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Author Topic: The Order of the Wings  (Read 8337 times)
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #15 on: 30 June 2006, 14:37:00 »

Hey guys!

I'm finally at ease about my grade (kind of. I have to redo two exams, everything else was :number1  ), so I'll be taking care of these comments tomorrow, I think. If not, it'll be for monday. But soon, I promise :)

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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #16 on: 11 August 2006, 05:50:13 »

OK, so it wasn't all that soon. I got to working on it again today though. To keep you guys posted on what I'm doing, and to reassure Talia: I'm working out a new way of getting the gryphs to partner with a girl, and I'm writing that out. Also, I thought up a name of the Leaders of the Order (Askerim) and the leaders of the units (Noleri) and I changed those. As soon as I'm done writing everything concerning the partnering out, I will edit my post here.

Thanks for understanding the delay, but I am working on it now ;)

Irid
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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #17 on: 11 August 2006, 19:53:48 »

Jeuj, triple post  shocked

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I changed the things that I said I would change in my last post.

I await all comments! But I'll understand if it's for after the Santhmoot  grin

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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #18 on: 12 August 2006, 05:24:57 »

Yep, due to Santhmoot a detailed check might take a while - but thanks for the update :) - Maybe you could colour the changed passages if you still know where they are? Makes checking easier.
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #19 on: 12 August 2006, 19:18:48 »

Ok, everything that I changed is now purple. Unless I forgot that I changed it, but I should have most now ;)

I hope Santhmoot is fun!
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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #20 on: 15 August 2006, 02:56:15 »

Quote
Territory
The Order of the Wings is located in the Rimmerin’s Ring. The buildings of the members are on the higher reaches, to make the gryphs feel at home. They also own some fertile lands lower down, to provide the members with food. These are taken care of by farmer’s who are not members, but who are paid by the Order. How does the order make money to pay these farmers?
Members
In the first instance, the decision to become member of the Order is not the girl’s to make, but her parents’. When an Eyelian family has a daughter after a first-born son, when the bloodline is secured, they will sometimes decide to bring her to the Order. Being a member is a very prestigious, and it is therefore a great honour if the girl is accepted by the Askerim.
When the girls are five, their parents bring them to the Order’s quarters in the Rimmerin’s Ring. The majority of these new starters are Eyelian, but other tribes are accepted as well. Cases have even been known of elves joining, but this is truly rare. The last elfess that joined had died in battle so many years ago that she started to become a legend, and after her no other elf was accepted. I suggest making in complete legend that elves were accepted, for i do not see this logically working. The elves mature slower than humans do, so it's possible that teachers die before the elf is completely trained. All the elf's friends would also have 'graduated' before she finished as well. I jsut do not see this working logically without elven trainers. Each year, about ten to twenty girls join the Order.
In the first year of their joining, they are already given a young gryph to care for, one that is too young to look for a partner. This teaches the girls a sense of responsibility very early in life. When there are more gryphs than girls, older members will take care of them.
For about two to three years, the girls receive a general training, in geography, history, and so on. There is also time for play, either with the gryphs with already tamed gryphs? I thought they had to tame their own. or with each other, to teach them to be part of the group.

Love the entry Irid, keep up the good work :)
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« Reply #21 on: 22 August 2006, 06:20:57 »

It's finally my turn to take a closer look :)

- The Askerim you mention for the very first time now in the first paragraph of the Members section. At this point the reader has no idea who they are. So maybe add a short explanation there. Same with the "Noleri" a bit further down.

- Regarding the terms "Askerim", "Noleri" etc.: During Santhmoot we started developing tribe name conventions. We haven't completely finished with the Eyelians, but this would be a perfect opportunity to apply such general rules. I quote from what we have so far for reference (still to be expanded!). The following is loosely constructed from existing Eyelian names and will determine the appearance of new names:

EYELIANS
 General: e'e, a'a, i'i, a'ei (between vowels), e'am, ł (l striken thru Ascii: 0142),  ø (Ascii: 0248)
 Wolf Clans - ending ... -el
 Bear Clans - ending ... -qu
 Eagle Clans - ending ... -ouf
 Start of words: B, E, G, M, T, W, Z
 Not allowed in words at all: D, X
 
 Secondary Name Rules: ...
 
 Males: -lgor, -thir, -e'en, - ai'er
 Examples:  Be'algor, Talgor, E'algor, Taranthir, Ga'eithir, Mea'olgor, Wai'enea'isthir, Zaerve'ai'er
 
 Females: -al, -ala
 Examples: Ilee'ala
 
 Wat'a'kan or the "Great Spirits"
 Talgor Eye'el
 Quianta - capitol
 Yourth, Quia, Eyelia

- "elfess" I guess isn't correct English, let's say "female elf"

- Strange construction here: "To find out of they have is not a simple matter"

- "Eyelian lands": Here you should be careful not to speak of "Eyelian lands", because Eyelia doesn't exist anymore and the tribes have mingled with each other quite a bit. There are now provinces in Santharia, which have little to do with old Eyelia.

- I've read the changes basically now, so I'm not sure what you mention now precisely about the the Order's integration in Santharian society. Guess itr's still missing a bit, so a few lines in this respect would help ;)

- I like all the changes you made, Irid! :D Just as we discussed back then, this seems to be a new, much better approach then the last one with another focus, and it is well written.  So after the Brownie clans we get another important entry up dealing with a group of people, something which has been neglected anyway quite a bit lately. - Bravo!  clap2

- History doesn't necessarily need to be added right now, could also be added later, no problem.
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #22 on: 22 August 2006, 19:43:15 »

Thank you very much for the comments, my dear mentor and dear pikel. The changes I have made because of them are marked in green. If it's hard to read in between all the yellow, I'll change it to a more flashy colour. Or take away the yellow, which is also a possibility.

