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Author Topic: The White Advisor  (Read 21387 times)
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Decipher Ziron
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« on: 22 March 2006, 13:20:00 »

Dagon Fai'Ur's poem on the orcs inspired me to decipt another Nybelmarian race, the Light Humans. I don't know if this is any good as I'm no poet but I just thought it might make a nice contribution.



The White Advisor

The Grand-Karoth’s account of the time he spent admiring the Vizier of Light in awe of their magnificence.

Upon my throne I sit, a golden, glimmering thing,
Surrounded by my jesters, as they laugh, dance and sing,
In a room of marble, in great walls of stone,
Yet in the great white room, I sit, I am still alone,

Upon my throne I sit, surveying all my lands,
From the mountains and their snow, to the deserts and their sands,
I see all of their beauty, all of their grace,
Yet in the great white room, I sit, there is no smile on my face,

Upon my throne I sit, as my nerves slowly breaking,
The threat of war upon my land, rapidly awaking,
From each direction armies build, readying to attack,
While I am in the great white room, my forces fail, begin to fall back,

Upon my throne I sit, my empire ripping, at the seams,
And as I feel I have no hope, he appears, like a dream,
The figure, erupting elegance, enters the great room,
Whilst he suppresses the thoughts of my empire’s doom,

Upon my throne I sit, this strange being next me,
I look deep into his glassy eyes, and I begin to see,
His eyes whisper words of wisdom, as I stare at him,
And soon, miraculously, my future seems much less dim,

Upon my throne I sit, the robed figure leaves without saying a word,
Yet he knows, as he departs, that his advice has been heard,
Many times, with simple stares, he has saved my empire from despair,
That mysterious figure of moon white skin, and locks of blazing golden hair,

Upon my throne I sit, contemplating his silent words,
Hearing a whistle on the wind, with divine songs of gracious birds,
The room of pure white marble, a magnificent, beautiful place,
My White advisor has left me, with a smile on my face,





« Last Edit: 06 December 2006, 20:41:21 by Decipher Ziron » Logged

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #1 on: 23 March 2006, 11:28:00 »

In case you're wondering what he's talking about, here's an abstract on the "light humans":

The Orihirim
The only mundane importance of this isolated tribe to the Earth Empire is that an Orihirim adviser was present with the Grand-Karoth every hour of the day. Those who have been to the Grand-Karoth’s court attested that this mysterious “Vizier of Light” possessed an influence over the Emperor unparalleled even by his Grand-Vizier.

Everything else we know about the Orihirim stems from Emperor Dearan’s (2) account of the time he spent amidst the “light humans”. With all respect due to his distinguished person, we would also like to suggest if we cannot explicitly state that he may have cleverly utilized these tales of the Orihirim socio-political utopia as justification (and ruse?) for his world-shattering revolutions. Many Santharian scholars treat the Orihirim, often called “the light humans” (*alluding to “light elves”), as only a myth. This cynical attitude was perhaps fuelled by the intriguing fact that no one seemed to know the whereabouts of the tribe. No one (other than the Emperors themselves perhaps) has ever seen what they look like; even the Divan’s White Advisors always hid their identity under long, flowing hooded-robes. (2)  Further accounts tell us of how a white mist always swathed the ground the Light Vizier’s feet touched and how sometimes a celestial luminosity surrounded his figure. (3)

The Orihirim were believed to possess a perception and empathy beyond mortal facilities, endowing Orihirim mages, if one is to believe the myths still circulating the Zhunite shores, with powers far past legendary that used a magic unlike that of any other system on Nybelmar.


Notes:
1  He was the only outsider ever allowed into their mysterious realm in the six thousand years of history.

2  Some fanciful historians have even speculated that the White Advisors might actually have been the same person as there seemed to be something very similar in the way each moved and spoke. However the Compendium would like to dismiss these far-fetched theories, asserting once again the need to separate myth from knowledge empirically ascertainable. Indeed there seems to be something quite suspicious in the fact that the White Advisors have all been very consistent in disappearing as breath into the wind after the funeral of the Karoth they had watched over for so many years until the next coronation. We as rational Santharian scholars, led not by a religious hangover but the light of logic, would like to suggest that the Orihirim White Advisor, whoever he (she?) might be, makes great and careful use of this chaotic interlude to change with his successor.

3  Surely these can be nothing more than the work of a fanciful imagination spirited by the excitement of being in the presence of Nybelmar’s strongest persona (refers to the Grand-Karoth of the Great Empire of Earth not his fantasized Vizier of Light)…


If you are fascinated by this tribe - as you duely should be :P - more information on the Empire they live in can be found here.


As you see Decipher, I rarely miss a chance to advertise my entries :fish   No, just joking. Only tired from working on the same entry for months




Comments on the poem will follow tonight


EDIT: I feel exhausted. Would you mind terribly if I commented tomorrow perhaps?

