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Smith in Exile
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« on: 25 September 2003, 16:15:00 »

Here is what I thought about a "surface" quest for the guild story. I need some feedback though from you because I don't want to interfere too much with the other plans for the surface, but this is quite obvious I guess :)  

Ok, I thought about introducing one of those two Nybelmarian guys (let's call them the "original guilders") that the player is suppose to meet and work with to shut down the secret mining operation. The two guys should be a master and his apprentice, so here on the surface the player should meet with the apprentice.
This guy must be saved somehow by the player, and there are two ways to do this in the game (just tell me which do you like most):

- we can place the apprentice somewhere in Hieronymus area, attacked by a wild beast, the player fights the beast and saves the "poor" guy.

- or, if this choice might seem a little stereotype, then we can do this: the player finds the guy on the other side of the Baveras shrine, afraid to try that tricky water crossing (I managed to kill my character once there :S) and pretty furious that someone had left him without the rowboat there (probably because he was fishing :D  , thus a funny situation might occur, as that fishing net used for the Pinn's quest could be actually his...)

The player gets the chance to talk with the guy and the dialogue will introduce the existance of an ad-hoc laboratory set up by this "master" in the dungeons, also more info about the mysterious dark figures, and perhaps some (very few) info about Nybelmar. During the dialogue the player will be presented with the option of asking to meet the "master" and thus the quest will be triggered. The apprentice tells the player that he cannot just meet the master but he must have a reason, an excuse to meet him - so the journal entry will state something like "I must find an excuse to meet with this guild master". About the excuse itself the player must figure out for itself. After the talk the apprentice will go to the tavern "for a drink" (as he appeared to be pretty "shaken" by his nasty experience :)  ) and stay there until the quest is solved.

Now here I thought about something tricky again. And we have three choices:

- The player brings him some fish (because he figures out that the master have sent the apprentice to fish...) either by catching them himself (using the fishing net) or by buying them. [this is easy]

- The player finds out from the "herb" woman that she has some Nybelmarian flowers (just like those from the "Two brothers" story), the woman gives him another quest (to kill a beast roaming around some very important herbs - perhaps that bear I heard you once talking about?) and as a prize she hands him these flowers. The strange flowers could be a good excuse :)  

- We can also set up an "ambush" (after this quest is triggered) so that in one of the forest rooms he meets with a couple of those strange dark figures (the sarvonian guilders, in my view) he fights them and defeat them, finding some parchments with strange letters on them (Murmillion glyphs actually). [the fight shouldn't be too hard though] These parchments must be taken for identification to the Hostel "vip" (the historian), and after that they can also be a nice excuse :)  

What would be tricky here? Well, if Humangus tell us he can do this (I've seen such a thing in a couple of games but I really have no idea if this engine allows it), we could work all three of them and then add a random factor: so that each time the player starts a new game, one of these three solvings is loaded... uhm... makes sense? :S

The reward for this quest will be the access to the guild master in the dungeons of course. The apprentice will leave the tavern and then meet with the player in the dungeons again (something like "You have to find the entrance by yourself though, my master would kill me if he would find out that I've told you where he is. I will be there though and I can grant you safe passage, so don't worry.")



I have already thought about the dialogues and details (for each of the variants above) but first I need to know how do we structure this and with which one do you agree (if you agree with one, that is :)  )

Edited by: Smith in Exile at: 9/25/03 0:19
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« Reply #1 on: 26 September 2003, 15:51:00 »

Thanks for posting, Smith... Will be in update stress during the weekend, but I'll think about the ideas and will post as soon as I can;)  


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« Reply #2 on: 26 September 2003, 15:55:00 »

ok, np ;)  

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« Reply #3 on: 30 September 2003, 13:56:00 »

Ok, I see we're now getting slowly into the main storyline, and what we definitely need to do is to connect things here to get the stations of the main storyline clearly defined. Having all the details for now isn't that important, but it needs to be clear what event triggers the next, and what kind of things the player needs to do to progress and make further steps closer towards the final goal of discovering the secrets waiting for him inside the mountain.

Therefore we need to mainly see your posted ideas in the whole context.

So I'll sum up all side-quests we currently have/are already definitely planned:

- Pinn wants his lost ball back
- Pinn wants his ship back
- Cellar clearing at the Prosperous Farmhouse
- The player can feed and follow a kuatu (squittel): gets box
- Mimi wants sweets 3 times, reveals a cave secret
- Wizard wants wizardleaf
- Wizard's apprentice needs to be saved from his own creations (slime-monsters)
- Gordoth has some necromantic machinations going on

The last two are not yet started, but will fit in very well (e.g. we have a skeleton pic, and a zombie pic for the Gordoth quest), and we'll need a wizard to join the party, which will be the saved one.

Ok, these are all independent things, and there will be some more of course. But I plan to have these things completed (so that we already have a little game, which can be played and completed without the main quest).

