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Kanga
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« on: 14 July 2001, 11:01:00 »

hi there and good day to all of you,
im going to work with many of you to create a balanced game, my primary task these next days will be to create a regular hit/ac/dam system which can be integrated into the alpha, from there more serios consideration about this system will be made, for now im going to make a basic system to determine damage based upon ac, weapon, skills & stats, i will integrate any miscellanous factors i might find during my travels in the system  when im done with it, i will post it so you can take a view of it and come up with a great deal of ideas on how to improve and/or make good changes to it. i hope to get a good cooperation with all of you  

Background :
well im one of those nasty gamers that have been around for ages now, i started out with games on C64 (like a hell of others  for about 11-12 years ago) since then ive been in every type of gaming you can mention, from browserbased & mudz (Sorren & Avatar among others) to more actiongames like Quake & Unreal Tournament, i currently lead a clan in Unreal Tournament which is supposed to be in the top of that same game  during my time as a gamer i have developed quite a few strategies to almost any kind of games, many of em have been accepted by the top and many people come to ask me whether a strat is good or not before they post it  ive been in Online Gaming for about 5 years, mostly playing games like Sorren & Unreal Tournament, but i have been active in the Diablo world as well, ive made a strategy (in the beginning when D2 came out) that even today is used by the top necros of D2 (even after the expansion after what ive heard). if you have been active in the gaming enviroment i wouldnt been surprised if you knew my name from somewhere (Althrough i would like to point out that im not the same Kanga as from Utopia, but ive played Utopia as well and many strats that ive made have been accepted with open arms) besides the actually gaming experience i have actually made a modified 2nd/3rd Skillsystem which is used by 7 GM`s of my hometown, i run regular opdates on it but mostly only to prevent some rules to misused. one of the things ive leard while being a gamer is that if you want to catch peoples attension for months & years, you need the game to be so balanced as its possible, that will be my primary task as stated before so i hope that you will come up with good ideas to help it keeping being balanced  

and in the end ive got a couple of questions for you to answer as well as you can, i would like to c a reason as well for your oppinion, perhaps it can make you realize sumthing new as well  

1. How many hits do the toughest beast in the entire game need to do on a player before he dies? (this player is the "best" char possible, meaning Absolut max hp, Absolut max ac & Absolut max damage for a playerchar )

2. How many hits do the same player need to do before he kills that same beast?

3. anyway im curios.. do you think wizards run spellcheckers?  

this is the 3 question i need to get answered to get going  
i hope you can answer em good  ;)  

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #1 on: 14 July 2001, 11:45:00 »

Hello again, Kanga (we've met already on ICQ)! Nice to see you at the Forum too... Hope we can help you answering all of your questions concerning the RPG statistics. Not all here may be experts on RPGs, but we'll try our best.

I would say that we should try to follow an existing role playing game example, which works quite well, and try to develop things more or less in this direction. I personally think of the latest RPG game I played, which is "Gothic" from Piranha Bytes. Fantastic game BTW. I have a link to a (german) page somewhere presenting the monsters quite well: gothic.gomp.net/info/monster.html - Hitpoints of the monsters can be found under the term "Energie". Monster with highest amount of hit points is e.g. a Troll with 1000 hit points.

Gothic has a system which works with certain resistences, which we maybe should consider also. This way skeletons e.g. can't be wounded much by arrows and a Fireball will not really hit a Fire Golem.

ad 1) Maximum hit points of the player character should be around (or exactly) 500 I'd say (while the a monster has a max. of 1000). Much more weren't possible in Gothic either.

Armour Class (AC): Well, in AD&D there is a range from -10 to +10 methinks, so maybe we should try to habe approx. 20 or 25 armor classed too, but somehow the armour you wear should have special advantages and disadvantages (vs Fire +10 etc.)

