to be taking a life of its own as I write it. Sometimes I even wonder where it is taking me? ;)  

Abortion- I didn't know how they did it back then either, but I was going to do it the way Theo had suggested. I really don't know maybe our medievil expert Bard Judith knows.

About the months- I put the elven name then a dash and the explanation for the human equivalent. It's the same as putting a number and then having that person looking it up at the bottom of the page.

Sophronia's Hand- It was just a remark. The complete phrase was "Good night!(which is better than saying Oh my God) by Sophronia's hand!(What ever it costs) but it alludes to the three fingered hand in the complete Coat of Arms that the Sophronian's have. The description is in the compendium.

I can see that this is putting alot of stress upon you Art and you don't need anymore. So I will have the preceeding chapters, if there are any, edited before I submit them. I am sorry for the trouble and extra work I've caused you. You are a webmaster not an editor for a writer who seems not to know where to put his commas or has his facts correct in his head.

With deepest regards,Capher

Edited by: Capher at: 10/27/01 5:03:53 pm
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #3 on: 28 October 2001, 12:14:00 »

Well, Word can correct misspelled words and can probably correct some missing commas, but only where it is very obvious for the program. As a programmer I can guarantee you that it is nearly impossible to write a program which can correct everything. You still need a human mind for it. So proofreading can't hurt:)

Rape etc. I just wanted to point this out. No need to change everything. Just wanted to mention how I describe emotions usually. You don't need to make it all explicit. E.g. sadness could be expressed by
1.) letting the character say: "I'm sad."
2.) Or you could let the character think about something, e.g. Oh, if he/she/it only... If I could just change things... And the reader will see that the character is sad.
3.) Or you could make it indirect. For example you could describe on how a character stares forelornly at a completely unimportant thing like a... glass in his/her/its hand. If you describe the glass in a certain way you will tell the reader not about the glass, but about his/her/its sadness.

And don't worry about stressing me, Capher. That's my job here: getting stressed. It's my fault starting such a gigantic task of creating Santharia:P With my comments I also try to help you making a good thing even better. Well, re-reading the written text yourself once more wouldn't hurt, but we all make mistakes/typos whatever, so as long as it is more reading than correcting when I go through the story (which I have to do anyway when putting it up), that's not a problem.

Thanx BTW for the contribution. The "White Tower" story indeed seems to progress quite well:)  

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Capher
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« Reply #4 on: 28 October 2001, 12:50:00 »

Art I know you are doing your best to help me. And I do need the help. I do appreciate all of your suggestions. I just need more help in this area of creative writing than I thought. I will do better in the future. I promise. Even if I have to go back to school to learn or should I say maybe unlearn my bad habits.

May the Dream Continue...

With deepest regards,Capher

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Capher
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« Reply #5 on: 29 October 2001, 10:59:00 »

In answer Art to your question about Aiclia and Xylonia. Aiclia did lead the tribe to "Kings Hollow" that is where the Bear Clan lived at the time. Then when she died Xylonia led the tribe to Elverground where actually the Eagle Clan lived at the time.

So according to the compendium entry and my story all the facts as far as that is concerned are correct. Unless I'm missing something.

As far as Lorilie is concerned. You are right in pointing out that she has not shown much emotion concerning the event that happened to her. Partly because she still is in shock, but mostly because I haven't studied up on the ramifications of what a rape victim, especially a young girl, would go through. So I would not have any idea how she would feel, or act therefore I did not write it in. I need to do that for as you said it would add more depth to the story and character.

Art I really do appreciate your suggestions, even if sometimes I don't show it right away. I need time to think things over. I guess that is my "curse" to upbraid those who are trying to help me the most. Please continue to give me those suggestions, even if you have to "shove it down my throat" so to speak;)

The first thing I'm going to do is have my son dig out my english grammar and punctuation book and reread the rules and ways to use them.;)  

With deepest regards,Capher

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« Reply #6 on: 29 October 2001, 21:54:00 »

Capher:  will gladly do the research - there are indeed a number of herbal medications that will, unfortunately, induce abortion.

As any herbalist/doctor/cleric knows, herbs that heal can also harm.  Like any substance that has an effect on the body, doses must be carefully calculated and administered.

Thus: there are a variety of herbal abortefacients which are actually medicinal in smaller doses or when prepared a different way.

I'll look up a few things and then create a few more herbs for Santharia.  Possibly you could just steal one of the existing medicinal herbs for the sake of your story?  Anything that relaxes smooth muscles is, as they say, 'best avoided in pregnancy', so perhaps one of the herbs for women that I've already created would work.  Also anything described as an 'emmenagogue' (think that's the right spelling - it means 'to bring on menses') would be an abortion agent in larger doses.  

I really don't find this a pleasant subject, as I'm pro-life, but I understand the realities of our universe.  Will get back to you soon with the info.

Bard Judith

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Capher
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« Reply #7 on: 30 October 2001, 09:26:00 »

Bard Judith if you read chapter five you will see that Lorilie doesn't believe in aborting her baby either. My self personally I don't believe in abortion as I am also pro-life. If you read the story you will hopefully understand what I was trying to do.

With deepest regards,Capher

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Dala Valannia
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« Reply #8 on: 31 October 2001, 21:38:00 »

Hullo Capher! Just came from reading Chapter 5 and excellent piece of storytelling as usual! Naturally ;)  I really like your descriptions of rooms and barracks and even small things like cupboards, it was all very well done and I could almost visualize Salina walking through the Manor. Wish I could be as detailed and coherent as you in such matters, I get confused when mentally navigating inside Thyrrinths Hold!

Regarding Art's comments, I did feel too that Lorilie was acting very matter-of-factly towards her rape, and my initial sympathy for her lessened because I can't empathize with someone who doesn't seem to care overly. Though like you said, she is in denial so that could account for her lack of emotions at this point. However, on the other hand, if you were to too forcefully bring out that Lorilie is suffering from her ordeal, it might end up sounding faked and pretentious. Like if she were to burst into hysterical screaming and sobbing every minute, which is highly likely in a real life post rape scenario of course but is rather tricky when depicting such emotions on paper.

Also, about the pregnancy, that might be a good trigger to bring out her suppressed feelings over the rape. Maybe in the next chapter, you could have a short scene with Lorilie when she is alone, dealing with her rage and grief over being raped, and having doubts about keeping the baby and that she realised she has no choice but to be strong for her mother and grandparents which would explain why in front of others, she appears to have gotten over her violation so quickly?

Just a suggestion though! Please don't feel offended if I seem to be pushy! Feel free to tell me to butt out. The story so far is progressing great though so no fear :)

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Capher
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« Reply #9 on: 01 November 2001, 02:27:00 »

Dala you seem to be the only one who has gotten it so far. Just as you had suggested I had already written Lorilie feelings, guilt, rage, ect in chapter six. She does that alone in the garden. I suppose I could have written it in earlier but as you have already determined she was still in denial. The talk about aborting the baby shoved her back to reality and that is when those emotions I talked about earlier come to the surface.

Thanks so much for your encouragement and insights. It's a shame your teachers don't see it;)  

With deepest regards,Capher

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #10 on: 01 November 2001, 12:57:00 »

Yeah, good choice, Capher. Seems very appropriate, I guess.

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