We need to get in weapons and basic armour as well very soon, so I guess we'll let Andulf sell some swords, axes etc., as we need to have a weapons/armour reference point down there south.

Then we should move on to prepare the exact story-line for the main quest.

Then your ideas come in, Smith. It is important that the ideas you describe derive logically from the main storyline - solving this quest should lead to important information to make the main story progress (as it deals with the guild thingy and you can't really seperate this from the main storyline). So I guess we'll have to connect it logically somehow to the main storyline - so that the player learns something about the disappeared girl and as well already gets hints about some dark machinations. With "connecting" I mean that for example someone could send the player to the Baveras shrine (maybe the girl was seen there for the last time) and then the story unfolds further as the guy appears only at a certain state of the main storyline (when the player got the hint to search there). And so on...

I think at this point your water crossing idea would be the best (as we have a "saving" mission as well with the wizard's apprentice). Could be that the player will try to find out if the disappearance of the girl has something to do with the master for example. So maybe you can think about this a bit, and start on such a possible encounter-dialogue.

As you mentioned the ambush thing, I thought about something. Maybe the whole thing is planned as a nice trap right from the start. The dark guys could have noticed that you're searching around in this area for the girl, which is not to their liking. So the guy at the Baveras shrine (who you meet accidentally, he didn't want you to see him) points you to a location, where you'll get ambushed (he could actually tell you quite a lot of nonsense to lead you away from their track). And then, after defeating the attackers, you read some parchments, strange notes etc. (with the help of the vip), discover a first entrance (though you miss a key or something to progress further). After that incident another fighter may join your party, as there now is a reason to have more help. This sounds like the most interesting way how things might work.

This should all be feasible from the programming side as well. What do you think?


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« Reply #4 on: 30 September 2003, 15:29:00 »

yes, this sounds nice :thumbup  ok, I'll start thinking about how and what to do and I'll be back (soon, this week nevertheless lol) with a new plan.

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« Reply #5 on: 02 October 2003, 17:28:00 »

Here's the new plan that I thought of, for the guild story on the surface.

First, I guess I should tell you how things really are (not what the players knows it's happening).
There is this secret mining operation going on inside the mountain, run by a sarvonian branch of the guild. Two Nybelmarian guilders (assisted by several soldiers), sent by the Inner Circle of the guild, came to inspect the activities of this branch and they didn't liked what they saw. Therefore they decided to take over the operation or if that doesn't work, to shut it down. But they don't know yet how to act so they play the "nice guys" hanging along with the sarvonian guilders. Now the sarvonian guilders, also knowing with whom they are dealing with, really don't trust these two inspectors at all. At some point they notice a lot of agitation around the dungeon entrance (because of the girl) so they decide to send someone out to see what's going on. So they send one of the two inspectors, meaning the apprentice. In the same time they also send an ambush party to take this opportunity to get rid of one of the "undesirables". The problem is that the apprentice finds out about this so he decides to hide behind the Baveras shrine until he finds a way out of this situation. That's when the player meets him.

Now for the player.
The player starts looking for the girl and someone points him to the Baveras shrine as the last place where the girl was seen (it's really up to you who does that, Mimi could be a good idea - but I don't know the Mimi dialogue yet). After this, behind the shrine, the apprentice will appear. The player meets him and he hears a bunch of nonsense about how this guy was fishing there when someone came and stole the rowboat and presumably his fishing net also etc, etc... Then the player asks about the girl and the guy tells him that he actually saw the girl (obviously a lie, but the player doesn't know that yet) and points him towards the place where the ambush party is searching. Also the apprentice gives the player a nice (but useless) artifact as a token of gratitude for his "rescue". This item could be a Murmillion specific weapon (one of those "scythars" that Koldar described) but the player doesn't know how to use it - that's why it's useless... With this artifact on the player the apprentice actually hopes that the ambush party will think that he has something to do with the inspection party and thus a fight will take place.

This would be a first quest that will trigger another one: by defeating the ambushers a new journal entry appears - to search for the apprentice to have a few "words" with him.
The apprentice could be found either in the same place or in one of the rooms near the dungeon entrance (however do you think is best). Anyway, the player finds him and starts a furious talk with him. The apprentice, seemingly scared, will swear to "reveal" the truth and so more nonsense pours in the "ears" of the player (how those ambushers were actually rogues from the Crazy Woman Pass, that were after him and his master and that he couldn't hope to get help from anyone except by such shamefull methods etc., etc.). More, to prove his trustworthyness, the apprentice offers to help the player to find the girl (obviously again, he has absolutely no intention to do that, but the player doesn't know it yet).
So a new quest is triggered. The apprentice tells the player that the only place where he didn't looked so far are the dungeons. And, how fortunate, he happens to just know where the last or the only key to the dungeons is: a dwarven stone key that will be in the possesion of that dwarven cleric that is supposed to join the player's party.
Here, again I need a little help from you, because the dwarven cleric was your idea so I don't know what are your plans about him (how the player meets him and how does he joins the party, but I guess this stone key would be a good reason)


The apprentice will appear (with even more nonsense if you like :hammer ) to the surprise of the player, later in the dungeons. And things will get complicated there as we will actually start to reveal the plot. A nice clue about who these guys really are could be the parchments that the player found on the ambushers (else I don't know what use we can give to them yet - perhaps a misleading clue about how the dungeon door opens, so the players will try all sorts of stuff with them before the door?) Ok, so the plan is not done yet because we need to decide about this last part with the key, but what do you say about the rest? That is before telling me what are your thoughts about the dungeon entrance...

