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Author Topic: skill sets  (Read 6225 times)
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Xenos Ravenbeack
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« on: 12 July 2001, 23:59:00 »

OKay I had this idea while playing startcraft...


normally in RPGS we're forced to use char classes... which although nice restrict the charecter originality and such...

however I have a better idea here we go...

the player first selects his race(orc/elf/human/browwnii)

then selects his nationality(R'unorian, santharian, etc.)

player sets eye/hair/skin color, gender, body type, hair lenth etc.(those available determined by the first two steps above to an extent)

then he selects there skill sets*

Picks a few bits starting equipment

starts the game
================
* ahhh yes skillsets... the jewl in my idea

okay here it goes. the player gets xps but no levels(xps should be gotten by time playing not killing stuff IMO) instead the xps are used to "buy" available skills that work in a sort of tech tree.

the sets themselves are the just that.. sets of skills that can be gained, to have a new skill you have to have its preequisits. most of the time it will be in a set such as you need to have a traking skill and a silent movement skill to get a camofalge skill... although some realy special skills need stuff from two diffrent sets lets say you have a stunning neck pinch skill from an unarmed combat set and an ice magic type set skill.. like a cold-orb or somthing... if you have both you could be alowed to get a skill that alows you to touch an enimy and freez him... if not killing him imideatly at least immobalizing him


just an idea

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Torek Ozzot
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« Reply #1 on: 13 July 2001, 08:36:00 »

Hey, that's a good idea. Its Kinda like in fft (Final Fantasy Tactics) but you should break down the different areas that the skills are in. Like you would gain exp. in combat for fighting, magic skills by reading tomes and using spells. You could take it really far and break things down even by making divisions within the division. Like in combat, you could have unarmed, and then all kinds of skills in unarmed, and sword, then all kinds of sword skills. That would be hard to do, but real cool if you pulled it off.

The Tec tree would like this I guess

Combat---------Unarmed------skills
                                           I----unarmed&Sword combo
                      Swords-------skills
                                            I---Sword&axe combo
                       Axes---------skills
                       (Etc)

The only thing is how far you take the skills? How many types of skills can you have? I still like the idea though...


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Greybark
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« Reply #2 on: 13 July 2001, 21:09:00 »

Age of Empires does this fairly well too, I guess......

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Xenos Ravenbeack
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« Reply #3 on: 14 July 2001, 00:06:00 »

Okay there could be 5 set catagories

Magic

Combat

Sceince

Stealth/Tracking

Misc Rp related skills(singing cooking etc.)

Combat and misc will be manitory catagories(you have to select a skill set from them)

now anyone can swing a sword around but skills could get you advanced moves and better damage. also cool unarmed stuff
==============

now lets use combat as an example three sets in combat might be

***

Unarmed Martial Disiplin

Swordmanship

Thrown Weapons

***

And for magic we might have things like this

***

Wind Magic

Fire Magic

Water Magic

Earth Magic

Life Magic

Death Magic

Ice/Cold Magic

Alchemy

***

now lets say you had Ice magic and alchemy Sets, also you had throw weapons and improvational weapons. using a skill requiring A spell in the Ice set, like toch of frost and a sikil in alchemy that lets you make an explosive you can get a skill called cold bomb. noy once you make such a grenade you could youse a skill in thrown weapons and a skill in improvational wepons lets you get a skill to throw objects in your inventory at people/monsters now then you could use that skill to throw you cold Bomb and poof. there you have it

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Greybark
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« Reply #4 on: 14 July 2001, 02:38:00 »

2 suggestions:

We should probably ask Nate what he thinks.

What about also having race-specific skills? Things learned easily by a certain race, but learned  with great difficulty, if at all, by others. (IMO life magic should be in this category)

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Nate of Sorren
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« Reply #5 on: 14 July 2001, 06:16:00 »

I have thought about this quite a bit.  I'm a bit scared of races in the frist version.  I'm going to design the game using a 3 tier architecture.

datastore
processinglogic
userinterface

The userinterface is the program that you actually use to play the game.  I plan on making a different user interface for each race.  So it will be similar to a different game.

but since the processinglogic is stored on another set of servers that part and the datastore won't have to be recreated.

I don't want a hack and slash game.  Or I want to design pieces of the game that attracts the hack and slash players to the same area.  Therefore I don't think it's a good idea to make any skill sets mandatory.  That includes combat ones.

I think that when a player is created they should be able to choose 3 skills that they will be able to learn at 2 times the normal rate, but all skills will still be learnable.  The class will not determine what they are good at.  Their best skills will determine their class so their class can change.

I like how UO handles increasing skills through using that particular skill.  With a few changes of course to prevent the uo macro issue.

Each skill has a max level which increases with practice.  The actual skill level decreases with use and increases over time to reach the max.  Chance of max skill level increase is modified by the actual skill level.

I think this would give players who use their skills naturally while playing a better increase and make macroing useless.

Any thoughts are welcome.  The above is how I vision it heading but it's definately not set in stone.

