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Author Topic: some questions regarding a possible quest-line  (Read 3259 times)
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Smith in Exile
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« on: 25 August 2003, 10:32:00 »

Some time ago we discussed the possibilities of some quest-lines related to goblins and some Nybelmar evil-doers. Well, I am almost done with my work on Murmillions so I think I could try to start something here as well. But before organizing my thoughts I would need to know a few things:

1. I've read the gob-oc description and I found out that their actual territory is more up north than Nepris, but if you suggested them then that means they have foun a way to tunnel. But also from that description I understood that such a presence of goblins so much south would definetely be a reason for worries (as they could probably announce some kind of future attack). So if someone can enlighten me on this issue...

2. The quest-line that I had in mind doesn't necessarily has to be related to the main quest (meaning that the player doesn't really needs to complete these quests to finish the game), but this is your decision anyway (as surely we can "relate" these quests to the main one if it is the case). Basically these quests will uncover a plot in progress. a plot that ultimately targets the political situation of the Santharian Kingdom. (I am not decided yet but we'll have to agree on this anyway). To make it more interesting we can give the player a choice (that he could be or not aware of). so by his/hers course of actions he/she can either help the Nybelmarian guys in succeeding or prevent/delay them.

3. The story would be that an Arkhaeon expedition is sent in Sarvonia to inspect their outer branch/es from there and also to prepare the way for their leader's coming. Now in this little village of Nepris an opportunity was seen by two of these expedition members (a master an his apprentice) to start a course of events that will ease the way for their leader to become the Earl of this province and such to "threaten" the kingdom with even further plots. (quite simple but it can create tensions while avoiding the "destroy the world" cliche - I don't know about you but I have the feeling that the players might be a little tired of saving the world so many times :) )

3. I suppose you won't have anything against "weaving" these quests with already developped characters?

4. If goblins are to be there, then I am thinking that the player should receive a "quest" of fighting them from some other NPC non-related with this story?

5. Finally some technical stuff:
- I suppose a monster/NPC can become hostile an attack the player if a certain action occurs
- Can an NPC join the player for a limited amount of time?


Ok, just tell me what do you think for now (an especially tell me about the goblins because your answer woul tell me how I can use them - if I can use them)

PS: uhm... I couldn't find this in the entry, what would be the colour of goblins blood?

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Humangus
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« Reply #1 on: 26 August 2003, 02:12:00 »

I can only answer the technical questions but the quest sounds interesting although you must provide many more details.

- Yes. Either an NPC can become hostile or even a monster will not attack until a certain (hostile) action of the player occurs.

- An NPC can join the player but it will not be possible to remove him from inside a script. So the limited amount of time is not possible.

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #2 on: 26 August 2003, 14:12:00 »

Ok, here some answers to your questions, Smith:

Gob-Ocs
Well, so far this is just a basic idea to use some Gob-Ocs here, so details would need to be elaborated why they are there etc. We can also use other creatures/monsters, depending on what dark plans we're going to set up... So nothing is decided here yet, but we should decide soon upon something more concrete here. I personally think in the meantime that maybe the mullogs would fit much better in here (Gollum-like creatures):

"A rare crossbreed between halflings and orcs who have been living in the Silvermarshes for centuries, Mullogs are only known to a few men. Being a race of former refugees and outcasts, the Mullogs also prefered to keep it that way and have avoided all contact with the rest of the world."

Also their territory is much closer to Nepris and they are not so well known, though, as they are very withdrawn beings usually.

Main Storyline
Your ideas about the guild sound fine with me, maybe we can combine it with some ideas I've uttered somewhere: Mithril doesn't exist in Santharia anymore, the old mines in the Mithral Mountains are now considered a myth. I thought that maybe the guild discovered somehow through their investigations that there's a secret burried somehow in the depths of the Mithral mountains and that there is a secret vein of mirthril down there (and mithril=important for magical weapons/armour=power in general). So - as they find this vein indeed - that's why they set the Mithral as their starting point to take over parts of Santharia secretly by making their HQ down there for example. They need workers of course, which would be the mullogs, which they enslave for example for their needs. The plot itself doesn't need to be a violent act, the guild can try to gain a lot of influence with its mithril wealth. - That's a rough idea only yet, but I think this could lead us somewhere.