Anyway, these are the changes that I made.

Pikel's comments: -the first paragraph doesn't say they tame their own gryphs anymore, but that they and the gryphs have partnered.
-elves are not allowed to join. Ever. ;)
-The farms are taken care of by the girls as part of their chores. I also added another example of chores. By the way, I do know that Gryphs wouldn't exactly live in stables, but what would you guys call it? I'm not sure what to call the place where the gryphs reside.

Aside from that, I still need something with which the order receives some money, as they still have to pay the blacksmith, the cooks and the baker. Maybe that's a job for those men who have married a member of the Order?

Arti's comments: -The Askerim and Noleri have a very short explanation. Tell me if it needs to be longer.
-there's no mention of an elfess anymore, see pikel's comments ;)
-the construction is changed. I hope it's clearer what I mean now.
-the history part is gone. I'll brainstorm about it a while longer.

Arti's comments that I didn't take care of yet:
-the names. It was a very long explanation, but that doesn't mean I understood much of it *grins*. Maybe if you could give some examples of what their title could be? (on a sidenote: they're not names, they're titles. But I get the point :p)
-The Eyelian lands: because I'm not sure what to put in its stead. I seem to recall your mentioning that another activity could be patrolling, but if they don't patroll eyelian lands, what do they patroll?
-The integration in Santharian society. Again, because I don't know for sure what you mean with this :)

Things I added myself are the two last parts in green. There are now some members who take the 'never-bed-a-man'-oath, and there are two versions of when the Order was founded.

Fhew. I'm finally done typing. I can go eat now *grins*

Irid
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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #23 on: 23 August 2006, 03:37:41 »

Nice further adjustments, Irird! Some more notes:

-Names
On the naming conventions: Well, what is mentioned in the "General" part are word parts which are very typical for Eyelians. Such things are:

e'e, a'a, i'i, a'ei (between vowels), e'am, ł (l striken through, Ascii: 0142),  ø (Ascii: 0248)

That's why we have names like Ilee'ala (e'e) in it or Eye'el (e'e as well),  Ga'eithir (a'ei).

Words typically start with  B, E, G, M, T, W, Z etc. We're not finished with concepting, but these ideas should give you rough guidelines.

If you look at the example the terms "Askerim" and "Noleri" don't really fit in, so it is recommended to adjust them and construct own words based on these very basic rules, even if you don't know the exact meaning. We'll refine this all a bit better later.

Suggestions would be e.g. Wa'eimalas. (W = often used capital letter, a'ei = often used word part, -ala typical female ending).

- Eyelian Lands/Integration in Santharian society
It's not Eyelia anymore, but the Santharian province of Manthria. They would patrol in Manthrian lands, e.g. protecting certain important key buildings or escort famous travellers so that they arrive safely. There's always trouble with bandits and rogues attacking people to rob them, or even armies of mercenaries could be hired for the one or the other fould reason. The Eyelians would have a place in here, being on the side of the Kingdom, and might even be funded by it. Additional money would be gained by taking on missions from various noblemen, courier services etc.

*points at signature* There a loose bold tag at the end!
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« Reply #24 on: 23 August 2006, 04:58:45 »

oh, ok, now I get it. I came up with Askerim and Noleri when I was on vacation, so I can be excused, right? I'll think up names for them tomorrow.

Aha, it's Manthria... Thank you for the ideas. I'll put that in, again, tomorrow ;).

yeeeeee, it's shaping up, isn't it :D

Irid
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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #25 on: 24 August 2006, 17:08:31 »

How is it now? Askerim are now Ma'eila and Noleri are Ge'elotas

I also added what you said about the Manthrian lands.
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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #26 on: 24 August 2006, 18:05:18 »

*off-topic*
Perhaps it'd be better to wait until we develop the language before trying to work out the names?  I'm especially concerned about the apostraphes.  Do they mean anything in the orthography?  If not, they should probably be left out. 
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #27 on: 24 August 2006, 18:55:53 »

*sigh* Now I'm confused   undecided

I thought (one of) the reason(s) that Arti thought 'Askerim' and 'Noleri' didn't fit was because there weren't any apostrophe's in them...

I think I'll just wait and see what my mentor says about them, but thanks for the note, Mina :)
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Irid al'Menie
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« Reply #28 on: 24 August 2006, 19:08:33 »

Um, my post was actually directed at Arti.  I suppose it's okay to leave the names in for now, as long as we can change them if future developments invalidate them. 
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« Reply #29 on: 24 August 2006, 19:31:33 »

As you can see how long it takes to develop a language with Styrásh - I'd say: Don't bother about the language right now at all. It's not really important to know what most certain syllables mean in order to give a culture an identity - besides, we mostly don't go even as far as syllables, but stick to certain letter combination. We know at certain tribes e.g. how to express nobility and other important stuff, that's good to have, and we have started on that - as far as we really need it. In my point of view having these general rules is extremely important to have, but doesn't need any development priority concerning the actual meanings. You wouldn't get done with finishing anything otherwise.

So all fine with me, Irid, don't worry - will have a closer look again on the final updates, then I guess it's ready for integration!  thumbup
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