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 3/22/06 20:46
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« Reply #2 on: 24 March 2006, 05:12:00 »

The poem very much reflects the concept I had for these enigmatic "Viziers of Light". So I'd say from the Nybelmarian perpective everything is fine. Maybe change the title to "The White Advisor" so the reference becomes clear at first glance and not just a generic adjective?

To comment properly on the language I need to carry the poem in my head for a few days... Also, you're best bet in receiving help with stylistic issues is consulting Judith, Alysse or Rayne.

Next time please also post at the Nybelmarian bell-ringing thread.

Good luck with your future entries!

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #3 on: 26 March 2006, 03:31:00 »

Thanks for you help, I will bellring you in the future. I have asked for 'poetry experts' to comment. Is that what you meant?

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« Reply #4 on: 27 March 2006, 07:29:00 »

Any poetry experts around?

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #5 on: 27 March 2006, 11:20:00 »

I'm typically a form poet, and I've also stepped away from critiquing poetry simply because it's such a subjective and personal art. I will point out one error:

Quote:
My advisor’s brilliance is infinite,
But their knowledge is sparsely shared,


their should be his or her. Your subject is singular, so your pronouns should be, too.

Hopefully someone else will stop by who can be of more assistance.

EDIT: All right, because no one else has really stepped in, I'm going to critique this poem as it would be critiqued by a stylist.

My comments in this color.

The greatest question (what question? At the very start there's confusion about what's going on--there are a lot of great questions out there.) they arise, (You use a strange sort of syntax that doesn't seem to work too well. Plus, people don't really "arise" questions--they pose questions or raise questions, but not arise)
Yet their splendour explains all, (What sort of splendour? Poetry is most effective when you leave out abstract nouns such as splendour. Perhaps you could put some concrete detail here.)
Their hidden culture (hidden culture seems a little bit too... plain for a tribe of humans that is said to be so incredible... perhaps elusive ...? You ponder it.) confuses (don't like this word... elavate your vocabulary... beguiles?) us,
Yet their eyes reveal every secret,
Their hooded robes disguise their form,
But their true magnificence (another abstract word) may not be hidden (you already used hidden before... in poetry, you typically want to avoid this sort of repetition--it tends to come across as sloppy),

Their radiant figure is razor sharp (I'm getting an image of a man shaped like a metalic knife. ow can a figure be sharp? The metaphor doesn't work here),
Yet their words are a gentle breeze (this is a bit of a cliche ex-pression--try to come up with something new... perhaps their words are like drops of rain or something?),
My advisor’s brilliance is infinite (this line is very abstract, and extremely confusing--you don't give anything concrete to hang on to.),
But their knowledge is sparsely (I'm not sure if you were trying for alliteration, but "sparsely" doesn't really word do to denotative problems... it would be more appropriate to say that their knowledge is rarely shared) shared,
The wisdom of the hooded vizier is unmatched by any (generalizations like this continue to remove the reader from the work),
Yet the fruits of their wisdom (you already used this word... again, this type of repetition is something you should stay away from) are not for us to reap (I actually happen to like this metaphor--perhaps you should try to extend it a bit),

The Vizier of Light illuminates all (again, a sweeping generalization that comes across as very confusing),
Yet shrouds the important (this is pretty vague, and very subjective) in shadow (shrouding in shadow is a rather cliche concept),
They reveal what I am required to know (This doesn't seem right. Required to know for what?),
But shan’t indulge me in my frivolous wishes (Can they grant wishes? Or only share knowledge?),
They know all and see all (again, generalizations, though this is a point where I think the greatest error comes in telling instead of showing, but I'll address this later),
Yet only unmask what we mortals can bear,
The creatures of purity,
The creatures of light, (this is the only time you use anaphora in the entire poem, and so when it comes, it feels sudden and unexpected. Also, "light" and "purity" are very abstract concepts.)
Reveal what is purposeful,
But still block our path (If you are going to use this metaphor, you need to make it applicable to the line before. Without some sort of unity, the metaphor doesn't work)

Until you send your poetry to an editor, this is the toughest critique you'll get (and this is the kind of critique I've had to withstand). I'm extremely rough, but I do think this poem needs some improvement. Now, I'm a form junkie, but when I say you should put this into some kind of form (sonnet, villanelle--anything with meter (and maybe rhyme)), I have good reason. Form provides the kind of unity you need in this poem, and creates the kind of balance you need when describing creatures of this sort. I think making sure your stanzas and lines are balanced will help a great deal.

This poem is written in a very general way. You use sweeping generalizations, decribing the race as a whole using some poetic language, but at its very core, it's a de*****ion of these people and not a powerful poem that elicits an emotional response. You writing the poem from the point of view of a guy who actually met them! You don't have to use generalizations, because your speaking from the point of view of a guy who has an empirical basis for his writing. Use his experience--maybe he's writing a poem about when he first encountered them. You need to find a place in time and space to set the poem, and in doing so, you'll be able to show instead of tell.

