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Author Topic: Proposal mail: Pedophilia in Santharia?  (Read 9163 times)
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Wren
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« Reply #15 on: 30 October 2001, 18:56:00 »

err... If Art's Dala's clueless cub....wouldn't that be incest. That's illegal too!. I think I'm going to shut up now. Too much thought!

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Dala Valannia
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« Reply #16 on: 30 October 2001, 20:07:00 »

Yes, let's not go into the incest thing, puhleeze! The pedophilia issue is squicky enough as it is!! :eek  

However, I do like Art best as my fluffy, fuzzy bunny in shining armour though ;)  

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Capher
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« Reply #17 on: 31 October 2001, 09:28:00 »

i saw that picture Dala :lol  

With deepest regards,Capher

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I live to but to serve my Goddess Seyella and Talon Hawke; son, heir and Wizard of the White Tower-defender of the lands and peoples of Caelereth!
Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #18 on: 31 October 2001, 13:04:00 »

Ok, I decided to give a simply reply to Greencrystal. Guess that's effective enough:

"The whole team has unanimously decided that your pedophilic ideas will not find their way into the Santharian Dream."

Best wishes,
Artimidor"

Already got an answer (sounding a bit more reasonable), but I don't intend to respond to this one:

"It's ok. I was just wondering.
So, in that case, what are you doing about slavers? Or do they not exist at all on the Santharian Dream?
The scope of the Santharian dream can be seriously expanded..WITHOUT the "pedophilic" ideas.
And ideas are ideas..it is a Dream. Our reality does not have to collide with the Santharian Dream.
A request: Please do look in other directions..it can't be all milk and honey..people will simply get bored and tired.
And it would be an interesting way to introduce the race of Faeries..the Sword of Fury Life could belong to the head of the Faery clan. And the Faery could be inexplicably evil. Interesting twist, and you need twists in every good story.
And I know my stuff. i am a good writer, a bloody good one, in fact. I'm pretty confident of the magic i can create.
Anyway, it's for you to think about.
But nevermind, I got the feeling that your door of reason is now closed.
take care,
Greencrystal"

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Wren
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« Reply #19 on: 31 October 2001, 13:19:00 »

OK and I thought I was crazy! But at least I can hide behind my addiction to wine gum colourings. He probably is a very good writer. He just scares me a little. Expand our view? I'm a bit concerned about exactly what he means. I've always made every effort to make my characters real, with real weakness and failings. Bad things do happen in Santharia. I would have thought that 3 wars were bad enough! But I feel that the bad things that happen need too strike people on a personal level without going too deep - that just makes people uncomfortable. Santharia ultimatly is supposed to be fun.

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Dala Valannia
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« Reply #20 on: 31 October 2001, 22:17:00 »

Oh God, not one of those 'Life isn't a bed of roses so neither should fantasy realms be either'. What a prick :b   I agree with what Wren said, bad things happens naturally and war is bad enough as they come. Plus the subject of rape is something that Capher is tackling with as well in his stories so who says it's all milk and honey here?? The difference between Greencrystal's idea and our idea of pedophilia is that he seems to want to make it into a positive thing with pretty under-aged boys running around with magical talents and sleeping with their older male masters which they profess to love with undying devotion. I don't think people will get bored and tired if they read stuff like that, they'll probably just bombard Art with hate-mail if he allowed the idea into Santharia!

Imo, the issue of pedophilia can be allowed within Santharia, but in the context that it is wrong and not something to be glorified or glossed over. David Eddings wrote about pedophilia in some of his books and usually those pedophiles died in horrible ways at the hands of his heros. Good. If punishment doesn't fall upon those who prey upon the innocent in real life, at least we can do it in fantasy.

.....ok, sorry, I'm going to put my flaming sword of justice away and just STOP babbling....why do I do this to myself....?? :rolleyes  

Edited by: Dala Valannia at: 10/31/01 4:22:07 am
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #21 on: 01 November 2001, 12:47:00 »

Well, I personally guess that being a bit humble about your own writing efforts can never be wrong. So if someone says that he/she/it is "bloddy good" then I'm not so sure about it. Like it better when e.g. Dalá says that "this chapter probably isn't very good", cause then I know that this will be something to look forward too:)

Concerning "bad sides" in Santharia: That's ok. "Bad sides" have to be part of fantasy worlds to make the world believeable. E.g. we've discussed slave trading in Santharia as well and I guess such ideas are essential to have, but it makes a big difference if you describe slave trading (or pedophilia in this case) as part of the world or if you agree with such principles in our real world and try to realize such fantasies at the site. There are several fantasy realms where slaves are part of the world concept and as far as I know the german role playing world of Aventurien (Realms of Arkania in English) also features pedophilic ideas in certain ways. They are embedded in a general world concept (or in a concept of a certain region of the world) and thus make sense in this particular situation. But if these topics aren't handled very carefully you might get a completely wrong impression, and this is what we have to avoid at all costs.