Another additional thing is to include a destiny of why the old mine was left, some sort of Moria story. I'd like to have the player stumble accidentally (by finding the missing girl) over an entrance to this mine, then he will see a lot of the ancient dwarven culture of the Mitharim (a Mitharim cleric will accompany him), and bit by bit he will then uncover the guild plot etc. At least that's a v ery basic idea of how this could work I think. Needs more thought, though.

In general I think however that allowing the player to focus on the dark side in our first attempt to make a major game will be too much as different main paths mean double work. So I think we'll have to live with a regular hero.

Goblins blood: Don't know either - green?


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« Reply #3 on: 26 August 2003, 17:58:00 »

yes, the Mithrill plot sounds good. I will elaborate in this direction then. And of course, as I didn't actually wrote anything yet, everything can be tweaked, changed etc... The gob-ocs would have been good for some "action" for the player (but I guess we can provide that in the dungeons by other means also, if not the mullogs than perhaps we can find some tougher opponents in Drakkars - Murmillion elite soldiers, overseeing/guarding the guild operation here)

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #4 on: 27 August 2003, 18:32:00 »

I looked through the site a little searching elements for this developing direction.

First, about Mithril. I understand this is a "fantasy" material often encountered in fantasy stories. Now I've always seen it in games as having a bluish colour but I suppose that in Santharia this material would be related to silver (it is also called "true silver") - meaning a magical enhanced version of silver. This would make sense actually because Murmillions do appreciate silver very much and in fact they are even valuing it more than gold, so the discovery of a new mithril vein in Sarvonia would pretty much be enough of a reason for the Guild to risk such an operation on foreign lands. (Nevertheless the secrecy would be "absolute" as they are after all the "Free Murmillions" - the ones from Ehebion - that kept a very low profile in the last two millenia; however, the Nepris "girl incident" would be that inevitable "accident of fate" that would uncover their presence there - quite a nasty thing for them :) )

Second, about Mullogs. Well, the entry states that they are only about 1000, all living in the Silvermarshes, which are again quite north of Nepris. But it's ok this time. In their Sarvonian researches, the guilders may have found out about these Mullogs and then they must have noticed the similarities of their beliefs that, combined with the shy and defensive character of Mullogs, would make them quite an "easy prey" for these men (with an active history of thousands of years behind). Mullogs' gods are quite abstract (as Mari and the Unspoken are for Murmillions) and beside that, their main divinity is called "Spirit" (same as the guilders'). So the "story" here would be that some Mullogs were persuaded by the guilders into some kind of pseudo-religion: the enslaving was not so violent as it was based on persuasion.

The caves. Well, these are supposed to be originally dwarven caves, but again reading through the entries I found out that usually dwarves have quite some "tight" tunnels for the size of a human. For Mullogs they are no problem, but they would be for the guilders (as they are humans). So even if the tunnels would be originally dwarven they should be now modified (enlarged) - which would be a good reason to "horrify" the dwarf cleric (though I don't see how he could comment on things while he is in the player's party :S)

The incident that caused the desertion of these caves. Uhm... [blushes] I don't know what happened in Moria, I only saw the movie and I don't remember what was the reason for which the dwarves left, leaving the mines for goblins and trolls. So, Arti, if you have something specific in mind, please tell me. I'm deducing that this incident happened around 900 a.S. because this is the time when the mithril material is supposed to be exhausted. If the guilders had nothing to do with this incident then they must have moved in quite recently (let's say 100 years?)...

Another question now. The ancient Avennorians were deciding their King by means of wealth: the one that proved to be the wealthiest was worthy to be the King. Now the situation changed of course, but I still don't know how the Earl of this province is elected. Is he decided by the same wealth criteria? Or, because Manthria has now other races as well, this situation is no longer viable. If the Avennorian method is still working than this could help the plot a lot: by operating a mithrill mine here, the guilders (Murmillions are excellent smiths also, in Nybelmar their products are competing the dwarven ones - both in quality and in rarity) might try to produce "fakes", artifacts that may look old and thus being able to be sold at a higher price. This means that the operation must be kept secret. Also this means that in a relative short period of time they can accumulate enough wealth to try a take-over in Manthria.