Getting something on paper is the first part, but I do think this poem needs a lot of revision. I'm sorry for being so harsh. I've done a lot of poetry in my day, and that's where I'm coming from. Good luck on this.

Edited by: Rayne Avalotus at: 3/27/06 6:45
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Decipher Ziron
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« Reply #6 on: 29 March 2006, 04:23:00 »

Rayne I rewrote the poem, I think I kind of distorted the message though. Is this still too generalised? I tried to use alot more specific adjectives this time.

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« Reply #7 on: 30 March 2006, 11:49:00 »

I'm not going to do a revision like I did last time (I just wrote an entry on oun that drained my mental faculties a little). I am going to tell you that I like that you have equal stanzas. They're not metered, but that's OK--meter is hard for most people, and I can't expect you to meter-ize something when you're not sure how it's done. You can pull off a good poem without it. The unfortunate part is that the rhyme comes across as forced--you obviously put a lot of effort into it, and it shows (which isn't a good thing). This is not uncommon. If it makes you feel any better I can pull out some poems I did years ago about love written with forced rhyme that would make you sick.

You need to make this a narrative--if we don't have a speaker to sympathize with, we loose interest in the message. You're eager to get the message across, I can tell, because you jump right into a description of the advisor. Widen your focus a little. Nature is extremely beautiful and would serve as the setting for this incredible meeting.

The forest thicket holds the gloom of twilight
and the calls of brilliant birds unknown to me
A darkness settles here, soft and sweet
like silent melodies...

Set the forest, set the situation, then enter the advisor--describe in them only what is worth describing--usually the face and eyes, as these tend to be the poignant features of any one be them gnome or light elf/human. You might describe them dressed in the trappings of moonlight or something. Then you can describe the knowledge they have yet resist giving.

It will help you to lengthen you lines a little, and not worry about rhyme. I think if you focus on description, you can make it work. You should NOT lose sight of your message, but you need to frame it appropriately. Does this make sense?


I'd also just like to comment on how much I admire your ability to take me (essentially) tearing into your poem and even go about editting in my suggestions to make it better. Most people would a) give up or b) throw something at me, then give up. You will improve greatly, not just here, but outside Santharia because you are willing and able to take criticism of your work and try to change it. I think if you stick with Santharia and listen to your mentor, you will not only become a member, but a thorough, creative, and valued contributor as well.

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #8 on: 02 April 2006, 07:25:00 »

I see, trying is good but letting others see you tried so blatantly is bad. It's good not to beat around but still not good to go straight into the description. You seem to have a profound knowledge of poetry Rayne.

PS: Thanks for the compliment and for all your help

BTW: I will need coren's advice on where the emperor would meet the advisor.

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« Reply #9 on: 02 April 2006, 15:10:00 »

What you have up right now is the third version, right? Could you also repost the first two under a single post so I can see what else could be added? I like the forest idea but I'll look also think about other possible settings and research some architectural styles to see if the building could be carried into a palace (just to give you some more descriptional details to play with).

I know I have been very quiet (valuable commentry-wise) but please do not misinterpret this as me ignoring you. I have little free time in my hands these weeks, but that is no excuse. I do however keep these two entries continously in contemplation through out the day (especially during commuting :p )

I keep repeating this because I feel so guilty!

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #10 on: 03 April 2006, 06:44:00 »

Moved here by Coren's request in order to have it all in one thread:

White Advisor 1st draft (FOR REFERENCE ONLY)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Hooded Advisor

The Grand-Karoth’s account of the time he spent admiring the Vizier of Light in awe of their magnificence.

The greatest question they arise,
Yet their splendour explains all,
Their hidden culture confuses us,
Yet their eyes reveal every secret,
Their hooded robes disguise their form,
But their true magnificence may not be hidden,

Their radiant figure is razor sharp,
Yet their words are a gentle breeze,
My advisor’s brilliance is infinite,
But their knowledge is sparsely shared,
The wisdom of the hooded vizier is unmatched by any,
Yet the fruits of their wisdom are not for us to reap,

The Vizier of Light illuminates all,
Yet shrouds the important in shadow,
They reveal what I am required to know,
But shan’t indulge me in my frivolous wishes,
They know all and see all,
Yet only unmask what we mortals can bear,
The creatures of purity,
The creatures of light,
Reveal what is purposeful,
But still block our path


White Advisor 2ND draft (FOR REFERENCE ONLY)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His endless pool of knowledge,
Is not for us to drink,
The radiance of his essence,
Can leave us only to think,
His mastery of his mind,
His mastery of our own,
Is magic to our mortal eyes,
Although he’s all alone,