We also need a name for this apprentice (to start working on the dialogues), so what do you say about "Daelonn" (ok, ok, inspiration came from "Alain Delon"  :smile  when working on the Theodunn entry lol, but I guess it sounds kinda cool... or not?)? Also for the master I think "Dasmonn" could be neat also... (lol, like Lolec & Bolec :lol )

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« Reply #6 on: 03 October 2003, 13:48:00 »

I think this rough concept may work indeed, Smith:)  Of course it needs refinement and precision here and there at the later parts especially, but for now I think you can take the names and start already with a first dialogue... I don't know how the guys could look, but we have 2 pictures of Quellion for some cloaked figures... Maybe they'd fit here? See here:



I will try to start with putting the main storyline with the defined "milestones" into an own thread soo, so that we know the exact stations the player has to pass when trying to completed the game. There may be gaps here and there, which we'll have to fill bit by bit. but I'll try to give the main quests some more detailed thought and add those details along with the quests. We can discuss this then, and form the game according to the work-in-progress storyline:)

As for the dialogue: It's up to you how you do the dialogue - you can either use the the Santharia GDT program and export the thing, or simply write it down in Word, and I'll put it in. You should take a look at the Santharia GDT instructions though, as there the principles of dialogue making are explained a bit  (a dialogue psasage triggers one or more keywords etc.). If you have problems, just ask! Just start with Mr. Daelonn and we'll see where the problems lie...:D  


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« Reply #7 on: 03 October 2003, 15:46:00 »

ok ;)

for the picture: there is no picture for Murmillion or Arkhaeon until now so I guess anything that brings the flavour fits... :)  These two look enough like "troubled" characters :D

I'll try to download the GDT again or at least the documentation and I will start working.

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« Reply #8 on: 06 October 2003, 00:56:00 »

Ok, the Daeloon character dialogue has arrive at the Santharian HQ by now, I will check it soon and see if everything's fine with it or if there are some problems which need to be taken care of:)  


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« Reply #9 on: 06 October 2003, 03:50:00 »

Sounds interesting!
The player meets the dwarven cleric - if he is smart enough to take the hint - when he found the first box on the sand bank with the dwarven runes on it. He will go and ask for the/a dwarven cleric. If he doesn't know, that one exists, he could just ask any person who knows about him (don't we have such a hint already?)
The key could indeed be in the second cave behind the waterfall, along with other items needed to survive the quest in the dungeons near the tomb.

One problem: There is no "behind " of the Baveras shrine, where the apprentice could hide. Maybe he would better appear from behind the big bolders in one of the rooms north of the main path through the baychtree allee. Let him sample this moss which you can use as lightning help for caves, would be a hint that there are things going on underground.

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« Reply #10 on: 06 October 2003, 21:13:00 »

behind, meaning on the other side :S, where you must take the rowboat to get there (Bay of Toran’s Creek)

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« Reply #11 on: 07 October 2003, 14:26:00 »

Very nice from what I see so far, Smith... I've started preparing it already, and of course needs some time to iron things out (e.g. the guy never mentions his name, this should always happen if the player tells his). I need some more time, though, but I'm sure it fits in nicely:D  I'll post a dialogue excerpt here once I'm done.

Of course this will be a dialogue of Chapter 2 of the game (see the concept I've started), so we first need to get that far, but I guess to test the dialogue once it is done, the guy will simply be placed there for now and moved back in the game later...

Very nice job, Smith! I'll get back to you as soon as I'm done with preparing... :)

P.S. Maybe you'd like to work on your membership details for the team page in the meantime...


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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
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« Reply #12 on: 07 October 2003, 16:03:00 »

yes he does tell you his name (first time he speaks) "[...] I am Daelonn and you are... my saviour! [...]"

membership details? I'll have to take a look see what I should write.

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« Reply #13 on: 08 October 2003, 00:19:00 »

Must have overlooked it, sorry...  *brain smokes*


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« Reply #14 on: 08 October 2003, 07:17:00 »

lol, actually I took another look at the text and I found one mistake 8o  :hammer  
before the player is presented with the option to take the item I indicated "exit dialogue". :explode  


more "brain smoke" comes out from the fact that membership details are ok but I need to write a story about me, right? like an additional entry. This is a bit harder than writing about fictional characters lol.

(can't provide you with any pictures though, sorry, I don't have anything scanned)

Edited by: Smith in Exile at: 10/7/03 15:44
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