Absolut max damage a player can do with one hit: Hmmm... Quite difficult. I'd propose around 80-100, not more, otherwise the game may become to easy.

ad 2) Best char vs. best beast: 15 successfull hits (but of course not every attack will hit the beast...)

ad 3) Wizards & Spellecheckers: If they're using Word on a computer somewhere hidden in their towers - why not? *grin*

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #2 on: 19 July 2001, 14:54:00 »

Okay. I'm wondering. What exactly do the armor numbers mean. If the positive is the best defense, then how exactly do you have negative defense? Does the armor attract arrows and throwing daggers and the like??? Confused!

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #3 on: 20 July 2001, 11:41:00 »

AD&D is a bit strange and I don't know exactly why they have such a strange system. +10 is in fact the weakest armour, -10 is best, no idea why. You could in the same way have a scale from 0 to 20 and 20 is best. Maybe AD&D has in mind that a normally armoured man has an AC of 0, if he is better armed than normal it is -1, -2 etc., if not is it +1, +2 and the player gets penalties when he is hit by a sword.

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #4 on: 20 July 2001, 13:09:00 »

Okay, but to cut down on a bit of confusion, I think that wearing no armor should be an AC of 0, and whether we go up or down from there doesn't really matter. (Maybe they did that to make the math easier. But that doesn't really make sense anyway. People don't go around wearing "normal" armor all of the time.)

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Kanga
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« Reply #5 on: 22 July 2001, 05:14:00 »

well ive been looking at some other systems for damage/armor/tohit and generally they do it a bit different then this but its the same allover, but ive tried to come up with sumthing that aint exactly ripping any game of their ideas.

if you find any of it be interferring with your own ideas or you perhaps have a solution that works better in the long run, lets take a look on it, i have tried to do a bit like muds but let me hear your ideas if you got anything you wish to share ;)

the figures is more or less guidelines, we can enhance everything just by multiplying with 1.5 (or whatever you wish)´if you want the numbers to sound of more. also i might be wrong with the importance of each factor that determines damage. just give me some input :=)))

(which reminds me, nate, how will you handle weapons with range? if any of coz)

-------------------------------------------------------
Plate Armor Type Defence Calculation. (DC-PAT =))

Armorclass : 000-100 - (Armor Absorbs Damage (not magical althrough, i will incorporate sumthing that can absorb magical : damage as well althrough im not sure of how precisely)), the system is based a bit on skills that havent been : made yet but they are neccessary skills or abilities if Nate wants armor/damage based upon absorbing still?!?!
-------------        -------------------
skill                : 000-010
perhaps a skill that makes player even better at wearing a armor whether its a plate or a leatherarmor?
stat                : 000-010
items        : 000-050
        Armor        : 000-012
            Magic : 6
        Helmet        : 000-004
            Magic : 2
        Shield        : 000-006
            Magic : 3
        Boots        : 000-001
            Magic : 1
        Gloves        : 000-001
            Magic : 1
        Ring#1        : 000-000
            Magic : 3
        Ring#2        : 000-000
            Magic : 3
        Amulet  : 000-000
            Magic : 2
        Cape        : 000-001
            Magic : 2
blessing        : 000-020
        some kind of extra blessing you can(t) get... dunno perhaps a temp.blessing by a GM?, you know the kind of bonus that
        is given at christmas & other hollidays in muds/ultima online/others. perhaps you can buy 10 of em at the tempel for a
        short period of time.
Magic         : 000-010
common priest spells in AD&D to increase armorclass.

Translation of my notes + understanding it ;) )
Skill is if there is gonna be skill(s) that makes people wear their armor better.
     
