Some general proposals

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[Artimidor Federkiel]

Here some accumulated general proposals of things I missed so far and what would be nice to have. Of course they are no "must haves" at the moment, cause game development itself is much more important at the moment than turning things upside down (which might be necessary in the long run), but I'd at least start to think on what could be important in the long run. Ok, here are some things I'd like to point out:

- Action texts, texts accompanying a player action. E.g. texts like "You pick up the rope." or if you LOOK, "You look around.", followed by the room description (these texts in another color).

I guess every textbased games has them, and it makes things much more transparent (e.g. if you re-read the text) and also helps for orientation when the text suddenly scrolls up when you do something and you don't know where you need to start reading.

- A wonderful design issue of course would be if the text could scroll much slower so that you actually can follow which lines are added

- I would at least start thinking about slowly getting rid of the message boxes/list boxes as they'll get in our way sooner or later when we're making it all more graphical and everything should look more "whole". For now the list boxes/message boxes are efficient from the programmers point of view, but the playing flow suffers.

For example: If you want to Pick Up something you could as well try to realize this with options in the text area (like at a dialogue), but especially at the inventory screen I'd say it would be worth some thought if there could be a pemanent area reserved for text for example.

- Shortcuts: Especially as we still have a bit of a design problem at the moment (no graphical interface, too much clicking around therefore), it would be nice if the most important things could be done through the keyboard alone. E.g. if you see a "Continue" then hit RETURN will have the effect of a click, or the "X" or "E" key could be the shortcut for examining and so on, "L" look etc. This would also make testing much faster and more efficient, I'd say.

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

[Humangus]

Quote:I would at least start thinking about slowly getting rid of the message boxes/list boxes as they'll get in our way sooner or later when we're making it all more graphical and everything should look more "whole". For now the list boxes/message boxes are efficient from the programmers point of view, but the playing flow suffers.

Most issues you mention will be considered and many of them implemented.

I don't completely understand though how the listboxes affect the playing flow and how do you imagine the graphical version to be any different than a graphical list of items or anything else that still need to be presented in a dialogue box.

And what do you mean by saying a permanent text area in the inventory?

Quote:The great successful men of the world have used their imaginations. They think ahead and create their mental picture, and they go to work materializing that picture in all its details, filling in here, adding a little there, altering this bit and that bit, but steadily building, steadily building.

-Robert Collier

www.legendarytales.com

[Artimidor Federkiel]

I guess someone mentioned this at your forum as well. E.g. that the inventory is quite "message-box" intense, but also the listboxes aren't really necessary if you have one or two items to pick up/examine etc. and need to open a new window for it, select something, then click ok etc. As a programmer and someone who has a lot to do with design issues as well, you should always try to keep the interface all in one screen as good as possible unless it is impossible to avoid. Ever seen special window-like selections appear on the main screen of Baldur's Gate which aren't integrated directly into the interface (opening boxes, quick items, casting magic spells etc.)? They do not hide the action, but only replace certain interface parts whenever necessary.

BG also has a textarea in the inventory BTW - if you mouseover items you see things displayed there, and only upon a closer look you get the full item window.

If we switch to a complete graphical interface (e.g. for the first screen, the main game interface), then everything needs you can do at this screen needs to fit to this interface as well, so the more you can realize without additional windows etc. the easier the interface will be to make and the easier it wil be for the player to have full control over the situation.

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

[Humangus]

1 ) BG is a GRAPHICAL game in every sense of the word so any comparison could be misleading. The bottom panel in BG certainly expands when you 're in dialogue hiding half the screen. Besides, everything in BG uses icons because its a graphical game. And icons do not take up much space anyway. Here we must provide a selection with each item's name.

2 ) Please do not bring examples of this or that game. We do not try to duplicate any game here are we?. Because I can tell you about Morrowind which is actually FULL of pop up windows for the inventory, the dialogues and everything else or Pool of radiance which also uses pop up windows for the inventory and even multi-level menus for the spells. The company says this the game, this is the interface, use it. And when you cast a spell you select the target in the action screen because it is graphical. There is no comparison. How each game has solved its problems does not mean will work for other games especially when we talk about a radically different type of game.

3 ) The text-area in BG is very rarely used for special purposes e.g when you cannot equip an item or when it is cursed. It has no other use. Besides when you mouse over some item in LT you can see it's full name in the status bar. It could also be used for a short description.

4 ) As I have said, switching to a complete graphical interface will not be much good if we do not also provide graphics for spells, items and all.

5 )  What is mentioned in my forum refers to the Character Creation sequence which shows a dialogue box (it didn't previously) when you cannot raise an ability any more. In this case this is irritating because clicking the up or down buttons multiple times (12 points to distribute) can lead to many dialogue windows. Perhaps you play the game too fast because you know it and this results in many pop ups. The actual gamer though will be moving more slowly and carefully so there won't be so many pop ups to become irritating.

Quote:The great successful men of the world have used their imaginations. They think ahead and create their mental picture, and they go to work materializing that picture in all its details, filling in here, adding a little there, altering this bit and that bit, but steadily building, steadily building.

-Robert Collier

www.legendarytales.com

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Turn-based, yes, lol

***Astropic of the day***

[Artimidor Federkiel]

BG: The bottom panel of course expands, but the action is never covered (which in our case would be the text area). BG is a perfect example on how an interface puts the player in the center of the action.

The LT interface is functional, no doubt, and we don't need much more at the moment. But I would suggest to ask players and hear what they say concerning the current interface.

Just an example: The picture area to the right could display a chest icon when someone looks into a container, the options could be realized in the regular textfield where the dialogue options are displayed, and the text area is still always visible and displays what you do at the moment with the container. Instead of displaying message boxes over the listbox if the player does something wrong, you could display a red text in the text area for example.

As I've said: It's your engine, but just ask some players if they see possible improvements in the interface area, cause I'm sure not everybody is happy with the current design. But I thought you were aware of this. However, this has not priority at all at the moment.

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

[Humangus]

Ha ha ha ... Ask the players? Well, there aren't any yet.

Anyway, I see your point. Perhaps, the complete bottom section with the buttons and the options panel could be replaced with a container appropriate interface just like in BG.
I even got a nice container image to use.

But this will require much work and I 'm not ready at least for now. But it can be done later.

Quote:The great successful men of the world have used their imaginations. They think ahead and create their mental picture, and they go to work materializing that picture in all its details, filling in here, adding a little there, altering this bit and that bit, but steadily building, steadily building.

-Robert Collier

www.legendarytales.com

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Yeah, I guess it's basically only important for a programmer to have these things a bit in the back of one's mind. Often solutions and ways to realize things form in the course of time, so it's mainly necessary to be aware of them to develop in a certain direction in preparation for possible unavoidable changes/adjustments later on.

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

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