One more word to pedophilia in general: When studying philosophy and finishing my final work about the "Aesthetic of Existence" (aesthical principles dominating ethical believes in existence) part of my work had to deal with the development of sexuality in our society and about its ethics and/or aesthetics. One of the most renown contemporary philosophers, Michel Foucault (who was gay BTW), examined the sexuality of ancient Greeks in this context. As a matter of fact pedophilia was common during this time, so there indeed were times/places when such habits were legal. However, Foucault analyzed this pretty thorougly, and to make it short: Pedophilia was a form of ethical/aesthetical way of life in ancient Greek times, where ethics and aesthetics represented the same thing. Unlike nowadays perhaps (well, at least I guess so from what I hear here), pedophilia had not much to do with things of the "flesh". It was a way of scholars tutoring youths in philosophical ideas, ideas of the good and the beautiful (see Plato's and Sokrates' concepts), where the physical part of this "love of ideas" only prepared the youths for higher things. Well, that's the very, very short version of it. Only wanted to mention that here. That's all I know about it, but I thought it might serve as a bit of general information concerning this topic.

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #22 on: 02 November 2001, 13:53:00 »

I'm just wondering but were the students of such Philosopher's not already much older?!? With 15 or 16 a boy was considered nearly adult so I would think that is different from Pedophilia.

Don't want to stress this topic. I just wondered.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #23 on: 02 November 2001, 14:06:00 »

As far as I understood Foucault, these were "youths", definitely no "boys" or even children, but I guess these youths were at least older than 14 or so and did it willingly - they were not slaves, but educated people. The topic is also much more complex, so it can't really be compared with something you would call pedophilia today.

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Greybark
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« Reply #24 on: 03 November 2001, 01:27:00 »

Still not something I would like to see either repeated or focused on in modern society.

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Elienta
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« Reply #25 on: 03 November 2001, 18:44:00 »

*blinks* whoa, I just found this topic... I can't believe I missed out on all the fun! *pouts*

I agree whole-heartedly with everyone else... realism is all very well, but I think this is taking a bit too far. Besides, as I always argue in my literature classes, realism does not necessarily equal ugly. Pine forests are just as real as pigsties.

Life is a dream from which we all must wake.

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #26 on: 04 November 2001, 03:46:00 »

I agree, Greybark.

But with 15 you were rendered adult in ancient times. Also the stance of the Old Greek towards homosexuality was different. I think they saw it as the strongest bound two men can have.
The Spartanians even favourized it in some way and even Alexander the Great is said to have such relations with his most trusted friends. You can't compare it with modern, puritan(;) ) standards!

Nevertheless this is in the wrong thread, I guess.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #27 on: 04 November 2001, 06:26:00 »

Yup, it was indeed more considered as a consequent way of friendship than of what we would call "sexuality".

BTW: According to Foucault's "archeology of wisdom" as he called it, "sexuality" changed a lot during the course of time and a new paradigma was set during the 19th century when the talking about the things of the flesh began pre-dominating the things of the acts of the flesh. It was also mainly during this time that sexuality finally turned "evil" (that's the rough version of Foucault's theses).

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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Wren
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« Reply #28 on: 04 November 2001, 06:42:00 »

Points taken, but I look at myself at 15 and wonder exactly how much I knew about my own sexuality and whether I knew exactly what I wanted and the answer is definetly no. Too many hormones flying about. :)  I suppose it just comes down to when you think you are old enough to make a reasoned decision. I don't think 15 is old enough.  

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Dawn Mist of Myth
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« Reply #29 on: 15 November 2001, 13:06:00 »

I hope that I am not out of line posting here. I truly feel the need to let you know how I felt when I came across this post.  First let me tell you how I came to the Realm of Santaria.  My son found this site and thought I would enjoy it along with him, something we could share.  He was totally correct.  When I came along this posting my heart began to sink and I was afraid that we had joined into something that was becoming sick and perverted.  I am glad that I had the patience to read the WHOLE thing and see that it sickened the rest of you as much as it did me.  I do understand why Art posted the request.  It makes me feel good to know that my son and I are apart of something that trys to be real with out the true sickness of the world.  Reality is something we have to live with in our everyday world, it is not something I want to be apart of in a fantasy land.  Once again let me reneterate how good it makes me feel to know that you are guarding the gates from the fiends of this world.

"See the Tree in the seed, The rainbow in the storm, and the frost in the sunset."

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