The secretive advisor,
Hidden by his cloak,
Lacks all social contact,
And hides himself in smoke,
I count myself lucky,
For the wisdom he gives,
But I feel in my heart,
That the advice is not his,

I fear he only guides me,
For he feels so obligated,
Even though his wisdom,
Has left threats eliminated,
I worry that he is discontent,
The place that he is given,
Yet he never shows emotion,
For the solutions he has risen,

I long to bear a wisdom,
As great as my advisor’s,
My secret wishes though,
Must be hidden from my viziers,
They suspect always,
For they do not understand,
That my empire’s problems,
Have been solved by his hand,

To endless lists of secrets,
His mind holds the key,
Like where his people came from,
And why is he with me,
He enlightens me always,
Solving all the problems that I face,
He has always been there,
And is a credit to his race,


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« Reply #11 on: 04 April 2006, 10:12:00 »

Ah. We're getting closer and closer. I'm not going to edit the whole thing, just the first stanza, and discuss with you the problems I find. You, then, have to go through the poem and make the correct changes.

In a hall of beauty (This is an abstraction), a glorious (opinion) room of grace (what is a room of grace?),
I sit upon my throne, with a look upon my face,
A look of discontent, at the palace of which dwell,
A repetitive building of monotony (Abstraction), a tiresome living hell (Hell doesn't exist in Santharia),
The advisors that come to visit me, to force me into choices,
They aggravate my mortal frame, as I detest their voices,

You need to break away from abstractions. It's telling, not showing, and it adds an almost comical feel to the poem over all. If you're going to describe the room, describe it! Talk about the marble-sculpted buttresses, the richly-coloured paintings, the velvet curtains covering the arched windows. You need to show that it's beautiful and "graceful," not just say it is.

You make out the speaker to be almost spoiled, which in turn seems to tarnish or cast doubt on the light human. Perhaps you should have the speaker be tired, a-wearied of some decision that's been plaguing is mind, and the effect the stress has had on him. Then you introduce the light human as an advisor who brings, not just advise, but also comfort.

Avoid too much sentimentality, like "I hope to never part with him, until the day I die."

The rhyme isn't working well. It's hard to pull off good rhyme without almost perfect meter since the two tend to go hand in hand. I think you can pull off something natural by getting rid of the rhyme.

In order to make a good poem, you're going to have to trust your reader a little bit. This is a problem that has really pervaded in every draft you've done--you want to tell because you're afraid if you don't, the reader won't get it. Lines like "I trust the white advisor, for he is my closest friend," "He is possibly my greatest treasure, the pride of my keep," and "He is a higher a being, above even I" make this apparent. Do your best to show these things through your description of their interaction and not talk about it.

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #12 on: 28 May 2006, 03:55:00 »

Okay Rayne, how is this draft.

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« Reply #13 on: 09 June 2006, 10:39:00 »

Can you also include the last draft for reference?

Are you still around? If so, I need an email address from you (you im me the info through ezboard)

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"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
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« Reply #14 on: 11 July 2006, 05:40:00 »

Here it is Coren.

In a hall of beauty, a glorious room of grace,
I sit upon my throne, with a look upon my face,
A look of discontent, at the palace of which dwell,
A repetitive building of monotony, a tiresome living hell,
The advisors that come to visit me, to force me into choices,
They aggravate my mortal frame, as I detest their voices,

There is however one, who is not such a drain?
I have one advisor, that causes me no pain,
He respects my wishes, and receives no form of prize,
He is my the remover of a blindfold, that covers my eyes,
He appears exactly when he is needed, never early nor late,
He seems to express no emotion, not any love or any hate,

His enigmatic eyes, watery and grey,
Allow me a feeble insight, into his peculiar ways,
Yet they still hide something, a secret of some kind,
As if he has the power, to conceal parts of mind,
The empathy his eyes provide, with a single gaze,
Is enough to throw simple our minds, into a flurry of haze,

The insight my advisor honours me with, the knowledge he presents,
Gives me a sense security, whilst unknowing his intent,
I trust the white advisor, for he is my closest friend,
Yet the mystery of his being,  Is knowledge he shan’t lend,
I must give myself assurance, that he has nothing hidden,
Yet of thoughts of betrayal, my mind is not yet ridden,

I feel a gracious wave of bliss, when he speaks into my ear,
A feeling of enlightenment, that rids me of my fear,
He is possibly my greatest treasure, the pride of my keep,
Yet the fruits of my advisor’s wisdom are not for us to reap,
I trust him with my empire, I trust him with life,
I know now that I should banish thoughts, of betrayal and of strife,

He informs me of events, unbeknown to me,
Yet he hides that of true importance, from where I can see,
The mystery of my advisor, Is the greatest in all of krath,
Yet I feel it pointless, to subject him to my wrath,
He is a higher a being, above even I,
I hope to never part with him, until the day I die,

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