Stats i plan on different types of defence, dependin on the type of armor you are wearing.
     
items is a bit more complicated, ehh the types listed represent the possibilities of where defence can be put, am i right artidor? i might have missed sumthing coz i made the list out of my memory of what you stated some days ago.below each itemtype there is a magic number.. the number represent the max magic defence that could be put in that itemtype + the items normal defence. the normal defence can be seen just right to the its name as well as its min. ive written 000 as the min, coz thats what it would be without a armor. 001 would so be catagorized as a very low defence giving armor ;)

-------------------------------------------------------
Suggestions to Skills (due to the combat system) :
a skill that allows some kind of dodging while wearing plate armor  perhaps upto 08% dodging
a skill that allows some kind of dodging while wearing chain armor perhaps upto 17% dodging if no plate armors is being worn.
a skill that allows some kind of dodging while wearing leather armor perhaps upto 35% dodging if no metal armors is being worn.
a skill that allows people to wear their armor better.
a skill that determines how well you hit opponents, based upon % chances would be a good idea i guess. start at 30% goto 80%

this is the start for a pretty advanced combat system, it features a plate armor system or anyway my suggestion of how it could work, i will work with introducing more and more in combination with this. im going backwards more or less i know but this is the basic guidelines that people stated... there cant be much changes in how much a neklace FX could mean purely thinking of defence. i figure i will work with 3-4 different types of defence, None, Leather, Chain & Plate. from there i will go further on to integrating the magicdam into the systems.

the more suggestions you come with the better.

copy from a .txt =/ dosent look that good i know =/

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #6 on: 22 July 2001, 10:37:00 »

Looks all very well thought up and workable, Kanga! So the maximum AC will be 100, 50 of it you can get e.g. with wearing items. Maximum armor will add +18 to AC, right (+12 e.g. plate mail and +6 becaue it is enchanted to the maximum)?

Well, I guess we have reached a point now where we should start to accumulate such tables in a Game menu on the site, eh? This way others can see our progress here too and ihe pages will serve as a good reference point... Mayhaps we should also set up first skill tables and attributes (together with descriptions) etc. to be put into this section?

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Kanga
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« Reply #7 on: 23 July 2001, 22:31:00 »

yes precisely as you said.

yeah wouldnt be that bad at all, ive figured an idea concerning stats althrough it might be too hard to do but i will wait with posting until the actually thread is here concerning it.

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SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #8 on: 24 July 2001, 13:53:00 »

So add a Sorren section to the site and start recording. Now where's a handy scribe when you need one? (Sorren should probably copy the page and add it to their site or put a link to our site's info.)

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #9 on: 24 July 2001, 14:02:00 »

Have to discuss this with Nate in more detail in order to decide where what has to be placed.

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Nate of Sorren
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« Reply #10 on: 30 July 2001, 08:37:00 »

Our existing player base is not going to be the same players who play the 3d rpg.  I at least hope not.  I will on the otherhand take advantage of my resources and traffic to swap advertising with other companies etc in order to gain more players who are interested in the 3d rpg.

I have created a sorren forum about the rpg and I'm hoping that those serious about developing and testing have already contacted art or I.  I have been talkign with a couple of programmers last month who are seeming to be more dependable then many in the past have been.

I have been drawing things out a bit with them to make sure they are keepers before flying in head first.  It's often harder to pick up a project from someone else than to just do the whole thing yourself.  which in this case is impossible becuase of the complexity and size of the project.

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SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #11 on: 31 July 2001, 10:09:00 »

Well, I'm definately not a programmer, but sure am full of ideas that YOU get to incorporate if you like them and if they're feasible. Lucky you. I'm also going to start a thread called general suggestions and maybe a questions one. Reply about questions, please. I might be able to get a programmer to contact you. One of my friends, but I'm not quite sure how experienced he is. Oh well, should be some help.

Another thing: Where did you get the name Sorren? Becuase I know someone whose name IS Soren. Very close. And he's a computer programmer. Just an odd little coincidence.

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Nate of Sorren
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« Reply #12 on: 02 August 2001, 06:30:00 »

It came from an old irc chatroom password about 10 years ago.  A friend of mine and I ran it.

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SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #13 on: 02 August 2001, 20:07:00 »

Oh. So you dusted it off and put it into good use. You get a gold star for recycling.

Stormcrow

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