Coór the Shadow

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[Isilhir]

 that's ok Talia, those are rather interesting adaptations.. I realize now taht my attempt to be original mayhap was a bit far-fetched

the latter one looks best, even if the darkening of the bright spot  gives an odd contrast to the head

altho i'm a bit confused now.. which picture will be the fina lversion, if there will ever be a final version??  

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"You can't be a Real Country unless you have A BEER and an airline-it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER."
- F. Zappa

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

I'm so frustrated with my nice flat screen, I just don't know, how the pics look really, or how you do see them  
 

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

[Koldar Mondrakken]

The problem is that Macs generally have a brighter colour code than pc screens. On both of my monitors the last version has flattening black spots even if I go to full brightness (where my monitor black becomes a dark grey and is thus far too bright) which fragments the painting for me (the arm looks detached from the rest of the body.

Every single monitor has a different appearance, e.g. my older 21'' leans towards blue where as my newer 19'' seems yellow/green in the grey tones. Well, the later could be because I always see the blue tint in the other screen and might value grey as yellowish due to the contrast. There's sadly no solution to that though flatscreens are all more stable colour-wise than the old monitors(where sharpness and colours degrade with age).


Art, I find the illustration of Avá and worshipping of her pictures an extremely human trait. I'd have thought that the elves would marvel at the beauty in the world (be it a nice sunset or the veins of a leaf), pondering over the Dream itsself and not over some fictional appearance of its dreamer and its thus artificial beauty. A personification would be in my feeling an over-simplification of their belief. Something what more likely humans would do so the masses of the people understand it as well.

With abstract I meant, that Avá and Coór are both deities not based on direct observation (thunder in the sky = Thor, sun = Foiros) or as part of a divine hierachy(both stand above the other gods and are not part of their pantheon) but are both part of a deeper philosophical theory of how the elves believe the different forces in the world work.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 6/17/04 11:47

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Hell, macs are MUCH? brighter? Then Mimi must have quite a dark skin for you,what was not intended!
I'm just looking at all pics with Johannas comp(=mac with normal screen). The second is much too dark then, but I don't see the flattening black spots on the first. (Why are you going to full brightness, when I want to have it darker?)
Well, I see no solution here, the only windows pc I have acces to sometimes is a notebook with flatscreen *sigh*

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

[Koldar Mondrakken]

I meant the second. Wanted to check if there is a variation of shades I cannot see with my screen settings as the black was too dominant to me swallowing all the details.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Isilhir]

hmm after further consideration I actually think I like the first one of Talia's versions best.. so I vote for that one!

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"You can't be a Real Country unless you have A BEER and an airline-it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a BEER."
- F. Zappa

[Artimidor Federkiel]

I agree with Isilhir as well, the first one is darker than the original version and thus comes closer to the Coór the Shadow idea. It also still has the colour very dominant, though, making it more red and bloodier. While the second version of Talia can be too dark at monitors which aren't properly adjusted (clearly visible at my company's computer) - though it still looks pretty much ok on my computer monitor at home, which is calibrated with the Adobe Calibration tool. I suggest to perhaps try to calibrate the monitor with Adobe Gamma if you have Photoshop installed (you can find it in the Windows Control Panel called "Adobe Gamma") - or to perhaps download such a tool from somewhere - this is very helpful

@Koldar and the depiction of elven Gods: Your argumentation comes definitely from a human point of view, where ideas and appearance are two seperate things. The appearance only represents the idea, and you need to get away from appearance to see the idea - that's common Platonism and the way European philosophy works since more than 2000 years. I don't intend to make elves humans, though. For the elves in general appearance and idea are one, ethics and aesthetics are pretty much the same (while humans need prescriptive rules to define morality), living for the elves is also identical with belief, and so is the process of creating and producing - and this also refers to the Gods, especially Avá.  Elves are pretty much artists in my point of view - concerning artwork and life. Though it is evident that elves would never fall back into a stereotypical depiction of Avá - every picture is different, and meant to be so, quite unlike the human depictions of e.g. God Father here on earth.

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[Koldar Mondrakken]

You mean they draw a nice lady because they think Avá is a nice lady? Avá is ethical "good" so she is aesthetical beautiful? What I meant was that the elves would be more concerned about the world as Avá's Dream than Avá herself because the Dream is the only part of Avá they can perceive.

Drawing a fictional charakter is human superstitution (just like the stereotypic godfather you mentioned), it sounds as if they need a personified goddess because they otherwise couldn't believe in her. My impression of elves was more that they are that aware of themselves and the world that they don't need symbols to believe what they do is the right path and that they only play a part in a Dream.

I see it fitting, too, that they are very aesthethic in what they do.

Plato aside I find it very human to personify the one god you believe in, instead of simply believing in certain ways that are viable. I also find it normal that a god or anything else appears in a human's mind the way they judge him morally. A bad guy is ugly, a good guy beautiful...

But maybe I don't quite understand why elves would need a drawn  image of Avá in the first place.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 6/17/04 23:40

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Elves produce artwork as a process of re-creating the beauty they experience in the world. A drawing of Avá is a re-creation of the highest beauty possible an elf can think of - it's more the experience of doing the artwork instead of having the result of it and worship it. And so do the elves see their lives: as artwork and beautiful representation of Avá.

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 6/17/04 23:48

[Eshoh Kryvvlen]

I do like Talia's version, there is still the bright spot(though dimmer, which is nice), which leads me to think of Coór as drowning out the light... he was born from the dreams of Avá, and so he tries to poison them. Darkness does not need lots of black to give it the correct atmosphere, I think, the subtler blues and reds of the darkest spots look pleasing, so it looks great!

treading the shoreline, i heard your name...

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Ok, I see that so as well, but as such this is their way in all they do. When it comes down to draw Avá I however still find it an extreme simplification done by an elf to draw Avá as a person, isn't the beauty of Avá part of anything anyway and thus a more universal force? I always saw her more as a female Illuvater than like one of the Valar.

I would think a "drawing of Avá" wouldn't be about simply drawing her as a person but more like drawing a Mandalla, if it is to be drawn/carved onto a doorstep, a pillar or a painting is secondary but the art/design done is meant to touch some higher plane. Doing art in general being equal to drawing Avá for the elves.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Roguehammer]

I like the second one of Talia's best. It seems more evil,, showing that there is something there, but making it hard to tell, just what it is, and just what you're up against makes it more apprehensive. So I like that one better.

"There was no Peace, no Security, nay, there was only Hatred and Misery and Pain. Before Roguehammer."

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