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #6 on: 14 July 2001, 12:16:00 »

Different interfaces for different races sounds fine (liked that very much in "Starcraft"). But of course you can't do everything at once.

So you will not determine from the beginning if you're a fighter or a mage etc.? Sounds good this way, gives the player much more possibilities. Always liked those open RPGs.

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Kanga
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« Reply #7 on: 14 July 2001, 13:00:00 »

well opening for all skills will be a nightmare figuring out which that is worth it and which that isnt, lets say that you open up for different areas of fighting/magic/common, lets say that each player have to pic one domain within each of these 3 areas, lets say Fx

Fighting :
Sword & Shield - or whatever that is common in uderza
Oriental - katana`s etc
Archery - bows etc
more to come

Magic :
Wind/Air Magic
Fire Magic
Water/Ice Magic
Earth Magic
Xeuá-Magic

Common
Royal - recognice different weaponshields etc
Academic - bookbinding etc
Peasentry - farming etc
more to come

now im just a new player making myself a char and i decide to go with Oriental + Xeuá-Magic+ Royal, then it would be quite easy to create a background story based on those choices, it would be close to impossible to random develop a background for a player if he has access to all skills, the RPG element in making that common choice would be good to any player as well, like he can feel what kind of char he has made now instead of just a startout char that everyone gets, it opens up possibility for the experienced player as well as the n00bi.

besides the 3 choices that he can make there is a basic survival area where he cant pick anything but has been given all the neccessary skills to survive (cooking, fire building etc)

it would be easy to incorporate some kind of skill tree and perhaps with goodwill of an GM it might be possible to get rid of 1 domain and get another or perhaps its possible to buy a Clearance in the temple? (only letting the common area be there after all you cant change your birth without creating a new char, but you can change the way you fight and the type of magic you cast) any lost xp in a area could be regained by regaining it through the standard way (my guess is that we will have to put some kind of a max on the xp as UO has done on their stats)

althrough it would definitly look as a ripoff to Diablo2 hehe but so would Xp thingy ;=)  

Edited by: Kanga at: 7/14/01 12:53:55 pm
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #8 on: 15 July 2001, 00:30:00 »

Just a short correction: We will have magics of all four elemental kinds, but instead of Life/Death Magic this type of Magic should be called Xeuá-Magic. This is the spiritual magic, the so-called "Connecting Principle", thus also connecting especially Life and Death. Just had to point that out in order to stick to already elaborated Santharian principles.

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Greybark
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« Reply #9 on: 15 July 2001, 01:49:00 »

....as opposed to the Life Magic used by brownies, which borrows a bit from the other schools, and is unique in that it doesn't drain the user.....

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SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #10 on: 19 July 2001, 15:18:00 »

Science skill set doesn't exactly make sense. Here's how I see it.

Magic (Obvious)
Combat (Swordsmanship, etc.)
Survival (tracking, fire-building, edible plants, etc.)
Entertainment (Singing, instrument-playing, gymnastics, etc)
Knowledge (Languages, flags, geography, etc.)
Labor (Harvesting, cleaning, etc.)
Thieves (Pickpocketing, lockpicking, climbing, etc.)
Other (Things that don't exactly fit into any category)
And others that I can't think of at the time.
Also, some things might fit into more than one category.
e.g edible plants requires knowlege as well.

If there is a limit on skills, it should be very high, or be linked to other stats.

Stormcrow

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #11 on: 20 July 2001, 11:36:00 »

I also propose an "Ancient Lore" skill. The higher, the easier one can identify artifacts. This skill may also help e.g. to lead a powerful sword even better and make more damage with it.

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #12 on: 20 July 2001, 13:11:00 »

Ah, so you say when you see some old relic laying in a dragon cave, "Oh! I need that, its a sword that'll make my attacks twice as powerful!" Instead of, "What the heck is that? Oh well, I'll just leave it: it looks rusty anyway."

Good idea, Art.

Stormcrow

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Langston B Hummings
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« Reply #13 on: 22 July 2001, 01:37:00 »

Skills increase over time if successful use.  but at the same rate.. so that a macro-er who successfully uses a skill 10 times per (delta time) gains at the same rate as the person who uses the skill legitimately 1 time per (delta time).  Therefore skill increase will directly relate to time in game but one would still only be gaining skill if he actually used it.. A secondary modifier to increase  chance of skill gain should be the base scores of the prerequisite skills as well as the prerequisite abilities.

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Nate of Sorren
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« Reply #14 on: 30 July 2001, 07:59:00 »

With skillsets I like the idea of flexability.  Some skills may be easier then others for some classes.  But the class is determined by the skill.  The skills need to be determined by the players behavior.

Functionally maybe something like this...

Creating a gain table that might look something like this...

heroID, statID, UsedCounter

1, 1, 10
1, 2, 12
1, 3, 7
2, 1, 9
2, 3, 10

Then at the end of say 1 hour. we can have it find the top 2 used stats of all players currently on.  And then execute a formula on them for stat gain.

maybe like (statmax-statvalue)/10000=statgain

delete all stat records from the gains table where the player isn't currently on.

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