Regarding the plot. This mithril operation could be the work of a Sarvonian branch only, so there is no need to bring guys directly from Nybelmar. But the things can go more interesting if the two Nybelmarian guys that I was talking about in the first proposal, would come to inspect the Sarvonian branches and stumble over this operation (about which the Arkhaeon leader didn't knew a thing). Keeping their presence as well secret, they spy on their former brothers. So the player gets the chance to meet them and work with them in shutting down the operation. The problem (and also a nice "coup de grace") would be that by helping the Nybelmarian guys against the Sarvonian guild branch, the player actually helps in "preparing" the path for the Arkhaeon leader to come in Sarvonia and take active control of the guild's branches here (which in the long term may be or may be not a more dangerous thing that the "renegades" operating the mithrill mine). This would be quite like that little hand that still moves at the end of a thriller movie :) . And I also think that it would help in revealing to the player a quite complex political situation that is not covered in the actual game (and thus it can give her/him that feeling of "reality" - it helps in immersion, the classical rule in simulating)

One last thing. I can't figure out yet how many rooms would be needed for this but perhaps you, Arti, know best. The monsters I guess, besides the inevitable cave rats and such, would be quite some mullogs and a few drakkars (as tougher opponents), probably some guilders too (as some kind of spellcasters). Now relating to the quests I have another questions: How have you thought the developement of this area? Does the player gets the chance to return to the village or once he/she enters these dungeons the village area becomes "forbidden"? And the game ends when the player founds the girl, or when he brings her back to the village in one way or another?




Well, that's about it for now, I can't give you more details about the quests because I don't have enough clear data in my head; and although I have an image about what I would do, some things need to be clarified and agreed upon first. Also, I suppose that, after we agree on the background and story, I should start working on the quests first, developing the NPC's "on the fly"?

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #5 on: 28 August 2003, 12:12:00 »

Quote from the Metals of Caelereth entry concerning Mithril:

Mithril (Silversteel, True Silver)
Extremely rare kind of metal, silver in color, a metal that does not tarnish. Mithril can be beaten and polished without being weakened, and it is both light and hard. It is treasured greatly by the Thergerim as well as the elves and made into powerful armour. Kor Mithrid once was the greatest provider of Mithrid, but nowadays there exists no mithril-vein anymore on the whole world of Caelereth worth mentioning. Mithril items therefore are priceless and very difficult to come by.


Yup, I also think your ideas concerning "convincing the mullogs" with some sort of deity also sounds like a good idea to win them for their purposes:)

And why can't you see a cleric not commenting while he's in the player's party. That isn't much of a problem, as we'll design the game that way that the player will be forced to accept the cleric in his party to enter the dwarven cave, and we can have several scripted events using the dwarven cleric:)

In general I can only suggest that you install the current version of the game on your computer (if you don't have XP and face a problem when starting the game, just turn off the sound in the menu until this issue is fixed). It gives you already a good idea on how vast the game is concepted and how it all works. Also for example playing the quests we already have in the game and seeing later the quest definitions and branches the player can take will help you a lot concerning defining own quests etc. Various things are a bit problematic still and the interface will probably change in the course of time quite a lot, but this version is something you definitely need to install, as it has everything realized which you need to help with developing already. Printing the current map also won't hurt;)

About the Avennorian wealth: Well, I thought that the Manthrian way of dealing with wealth is still pretty close to politics we know of today - preaching values like freedom, understanding of races etc. while in the background it is still much more important how influential and potent you are concerning wealth. I guess the Count (the heads of the provinces are called "Counts") will be elected by certain influential people, a senate of some sorts, however, money plays an important role in gaining these votes. So unofficially it's still the old way.

The twist in the story also sounds very interesting. This way the player gets really into the thing instead of just heading towards the evil guys, and finishing them for the sake of the kingdom:)  A bit of treason which changes the player's reality here and there is always a funny addition;)

I think that we first should try to work on completing the whole "surface", before the player actually enters the "hot" part down in the moutain.  But we should already prepare lots of references to the main story, which can help the player to learn more about what's going on. Once we accomplish to finish the surface part, we can think about the second part (if we do it as an own game with the importet party), or if we add it to the main game. So we basically need to have the main storyline done, see that the girl is found (after several single mandatory quests and a bunch of subquests) and that the big guild story is fully prepared, then we'll see further. I personally think we can just add it all in one game, that's better, and that the player can always return to the village if needed. But we'll see how far we get.

So take a look at the game first, Smith, so that you get a feeling, and maybe try to get into the whole thing by preparing a regular house and/or NPC dialogue for now to get a bit experience in developing here, and we'll then work bit by bit on connecting the pieces for the main storyline and how the girl-search quest will lead the player to it, where we'll give the pointers to this conspiracy and where the NPCs will be placed which will accompany the player.


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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Smith in Exile
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« Reply #6 on: 29 August 2003, 17:06:00 »

okeydokey :)  

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